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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14890331 - 08/08/11 01:28 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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haha I promise i think better of you. i PROMISE. i just wanted to clarify, because all those other times where fiat money was tried failed, it was controlled directly by the politicians running the government.
in this case, we have a quasi-independent body with individual mandates, more-or-less immune from teh whims of the currently-elected-politicians.
perfect system? definitely not. best of the rest? i think so.
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AkhenAton
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14902993 - 08/10/11 07:05 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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the currency IS backed by a commodity...human labor... specifically and literally
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Yrat
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: AkhenAton]
#14903381 - 08/10/11 08:09 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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meh, dollars are backed more by oil that anything else. surely you know about the petrodollar?
as long as saudi arabia continues to accept dollars for oil, the world will continue to run on dollars. the question is, how long will this relationship last. the saudi royals are undoubtedly concerned about accepting ever more devalued paper for their exported energy. they will want a change soon.
after all, any country that ponders taking payment for oil in anything other than dollars gets a swift kick in the ass via invasion and war, see iraq and libya for prime examples...
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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memes
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14903561 - 08/10/11 08:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said: the saudi royals are undoubtedly concerned about accepting ever more devalued paper for their exported energy.
Oh wait, how did the House of Saud come to power? Thtas right, America.
They won't leave us, worry not.
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Yrat
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: memes]
#14903603 - 08/10/11 08:49 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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they will leave as soon as there is a more lucrative offer. it won't be long. they know they are currently getting the short end of the deal. there's also the question of whether or not they can remain the largest oil exporter for much longer... how long until reserves start drying up?
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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AkhenAton
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14903606 - 08/10/11 08:50 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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no i'm talking about the dollar itself is backed by labor via suretyship. the bonds that are issued to get the dollars printed in the first place, have human labor backing them
Edited by AkhenAton (08/10/11 08:52 PM)
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zappaisgod
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14905491 - 08/11/11 09:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said: they will leave as soon as there is a more lucrative offer.
As soon as the downgrade was announced people fled stocks and moved into Treasuries. Who do you think is more lucrative? Europe? China? Puhleeeze.Quote:
it won't be long. they know they are currently getting the short end of the deal. there's also the question of whether or not they can remain the largest oil exporter for much longer... how long until reserves start drying up?
And when they are no longer a huge exporter of oil who will give a fuck? I say we drink their milkshake all up as fast as we can so we can stop giving caring about them.
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: And when they are no longer a huge exporter of oil who will give a fuck?
lol i didnt even think of this. very true.
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Yrat
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Yrat said: it won't be long. they know they are currently getting the short end of the deal. there's also the question of whether or not they can remain the largest oil exporter for much longer... how long until reserves start drying up?
And when they are no longer a huge exporter of oil who will give a fuck? I say we drink their milkshake all up as fast as we can so we can stop giving caring about them.
right... that's exactly my point... or are you not following?
the saudis have a deal to take paper dollars for their oil. since they are the #1 producer out there, essentially all oil is traded for dollars globally (dollars backed by oil = petrodollar).. BUT if they lose this top spot, i'm not sure that the next biggest producers in line have made that same deal to accept paper dollars...
see what i'm saying? if the dollar is backed up primarily by oil trading (read: energy supplying the global economy), and then loses that backing... poof.
if saudi arabia can no longer support the petrodollar, other suppliers will probably want something else in exchange for their tangible goods.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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Yrat
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: AkhenAton] 1
#14905976 - 08/11/11 11:47 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
AkhenAton said: no i'm talking about the dollar itself is backed by labor via suretyship. the bonds that are issued to get the dollars printed in the first place, have human labor backing them
i think i know where you are going with this, and am interested. elaborate, please.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14906327 - 08/11/11 01:05 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm no expert on Saudi oil stocks, but I think by the time theirs depletes to an insubstantial number, alternative energies would be more prevolent in our global economy. Already shale extraction is leading to vast new cache's here in North America natural gas reserves --- not to mention the global stores that will be available.
Remember, as the price of oil rises, the relative attractiveness of alternative measures become ever-greater. It is not cost that is relevant, but relative cost.
http://www.economist.com/node/21525381
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: memes]
#14906333 - 08/11/11 01:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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And we still haven't figured out efficient means of utilizing the sun's energies. Eventually these will be realized, and the results, enormous.
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AkhenAton
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14906532 - 08/11/11 01:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
Quote:
AkhenAton said: no i'm talking about the dollar itself is backed by labor via suretyship. the bonds that are issued to get the dollars printed in the first place, have human labor backing them
i think i know where you are going with this, and am interested. elaborate, please.
are you familiar with suretyship? in ancient times, and even til today a person could pledge the future labor of someone else in the form of services due or to be performed placing them into bondage and servitude. in feudalism, those in the lower levels of the feud would pledge homage and fealty to the lord and the estate in the form of security. under marxist capitalism, the number one commodity is labor..
what is the collateral backing the bonds that treasury pledges to the federal reserve? what is a constitutor, accomodation party, peonage, and what is the duty that a surety have to perform for its principal?
http://indianpcpals.com/dictionary/legal/C/Constitutor.htm
Constitutor
Constitutor
Civil law. He who promised by a simple pact to pay the debt of another; and this is always a principal obligation.
Bouvier Law Dictionary 1856
CONSTITUTOR, civil law. He who promised by a simple pact to pay the debt of another; and this is always a principal obligation. Inst. 4, 6, 9.
Accommodation Party Also found in: Dictionary/thesaurus, Financial, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia
One who signs a Commercial Paper for the purpose of lending his or her name and credit to another party to the document—the accommodated party—to help that party obtain a loan or an extension of credit.
A person wanting to obtain a car loan, for example, may offer a finance company a promissory note for the amount of the requested loan, promising to repay the amount over a number of years. If the company does not consider the person a good credit risk (one who will be able to repay the loan), it will request that someone else sign the note to ensure that the company will be repaid. Such a person may be an accommodation endorser, because he or she endorses the note after it has been completed, or an accommodation maker, because he or she must sign the note with the accommodation party.
An accommodation party is liable to the person or business that extended credit to the
accommodation party, but not to the accommodated party. The accommodation party is liable for the amount specified on the accommodation paper. If an accommodation party repays the debt, he or she can seek reimbursement from the accommodated party.
US Constitution 14th Amendment Amendment XIV
Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Did you know that the only reason the US has money is because it extends credit over to the Fed Reserve in the form of bonds. So what is backing the bonds? It seems that the US is the guarantor/principal and the labor of the people have become sureties i.e. constitutors who cannot question the public debt...
Edited by AkhenAton (08/11/11 01:56 PM)
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AkhenAton
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: AkhenAton]
#14906623 - 08/11/11 02:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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did you know there were penalties for being in debt and never paying, or not having the ability to pay due to insolvency? the estates are under civil death under law merchant and have no equity and become corps under the law...what happens when you go to a restaurant, eat and cannot pay the bills? you work it off..
Peonage
A condition of enforced servitude by which a person is restrained of his or her liberty and compelled to labor in payment of some debt or obligation.
Further indentured servitude, because an indenture is any securities outstanding, like bonds or the like. stock, controlling rights.. security.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/usc_sec_15_00000077-ccc000-.html
TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 2A > SUBCHAPTER III > § 77ccc
§ 77ccc. Definitions
When used in this subchapter, unless the context otherwise requires—
(7) The term “indenture” means any mortgage, deed of trust, trust or other indenture, or similar instrument or agreement (including any supplement or amendment to any of the foregoing), under which securities are outstanding or are to be issued, whether or not any property, real or personal, is, or is to be, pledged, mortgaged, assigned, or conveyed thereunder.
Edited by AkhenAton (08/11/11 02:07 PM)
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Yrat
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: AkhenAton]
#14906695 - 08/11/11 02:18 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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how do you think we might be able to escape our current system of servitude? or will the constant erosion of liberties, to gain greater control, continue unabated until we wake up with shackles already bound to us?
will the elite allow the population to reject the very monetary system that robs them of their productivity and binds them via suretyship?
or will we get strapped in with increasingly more draconian control?
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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zappaisgod
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14906696 - 08/11/11 02:18 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Yrat said: it won't be long. they know they are currently getting the short end of the deal. there's also the question of whether or not they can remain the largest oil exporter for much longer... how long until reserves start drying up?
And when they are no longer a huge exporter of oil who will give a fuck? I say we drink their milkshake all up as fast as we can so we can stop giving caring about them.
right... that's exactly my point... or are you not following?
the saudis have a deal to take paper dollars for their oil. since they are the #1 producer out there, essentially all oil is traded for dollars globally (dollars backed by oil = petrodollar).. BUT if they lose this top spot, i'm not sure that the next biggest producers in line have made that same deal to accept paper dollars...
see what i'm saying? if the dollar is backed up primarily by oil trading (read: energy supplying the global economy), and then loses that backing... poof.
if saudi arabia can no longer support the petrodollar, other suppliers will probably want something else in exchange for their tangible goods.
The dollar is not backed up primarily by oil trading Petrodollar? This is why I discount most of what you say. It is part and parcel of the deranged and discredited alarmist nitwittery I have heard my whole life.
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14906711 - 08/11/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: It is part and parcel of the deranged and discredited alarmist nitwittery I have heard my whole life.
As proof:
Quote:
Yrat said: how do you think we might be able to escape our current system of servitude? or will the constant erosion of liberties, to gain greater control, continue unabated until we wake up with shackles already bound to us?
will the elite allow the population to reject the very monetary system that robs them of their productivity and binds them via suretyship?
or will we get strapped in with increasingly more draconian control?
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Yrat
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: memes]
#14906731 - 08/11/11 02:23 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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i am interested AkhenAton's answers, that is all.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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Yrat
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Yrat said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Yrat said: it won't be long. they know they are currently getting the short end of the deal. there's also the question of whether or not they can remain the largest oil exporter for much longer... how long until reserves start drying up?
And when they are no longer a huge exporter of oil who will give a fuck? I say we drink their milkshake all up as fast as we can so we can stop giving caring about them.
right... that's exactly my point... or are you not following?
the saudis have a deal to take paper dollars for their oil. since they are the #1 producer out there, essentially all oil is traded for dollars globally (dollars backed by oil = petrodollar).. BUT if they lose this top spot, i'm not sure that the next biggest producers in line have made that same deal to accept paper dollars...
see what i'm saying? if the dollar is backed up primarily by oil trading (read: energy supplying the global economy), and then loses that backing... poof.
if saudi arabia can no longer support the petrodollar, other suppliers will probably want something else in exchange for their tangible goods.
The dollar is not backed up primarily by oil trading Petrodollar? This is why I discount most of what you say. It is part and parcel of the deranged and discredited alarmist nitwittery I have heard my whole life.
do a little research on the petrodollar before you discount it so quickly. it would do you well.
energy is what runs the world. we can spout off about alternative energy all we want, but nothing comes close to oil right now, and nothing will for a very long time. energy runs the world. saudi arabia exports most of the worlds energy. they accept dollars in return for help in building up their country's infrastructure out of a barren desert. after the trade, dollars = oil energy. as soon as they dont want them anymore, $$$s won't buy anything at all.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
Edited by Yrat (08/11/11 02:33 PM)
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zappaisgod
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Re: It was all a lie. [Re: Yrat]
#14906749 - 08/11/11 02:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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I wasn't born yesterday. That stupidity has been batted around for decades.
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