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Offline4896744
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: Silversoul]
    #14870601 - 08/04/11 05:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
You seems unable to distinguish between territory and property, and your accusations of cherry-picking make no sense.  Private property is exactly what is at stake here, not territory.




Private property is just a term we give to territory that multiple people agree to recognize. It is beneficial for multiple parties to be able to hold territory that isn't constantly disputed.


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Offline4896744
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14870609 - 08/04/11 05:22 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

iThink said:
:ahahaha: I'm sure it has everything to do with aliens and nothing to do with people profiting from a free market system.





Were talking about the origin's of the hierarchical relationship between the poor and the rich.

Not something occurring in our present era.

The bible was written thousands of years ago, so why did you think I was commenting on what is going on now.




What evidence do you have of aliens being responsible for the hierarchal relationship?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: 4896744]
    #14873468 - 08/04/11 07:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Private property is just a term we give to territory that multiple people agree to recognize. It is beneficial for multiple parties to be able to hold territory that isn't constantly disputed.



Not really, no.  Private property means not only the right to exclude, but the right to sell and to pass down.  Territory is more akin to personal space.  It makes no sense to say that nomadic hunter-gatherers had private property simply because the had territory, since that territory moved with them.  If their territory at any given point was "owned," then any future tribe that used that place as their territory after they'd moved on would be trespassing.  And by that logic, everyone on this planet would be trespassing on someone else's property.

And in any case, this ignores the point I brought up earlier:  A tribe's territory is the group's territory.  It doesn't belong to any individual.  Private property, by contrast, only makes sense as something within a society.  After all, how are people supposed to honor private property if they are not subject to the social norms of that society?  As I pointed out, even in early agricultural societies, land was owned by the community, not by individuals.  Even as late as the Middle Ages, people still had a concept of what is known as "the commons."  Under feudalism, a landlord was considered to have an obligation to their tenants, so that there was still some sense of reciprocity.  That pretty much began to change around the time of the Tudor dynasty in England with the enclosure movement, whereby land that was previously held in common was appropriated by private landlords, displacing multitudes of people.

Private property is a complex idea that was not simply there from the beginning.  It developed slowly over time as civilizations evolved and the mode of production changed.  Territory was inherently a collective idea for hunter-gatherers, and moved with the tribe.  Property began with agriculture, but even then it was communal property at first, and only very gradually did it become individualized.

Actually, I just thought of a good analogy for territory versus property:  The United States has a territory which, I'm guessing, includes the city you live in.  Does that mean that the federal government owns your land?


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: 4896744]
    #14874541 - 08/05/11 12:47 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

iThink said:
:ahahaha: I'm sure it has everything to do with aliens and nothing to do with people profiting from a free market system.





Were talking about the origin's of the hierarchical relationship between the poor and the rich.

Not something occurring in our present era.

The bible was written thousands of years ago, so why did you think I was commenting on what is going on now.




What evidence do you have of aliens being responsible for the hierarchal relationship?





To much, a lot of archaeological evidence.

The best of which is found in the Sumerian culture.

Look them up, they are sure to amaze an open mind.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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Offline4896744
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14874587 - 08/05/11 12:57 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I have looked into it and it looks like some straight up Jesus shit.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: 4896744]
    #14874887 - 08/05/11 02:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
I have looked into it and it looks like some straight up Jesus shit.




How exactly then did you explain the vast knowledge of the solar system that the sumerians possessed?


How did they know the color of uranus and that it has a twin planet?


--------------------
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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14875973 - 08/05/11 10:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

iThink said:
I have looked into it and it looks like some straight up Jesus shit.




How exactly then did you explain the vast knowledge of the solar system that the sumerians possessed?


How did they know the color of uranus and that it has a twin planet?





Hell man I know the color of uranus without even looking. :grin: (so please don't ask me to)

And of course there will be no records kept of all the times they were incorrect, right?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: Icelander]
    #14876777 - 08/05/11 02:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

iThink said:
I have looked into it and it looks like some straight up Jesus shit.




How exactly then did you explain the vast knowledge of the solar system that the sumerians possessed?


How did they know the color of uranus and that it has a twin planet?





Hell man I know the color of uranus without even looking. :grin: (so please don't ask me to)

And of course there will be no records kept of all the times they were incorrect, right?





They were hardly incorrect.

I don't think they ever were.

They knew the exact number of planets and their relative size.

You haven't really looked into it though, so how could we possibly argue.

It will just seem unlikely until you do, because it is pretty different to believe in alien intervention rather than evolution, especially because you've probably believed in this for so long.

:shrug:

If your not going to read the research its impossible to take you seriously.

It's the same attitude as the people who do not believe that the raw food diet and supplements can heal cancer and degenerative diseases.

It's to extreme and impossible of a claim to believe that fruits/veggies/greens/nuts can heal diseases without the need of our god 'the medical sciences'.

Yet how many people would be saying the same types as things as you in the same way.

Arguing that your beliefs are extreme and exaggerated without looking at the evidence.


Take a look at the evidence then tell me what you think.

Otherwise I cant take you seriously.

:cheers:


--------------------
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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14876834 - 08/05/11 03:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think they ever were.

Of course you don't.  Almost no one believes something they are invested in strongly can be incorrect.  But modern scientists are often incorrect.  Now how can I take you seriously when you makes such imo ignorant statements.

And I have looked into a lot of this for myself.  It was many years ago so I don't remember details but at the time I concluded that it could be possible but due to scanty evidence it was hardly a certainty so I let it go to pursue things I could find out about, like my own personal psychology. 

Don't assume you are the only one who ever had an interest in this.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: Icelander]
    #14877525 - 08/05/11 05:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You think a primitive culture that didn't even have a computer, was able to view the planets for specific traits such as colour, as scanty evidence?

:shrug:

Why would that be scanty?


--------------------
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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14877609 - 08/05/11 06:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Right scanty.  Why, because I don't know how they did it or if they did it. It would be pure speculation on my part.  I need more information to draw any type of firm conclusions. If I didn't I'd still be a Christian who visits my doctor for all my checkups.

Show me some alien technology that is beyond what we have. Show me a ship.  Show me a radio signal or other type of signal, show me an alien itself or something of that caliber and I'll concede your point. Until then it's an unknown in my book.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offline4896744
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14878508 - 08/05/11 09:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You think eating raw foods and supplements will cure cancer? What evidence do you have for this claim?


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: 4896744]
    #14878881 - 08/05/11 11:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Your idea of evidence is merely other people's takings on archaeological data.

It's like the people who look at hieroglyphs and see men in space ships wearing helmets and what not. From simple drawings/languages we can't understand, so many people say it's absolute proof that aliens came here when no proof actually exists.

Astrological knowledge? These people had much better views of the stars than we do today. They meticulously calculated star movements so they could have a reliable calendar, reliable 'clocks' without the hard technology we have today. Generation after generation of astrological knowledge would pass down. Aliens likely had nothing to do with it. Back then they had the time to do so, not to mention it was accumulated over thousands of years. Those who didn't know the movements of the stars planted their crops too late and starved.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: Icelander]
    #14879335 - 08/06/11 01:20 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Right scanty.  Why, because I don't know how they did it or if they did it. It would be pure speculation on my part.  I need more information to draw any type of firm conclusions. If I didn't I'd still be a Christian who visits my doctor for all my checkups.

Show me some alien technology that is beyond what we have. Show me a ship.  Show me a radio signal or other type of signal, show me an alien itself or something of that caliber and I'll concede your point. Until then it's an unknown in my book.





They have knowledge that signifies advanced technology.

How do you suppose they had this technology?

They themselves claim to have been given this knowledge from their 'gods'. They even states that they came from another planet.

:shrug:

I don't get it, how is knowledge WHICH REQUIRES ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY, NOT PROOF.

You have yet to explain how they came to this knowledge and I doubt that you will ever will now.

Until someone can prove to me that they got this information on their own, I will always factually believe that aliens is the only other possibility.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14879359 - 08/06/11 01:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

We have advanced technology. It isn't that far fetched to believe that humans 3000 years ago knew how to use electric batteries, knew how to switch water routes etc.

What other advanced technology do you mean?


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: PatrickKn]
    #14879370 - 08/06/11 01:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Your idea of evidence is merely other people's takings on archaeological data.

It's like the people who look at hieroglyphs and see men in space ships wearing helmets and what not. From simple drawings/languages we can't understand, so many people say it's absolute proof that aliens came here when no proof actually exists.

Astrological knowledge? These people had much better views of the stars than we do today. They meticulously calculated star movements so they could have a reliable calendar, reliable 'clocks' without the hard technology we have today. Generation after generation of astrological knowledge would pass down. Aliens likely had nothing to do with it. Back then they had the time to do so, not to mention it was accumulated over thousands of years. Those who didn't know the movements of the stars planted their crops too late and starved.





Zechariah Sitchin, the main interpreter of the ancient Sumerian texts in his 1975 book stated that the color of Uranus was light blueish-Green, for example.

We only discovered that the color of Uranus was IN FACT light blueish-green in 1976.


Now put two and two together.

This is proof that he wasn't simply interpreting hieroglyphics, but that the culture knew of this and other pieces of knowledge that would take advanced technology to achieve.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



Edited by AlphaFalfa (08/06/11 01:29 AM)


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: 4896744]
    #14879384 - 08/06/11 01:32 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
You think eating raw foods and supplements will cure cancer? What evidence do you have for this claim?



Quote:

iThink said:
You think eating raw foods and supplements will cure cancer? What evidence do you have for this claim?





What evidence do you need?

Scientific studies?

They haven't yet been done because of the vested interests of the wealthy elite in the pharmaceutical industry.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that exists which would suggest that it does.

Look all over the web to find it.

I've had personal experience with it, through acquaintances and family members.

If you want scientific proof, you would have to ask multinationals to fund research that would potentially put them out of bussiness.

So good luck with that.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14879409 - 08/06/11 01:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I stand corrected.

The first pictures of Uranus which the colors were first acknowledged were taken by voyager 2 in 1896.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



Edited by AlphaFalfa (08/06/11 01:41 AM)


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Offline4896744
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14879447 - 08/06/11 01:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

iThink said:
You think eating raw foods and supplements will cure cancer? What evidence do you have for this claim?



Quote:

iThink said:
You think eating raw foods and supplements will cure cancer? What evidence do you have for this claim?





What evidence do you need?

Scientific studies?

They haven't yet been done because of the vested interests of the wealthy elite in the pharmaceutical industry.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that exists which would suggest that it does.

Look all over the web to find it.

I've had personal experience with it, through acquaintances and family members.

If you want scientific proof, you would have to ask multinationals to fund research that would potentially put them out of bussiness.

So good luck with that.




There is no barrier to someone conducting an experiment on whether or not a raw food diet could cure cancer. Sure, the pharm companies may not fund such an experiment, but they aren't the only source of funds.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Furthering the claim that "The bible was written to control political rebellion" [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14879459 - 08/06/11 01:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Alright, but give me more. How does that point to aliens coming here at all? The Sumerians could have known about color spectrums from astrological distances just like we did in the 30's. What other technology?


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