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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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People often elude to the things the world can do to the US to irrevocably harm our economy/people/nation. China calling in its debts, Oil being backed in something other than dollars, the US dollar being removed from its spot as the world reserve currency...
and yet, our military might remains as a machiavellian reminder that such things will not come to pass.
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Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: memes]
#14906944 - 08/11/11 03:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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very true. unfortunately, the military is being used to strong-arm others into staying in the fraudulent paper ponzi, against their own best interests. saddam was one of the first to ask for euros for his oil... look what happened soon after....
ghaddafi wanted to set up an african currency based on trading oil for gold... what happened to his country as well...
i am wondering how long the rest of the world will accept such strong-arm tactics.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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AkhenAton
Stranger

Registered: 08/09/11
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14906984 - 08/11/11 03:14 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said: how do you think we might be able to escape our current system of servitude? or will the constant erosion of liberties, to gain greater control, continue unabated until we wake up with shackles already bound to us?
will the elite allow the population to reject the very monetary system that robs them of their productivity and binds them via suretyship?
or will we get strapped in with increasingly more draconian control?
The first question is very complex and and I cannot address it here as I fear exhausting the concepts involved will take away what this particular thread was designed for. But maybe at another time. One alternative is to create your own nation, with your own charter and go to the UN and sign a peace treaty with the entities and become eligible for a charitable trust known as a RES-ervation. you have the right to self determination and that is about all.
In addition, since there is a national debt, there are no freehold estates, so as long as you live on the lord's, i.e. creditors land, and his watchdogs, agents i.e. government, have a duty to bash your head in when you don't follow the lords rules.
First people need to become more knowledgeable about what kind of system they are operating and its ALL under the old law forms, which are heavily coded in law today. thats why its called code. its so much legalese and jargon that it deserves its own thread.But bottom line is Fed RES-erve notes are trust funds, and as long as you use those trust funds a whole heap of liabilities come along with it.
Back to Real Estate Definitions 'T' Trust res
A property which is the subject of a trust.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopica03.pdf
Who are the parties to a trust?, Continued Property Alternative names for the property transferred to the trust are the: Capital Corpus Estate Principal Res
Edited by AkhenAton (08/11/11 03:20 PM)
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Yrat
Hello

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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: AkhenAton]
#14908078 - 08/11/11 07:19 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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petrodollar discussion towards the end
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I wasn't born yesterday. That stupidity has been batted around for decades.
Commodities have existed as money at least since the beginning of recorded history.
I am perplexed as to how this continues to be your intellectual blind spot.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Mr.Al]
#14921221 - 08/14/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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So has inflation. I am perplexed as to how this continues to be your intellectual blind spot.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Cuz he's Mr. Al ---- thast why i have had him on nignore for the past 3 years. (I can see the Re: Mr. Al in your post -- the only reason i know wtf yer talkin about)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Posts: 81,741
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Mr.Al]
#14921331 - 08/14/11 03:17 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I wasn't born yesterday. That stupidity has been batted around for decades.
Commodities have existed as money at least since the beginning of recorded history.
I am perplexed as to how this continues to be your intellectual blind spot.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I wasn't born yesterday. That stupidity has been batted around for decades.
Commodities have existed as money at least since the beginning of recorded history.
I am perplexed as to how this continues to be your intellectual blind spot.
The central planners have been distorting the American economy since 1913. An examination of history proves that fiat money is prone to self destruction through inflation. I can see that there will be a transition away from using the F.R.N.s due to the moral economic hazards inherent in the present monetary system.
An inflationary monetary system hurts the poor and middle class the most. The present monetary system fosters the development of a greater gap between the exceedingly wealthy and average income folk.
Inflation pays off for those who gain the initial purchasing opportunity utilizing the newly created fiat money. The new money initially has the same purchasing power of the money that was already circulating. This is the same morality and effect of the counterfeiter who robs people of the value of their money by watering down the money supply.
When the federal reserve is a net buyer of T-Bills they are monetizing debt.
I'm sure you've noticed that when a credit agency that rates sovereign debt downgrades a country's credit rating it is usually a late indication of a problem...
Edited by Mr.Al (08/14/11 10:42 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Mr.Al]
#14925041 - 08/15/11 09:48 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would say that having government debt that is about 100% of the GDP is a bit of a credits problem. Especially since the only plan is to continue to raise it. Further, when they downgraded the rating what did investors (not just the Fed) do? They bought T-Bills.
There is very little inflation, Al. The gap between rich and poor did not grow because the poor were making less than they had before.
You see a lot of things, Al. You've been seeing them for some time. Put your smart money where your smart mouth is and get rich.
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HarveyWalbanger
Demiurge


Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14933256 - 08/16/11 06:30 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said: under a gold standard, money supply does increase with population and productivity, at about a 2% increase per year... coincidentally, about the rate of a healthily growing economy. even if it doesn't, however, wealth will not diminish, because prices will deflate and reward those who produce and save, instead of our current system that rewards debtors and punishes savers. the ability to save and safely store capital is the only solid foundation to any economy, and you are arguing against this fact.
I'll argue that fact. ..Gold does not occur naturally on earth. It was all produced from various supernova nucleosynthesis processes and deposited here during the late heavy bombardment, which is why it's rare on earth. It is, however extremely common in space.
Take the asteroid 433 Eros for example. On January 31, 2012; it will pass by earth 16,600,000 miles away (only about 70 times the distance from the moon. Well worth the reward). In it rests atleast 5.6 trillion dollars of gold, and several trillion more dollars of other precious and common metals. That one rock has more precious metal than has ever been mined in the history of earth... what do you suppose doubling the earth's supply of gold would do to inflation?
..and if we mined a second asteroid? Psht, The price of gold would never see the light of day again. It'd be worth less than coal. (especially since coal is a far more useful and rare substance in the grand scheme of things) Your idea is held together entirely by the fact that it's rare on earth right now. It may not be forever.
Edited by HarveyWalbanger (08/16/11 11:33 PM)
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Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
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if the gold supply was increased by the massive amount of time, resources, labor, etc to mine a FUCKING ASTEROID, then i would say that the gold would rightfully represent some serious productivity and thus add appropriate value to the money supply.
your argument might hold some water if such a situation was feasible within the next couple hundred years, let alone the next couple dozen, but it is not.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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d0pe
It'll all make sense in time

Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 190
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14933779 - 08/16/11 08:20 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Rumor has it gold is the reason we were put here
-------------------- Shuttin the place down since 04
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Yrat
Hello

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Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: d0pe]
#14933815 - 08/16/11 08:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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the Sumerians were onto something
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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HarveyWalbanger
Demiurge


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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14933838 - 08/16/11 08:29 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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You didn't even touch the deflation part. You seem to think it'll symbolize a lot of productivity instead of making it as common as copper. (FWIW: copper and silver are far more industrially useful. Gold's only major use is coinage)
The idea it's worth something is based on an ancient perceived value, and people's belief in it's rarity. It's simply not that rare, or useful of a substance.
Edited by HarveyWalbanger (08/17/11 01:21 AM)
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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But if and when civilization collapses, the local warlord will likely want gold to advertise his power. That is its usefulness, that is the reason to horde it.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: DieCommie]
#14933921 - 08/16/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: But if and when civilization collapses, the local warlord will likely want gold to advertise his power. That is its usefulness, that is the reason to horde it.
I think weapons would come more in handy if that were the case. Having a valuable resource without the means to defend it against a warlord doesn't sound like a very pleasant proposition.
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Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Quote:
HarveyWalbanger said: You didn't even touch the deflation part. You seem to think it'll symbolize a lot of productivity instead of making it as common as copper.
The idea it's worth something is based on an ancient perceived value and it's rarity. It's simply not that rare, or useful of a substance.
you seemed to miss my interpretation that your proposal is entirely impossible and thus your point utterly irrelevant. your tortured hypothetical scenario is completely meaningless.
call me when we gain the ability to MINE A FUCKING ASTEROID.
by then, i'm sure the market would have settled on a more efficient medium of exchange than gold anyway. i'm just saying, allow it the freedom to evolve by removing legal tender laws.
free markets always settle on the greatest efficiency. the market for media of exchange is no different.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: But if and when civilization collapses, the local warlord will likely want gold to advertise his power. That is its usefulness, that is the reason to horde it.
I think weapons would come more in handy if that were the case. Having a valuable resource without the means to defend it against a warlord doesn't sound like a very pleasant proposition.
Yea, you gotta be smart about it. But you dont have to trade it to the warlord to get value out of it, you only have to agree with others that some warlord somewhere near by would want it. Then you can trade it with your fellow non-warlords.
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HarveyWalbanger
Demiurge


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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14934161 - 08/16/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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You're rather prone to theatrics, aren't you? ...I can just picture you jumping up and down screaming "MINE A FUCKING ASTEROID" and "it's totally impossible" because it's the only thing propping your argument up (that you believe it's totally unfeasible to produce more gold); But then casually saying if it ever does happen we'll just use something else. As if you have the power to suddenly change the rules on everyone just because it may endanger the crummy store of value you want to use.
If your going to fix a problem, fucking fix it. You don't switch to a currency that is potentially worthless, and assume we'll fix it in the future.
Edited by HarveyWalbanger (08/17/11 01:22 AM)
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