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OfflineMitchnast
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letter to the editor
    #1484950 - 04/23/03 02:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

reguarding http://museum.gov.ns.ca/poison/pplant1.htm
the nova scotia museum of natural histories website is a joke when it comes to mushroom information. i wrote the author a letter today, here it is.

my name is Mitch and i live in Halifax, i just wanted to pass along to you that your information on the natural history museums guide to poisonous plant and fungi is grossly nonfactual in almost every aspect.
a few examples.... (and these should show that i specialize in ethnobotancals)
first of all Stropharia rugoso annulata is a gormet edible... you have it headlining a page of poisonous fungi.
"We in Nova Scotia have five categories of hallucinogenic "Shrooms": "

Panaeolus, Inocybe, psilocybe, gymnopilus. are what you SHOULD have, there are no hallucinogenic "Stropharia" genus mushrooms anywhere in the world.

also, ALL the mushrooms you posted are non-psychoactive (excluding amanita muscaria- more on that later)

and the photo of psilocybe pellucilosa is mis-identified. this speceis does NOT occur west of the rocky mountains and is not a "libery cap" the species in question is "psilocybe semilancaeta" a mushroom of which i can provide you with numerous photos of wild-collected specimens from Nova Scotia.
the mushrooms in said picture are unidentifiable, but appear to be psilocybe semiglobata, a non-active mushroom.

the photos of conocybe lacaeta you posted are NOT hallucinogenic. they are considered inedible and mildly toxic. panaeolus sphinctrinus (not sphinctrina)
and the separately labeled "panaeolus campatalanus"
are one species. the PROPER label for the later should be Panaeolus sphinctrinus var. Campatalanus
these are ALSO non-active.
some active mushrooms in nova Scotia I have PERSONALLY encountered are
panaeolus subbaltaetus
panaeolus castenifolius
panaeolus papillonaceus
panaeolus oliviaceus
panaeolus microsporus
gymnopilus spectabilus
gymnopilus purpuratis
Inocybe calamistrata
psilocybe semilancaeta
psilocybe strictipes
psilocybe spp. (unnamed)



I can provide you with original photos of ALL of these mushrooms, ALL from nova Scotia. all picked by me, if youed like to edit your site for accuracy.


"Fly Agaric: an alkaloid, muscarine, together with two other, less poisonous hallucinogens, muscimol and ibotenic acid. " is a misleading statement.
aminita muscaria has only TRACE ammounts of muscarine, which is more common in inocybe, clitocybe, and similar genera.
muscarine is a mushroom atropine, and is an antidote for true atropine poisoning from nightshades.
most importantly this is NOT a hallucinogenic mushroom, it is a somatic mushroom, an inebriant, nothing similar to the tryptamine effect of psylocybin.

"Scientific knowledge of these fungi is far from complete" depends of where you look, who you talk to, and what you read


"victims frequently require restraint and sedation until the effects wear off, to prevent them from injuring themselves or others."
simply a lie. there is no requirement for such a thing,
and the practice is uncommon.

"It is a criminal offence to gather, possess or sell any of them."
actually it is completely legal for nearly every mushroom you mentioned as only one (psilocybe pellucilosa) is a species containing a controlled substance. and it just so happens that it is legal to gather these (actual hallucinogenic) mushrooms, you may even eat them.
it is illegal to cultivate, process, distribute, preserve
or possess stored mushrooms.

you called amanitin "AMANITIN, A CYCLIC PEPTIDE" this should actually be "bicyclic octopeptide

now, i didn't read all through everything. but i DID notice you said "Misuse in herbal medicines or in an attempt to induce hallucinations is the most common problem with Jimsonweed. Its alkaloid toxins are related to those found in "Magic" Mushrooms, but they are potentially fatal. "

first off, there are NO similarities between compounds like Atropine, scopolomine, stramonium, etc, and "magic" mushroom compounds like psilocybin, pcilocin, and baeocytin.

jimsonweed and angels trumpet (or datura and burgmansia) are NOT hallucinogenic, the term is "Deleriant." there are important differences. for example, in anticholonergic delirium, you do not read from, or write to memory, you simply stumble around confused acting out terribly realistic scenarios or subconscious memories. you don't know what you are, who you are, or what the concept of anything is.

where as psilocybin tends to act more upon the mood and ego and senses, distorting time, distance, sound, smell, and even critical thinking. one might even say it enhances ones ability to think creatively.
possibly causing temporary delusions as profound weirdness. it is not however fatal in the quantity one could physically consume in dried mushrooms.


amanita muscaria is NOT something to call "a magic mushroom" this is a dangerous piece of misinformation, it is a poisonous mushroom, that one can poison ones self with on a sedating level if properly prepared, nausea is guaranteed.
the variety native to NS is Amanita Muscaria var. formosa. this is a yellow variety, practically useless as a somatic, but just as toxic (I've TRIED the preparations of BOTH variations)

Jimsonweed should not be consumed. ever. it is a terrible thing. i know MANY people who have, and I'm relieved to say none of them are dead, in fact death is ALOT rarer than advertised. but its a very dangerous plant, and very easy to find.

these are the plants/ fungi i read about, they are very misrepresented. factual information on a museum sponsored site would be more fitting.
this site has been up a long time and its the same old misinfo. is this something you still have the power to correct? i remember reading this when i was 17

thank you
Mitch


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Offlinecanid
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1485031 - 04/23/03 02:48 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

it's astounding how firmly soem people will hold onto dogmatic, incorect and dangerous information for the sake of tradition. it is inexcusable when it's done out of lazynes.

it's good that you took time to try and help. not enough people do that kind of thing.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: canid]
    #1485113 - 04/23/03 03:45 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

damn good letter you got there. keep us updated on what happens if the site is updated. good luck

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
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Offlinezeronio
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1485232 - 04/23/03 05:12 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Very good letter. It's amazing how many errors are there, from such an institution. :shocked:
I hope they will pay attention to this, but maybe it would be good to write personally to the author of these pages. 


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Anonymous

Re: letter to the editor [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1485540 - 04/23/03 11:08 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1485651 - 04/23/03 12:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

bravo! :laugh: 


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comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1489180 - 04/24/03 01:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Shit, just answered this post and it disappeared.

Here goes:

I have corrected the spelling typos:

Quote:

Panaeolus sphinctrinus (not sphinctrina)
and the separately labeled "Panaeolus campanulatus"
are one species following two distinct taxonomica pathways..

The PROPER label for the later should be:
Panaeolus sphinctrinus var. Campanulatus
and they are both non-active species.

Some active mushrooms in Nova Scotia I have PERSONALLY encountered are:

Panaeolus subbalteatus
Panaeolus castanifolius
Panaeolus papillonaceus
Panaeolus olivaceus
Panaeolus microsporus
Gymnopilus spectabilis
Gymnopilus purpuratus
Inocybe calamistrata (Mitchnast, this is not psychoactive)
Psilocybe semilanceata
Psilocybe strictipes
Psilocybe spp. (unnamed)




Regarding your comments on atropine in Amanita sp. This is not true.

Read below from Ott, Pharmacotheon, 1994. This has been disproven, as also has the Beserker story of Vikings and Amanitas.

Here is a short diatrite to the lack of atropine and bufotonine in Amanita muscaria and related species.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx

Mitchnast, interesting leter. Here are some corrections for you to make note of.

Mj

Quote:

In 1869, 2 German chemists published a book on the properties of muscarine, a toxic alkaloid they had isolated from Amanita muscaria. For almost a century, muscarine was believed to be the main toxic principle of the fly-agaric. This in spite of the marked difference between fly-agaric and muscarine intoxication. Muscarine causes profuse salivation, lachrymation and perspiration, and is not psychoactive. These symptoms of a stimulated nervous system are generally not seen in the fly-agaric inebriation. Moreover, the concentration of muscarine in European specimens of Amanita muscaria was shown to be quite low, only about 0.0003%, by no means high enough to account for the remarkable activity of this mushroom.

The problem wa complicated when Schmiedeberg (Schmiedeber & Koppe, 1869) isolated a base from a sample of commercial muscarine which counteracted the cardiac depression of muscarine. Since atropine and related alkaloids come from Atopa belladonna and the psychoactive Mandragora and Brugmanssia species; have this anti-muscarine effect, this new compound came to be called Pilzatropin ("mushroom atropine") or alternatively muscaradine. (it has also been called "myceto-atropine" and "mycoatropine"). Further confusion resulted when in 1955 it was reported that Pilzatopin was in fact an optical isomer of atropine, l,hyoscyamine, supposedly isolated from South Afican Amanita muscaria and Amanita ppanjtherina. To make matters yet more confusing, bufoitonine or 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltrypptamine was reported as an entheogenic principle of Amanita muscaria. Subseqquent work has failed to substaniate the presence of either l=hyoscyamnine or bufotonine in Amanita muscaria, and the evidence indicates that these reports were probably in error.

In 1964, the true entheogenic principles of the fly-agaric were isolated almost simultaneously in three laboratories--in Japan, England and Switaerland. These new compounds were isolated with the use of a fly-killing test, a fly-stunning test and a mouse-narcosis-potentiating test respectively. In 1967, international agreement was reached as to nomenclature, and the compounds were named ibotenic acid and muscimole (earlier called agarin or pantherine.

Ibotenic acid was found to be alpha-amoino-3-hydroxy-5isoxazole acetic acid; and muscimole its decarboxylation product 3-hydroxy-5-aminomethyl isoxazole.




XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

mj

Also What do you mean in your quote below?

Quote:

"It is a criminal offence to gather, possess or sell any of them."
actually it is completely legal for nearly every mushroom you mentioned as only one (Psilocybe pelliculosa) is a species containing a controlled substance."




Why would P. pelliculosa have a controlled substance when

Mj


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1490020 - 04/24/03 05:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

with reference to my claim that amanita muscaria contains trace ammounts of muscarine, that was in protest of the author of this sites claim that it was the princible alkaloid and muscimol and ibotenic acid are secondary, my premise was that if muscarine exists in aminita muscaria, it is in insignificant or trace ammounts, you know alot of people say the same thing about paneolus papillonaceus and psilocybin.  remember that mushroom i picked that pruised blue and you identified it as paneolus pappionaceus about a year and a half ago?  ive since heard you say its an inactive speceis and not actually a separate speseis from paneolus sphinctrinus. :wink:

now with reference to atropine in muscaria, well this author in question claimed that datura has chemicals related to those found in "magic mushrooms"
Muscarine is related to atropine and solocanae-related anticholinergics, in fact, muscarine is a cholinergic atropine. which is why it is an antidote to anticholinergic atropines such as those found in daturas and belladonas etc.

i basically used logic and assumed he meant its related to the chemicals in fly agaric, when really its more comparable to inocybes and clitocybes etc.

i admit tho, i assumed based on the fact that muscarine was originally named for the mushroom it was thought to be first discovered in, that it infact must have existed in that mushroom,  thanks for clearing up the origin of that misconception.


as for this statement.

"It is a criminal offence to gather, possess or sell any of them."
actually it is completely legal for nearly every mushroom you mentioned as only one (Psilocybe pelliculosa) is a species containing a controlled substance."

that, out of all the mushrooms pictures he posted as "magic" was the only true psilocybian mushroom. the rest were either edibler or mildly toxic meaning it would not violate drug laws to grow or possess them, i shoukd also mention that the mushroom in the photo labled "psilocybe pellucilosa was NOT this speceis,  and he said it was also called "liberty cap"  which is only half-tru, it is often refered to a liberty cap, but should be called "conifer psilocybe".
which are legal to gather and even consume, as long as you dont cultivate, process, or try to sell them.

and he also eluded that this mushroom was a common meadow mushroom in nova scotia.  that was very misleading as the dont occur east of the rockies and grow on wood


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1490537 - 04/24/03 07:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

P. pelliculosa is not a shroom found in conifer forests or in mixed conifers.

Their main habitat is alder and clearcuts in rain forests in the PNW. If you step ten feet into a forest where this shrooms is growing byt he hundreds of thousands in a claercut then there will be no more P. pelliculosa.

I will checkjk their site as soon as I can. I haven't looked yet. Just linked to my new server.

mj


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: ]
    #1490640 - 04/24/03 08:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah i absolutley love waching Unsolved History on the discovery channel i think it is.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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OfflinekREATION1
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1498123 - 04/27/03 04:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

did you allready got a reaction back from them?


--------------------
"an immigrant from heaven on earth with a work visa"


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: kREATION1]
    #1498165 - 04/27/03 05:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

the page has been up for several years now, i doubt very much there wll be response :frown:


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Offlinedefsk8tone
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1499087 - 04/27/03 11:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

there is so much to learn..........i think i'm gonna like this new found hobby of mine :smile:


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Offlinegovna
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Re: letter to the editor [Re: Mitchnast]
    #1499701 - 04/28/03 02:54 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It irks me that a website that is supposed to be factual, especially about such things as POISONOUS PLANTS & FUNGI, would not at least make some effort to research what they write. God knows how many people hae seen that page and assumeits true, because it's part of a museum. And why can't they just edit their informAtion to make it true? Are they more concerned with pride than accuracy or what?


Edited by govna (04/28/03 02:55 AM)


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