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xFrockx
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Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes
#14821437 - 07/25/11 09:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ever hear two people talk about jewelry or food, or any other thing where they are trading experiences?
A person will say "This gem is beautiful" or "This food is delicious", but what does that really mean?
If you never saw a gem and a person told you that it was a beautiful gem, would you know then what it looked like?
If you never tried a food and someone said it was delicious, would you know how it tasted?
The voice of reason can ask: "What is beautiful?" "What is delicious?" "What is good?" "What is evil?"
But those who prefer echoes aren't apt to have that conversation.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14821443 - 07/25/11 09:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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If someone says something is delicious then I can relate it to my past experience and be pretty sure they're saying it tastes good etc.
Best if you're going to hang out in the world to try to communicate in ways that people are comfortable with, cause you certainly aren't going to change much with your line of questioning imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: Icelander]
#14821504 - 07/25/11 10:02 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Seems like you aren't reading.
I said, if someone tells you a food is delicious, how much do you know about what it tastes like?
What does delicious taste like?
What does good taste like?
If anything, when we say these things we are saying that the food or whatever agrees with our personal preferences. But what does that tell another person about what they will experience?
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14821620 - 07/25/11 10:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
If anything, when we say these things we are saying that the food or whatever agrees with our personal preferences. But what does that tell another person about what they will experience?
Well, I don't think it tells them anything, unless they usually agree with that person, in which case it tells them they have a high chance of liking it also. But, so what? I don't think anyone assumes it is anything other than a subjective value judgement upon how repulsive or attractive the food is.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14821625 - 07/25/11 10:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: If anything, when we say these things we are saying that the food or whatever agrees with our personal preferences.
Im surprised you were ever under the impression that it meant something different than this.
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Icelander
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14821649 - 07/25/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: Seems like you aren't reading.
I said, if someone tells you a food is delicious, how much do you know about what it tastes like?
What does delicious taste like?
What does good taste like?
If anything, when we say these things we are saying that the food or whatever agrees with our personal preferences. But what does that tell another person about what they will experience?
It tells them that it's worth trying. It's not like people automatically believe they will like it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NetDiver
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: Icelander]
#14822189 - 07/25/11 01:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Normally if someone tells me something is worth trying, I assume that they know my taste and are recommending it based on what I've liked in the past -- not on a supposed ultimate standard of good, bad, etc.
I see the point you're making, though. A lot of people fail to recognize that the distinction is 100% subjective.
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blkjkrabbit
Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: NetDiver]
#14822336 - 07/25/11 01:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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so the voice of reason is asking someone to clarify one set of words with more synonyms?
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xFrockx
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: blkjkrabbit]
#14822451 - 07/25/11 01:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Is that what you think I meant?
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xFrockx
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: Icelander]
#14822459 - 07/25/11 01:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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"It tells them that it's worth trying."
That is the purpose of these statements? Doesn't seem like it to me, at least not all the time.
Many people hold their likes and dislikes a little bit closer to themselves than that.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14822490 - 07/25/11 01:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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People project huge images all over their daily activities. Something as simple as having a bath can become an almost religious activity. I think that's what you mean by the whole "Mmmm, delicious!" thing, it's sensationalization of life to keep out the boogey man.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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xFrockx
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: Grapefruit]
#14822496 - 07/25/11 01:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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"it's sensanalization of life to keep out the boogey man. "
I don't think so. I think its like tripping on words. When we say words that are associated with experiences, we feel a little bit like we did when we had the experiences they are associated with.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14822508 - 07/25/11 02:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You got that misspelling in your quote damnit! >_>; <_<;;
Quote:
I think its like tripping on words. When we say words that are associated with experiences, we feel a little bit like we did when we had the experiences they are associated with.
Sure, to keep out the boogeyman. Probs not the right word anyway.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: Grapefruit]
#14822514 - 07/25/11 02:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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"sensanalization"
Do freudian slips count for typing?
"Sure, to keep out the boogeyman. "
You still believe in the boogeyman?
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14822524 - 07/25/11 02:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I just meant anxiety. I know you disagree with death anxiety so I thought I'd keep it less specific but that's the slang around here donchaknow.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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xFrockx
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Posts: 10,458
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: Grapefruit]
#14822530 - 07/25/11 02:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't so much disagree with it as I don't know what death means such that we can be anxious of it.
I don't know what happens when I die, so to fear death I don't know what I would be fearing. Some say that it is fear of the unknown, and everyone has it. Well if that was the case I would always be afraid. Maybe I'm used to the unknown.
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Grapefruit
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14822560 - 07/25/11 02:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Do freudian slips count for typing?
Oh man, now it's like 10 times worse. orz
Unless you're just suggesting I have a penchant for cleanlisness in the way I keep my sense ordered. That I can deal with.
Quote:
I don't so much disagree with it as I don't know what death means such that we can be anxious of it.
I don't know what happens when I die, so to fear death I don't know what I would be fearing. Some say that they fear the unknown. Well if that was the case I would always be afraid. Maybe I'm used to the unknown.
I actually can see what you're saying there, I don't think death anxiety is necessarily death, or fear of the unknown or whatever. I just know viscerally it seems to be something similar and I think it quite likely it represents it. The majority of it is anxiety of the ego losing it's relevance IMO but it may have been created by death anxiety in the first place, I'm not sure.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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xFrockx
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: Grapefruit]
#14822588 - 07/25/11 02:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well I suppose it could be both. Wouldn't that be something?
"I just know viscerally it seems to be something similar and I think it quite likely it represents it. The majority of it is anxiety of the ego losing it's relevance IMO but it may have been created by death anxiety in the first place, I'm not sure."
I think it has less to do with literal death and more about one's attachment to themselves. "Ego-death" anxiety maybe. Hmm, maybe that's worth a thread.
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Grapefruit
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14822640 - 07/25/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah that's what I was trying to say with the bit of it losing it's relevance. It would have made sense for it to have originated in some base level natural response to a flight from death though. From the point humanity takes the wrong turn, it perhaps becomes almost irreversible until there's a major change in the way everyone sees everything.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Icelander
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14822671 - 07/25/11 02:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: "It tells them that it's worth trying."
That is the purpose of these statements? Doesn't seem like it to me, at least not all the time.
Many people hold their likes and dislikes a little bit closer to themselves than that.
When I say to someone this is good it means they should check it out usually and if it's more personal too...
So what? It's what people do.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14822678 - 07/25/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think it has less to do with literal death and more about one's attachment to themselves. "Ego-death" anxiety maybe. Hmm, maybe that's worth a thread.
What were you thinking death anxiety was all about? It's the death of the perceived self.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx
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Posts: 10,458
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: Grapefruit]
#14822679 - 07/25/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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"From the point humanity takes the wrong turn, it perhaps becomes almost irreversible until there's a major change in the way everyone sees everything. "
Personally, I don't think people could change how they think until there is a change in how things are run. In the U.S., its everyone for themselves. In the east, its about everyone for everyone else. What we need is some balance between that.
That balance is being slowly achieved through the blending of eastern and western culture as a result of the internet. The extremes don't really exist anymore, as in the west there has been more and more socialism, and in the east there has been more and more capitalism. There needs to be a way for these two ways of life into come into balance, and that balance, I think, could be achieved through non-profit capitalism.
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Icelander
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14822684 - 07/25/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think it has less to do with literal death and more about one's attachment to themselves. "Ego-death" anxiety maybe. Hmm, maybe that's worth a thread.
What were you thinking death anxiety was all about? It's the death of the perceived self.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: xFrockx]
#14822689 - 07/25/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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There needs to be a way for these two ways of life into come into balance, and that balance, I think, could be achieved through non-profit capitalism.
Why does there "need" to be a way?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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blkjkrabbit
Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
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Re: Without a voice of reason, all that is left is a chorus of echoes [Re: Icelander]
#14824244 - 07/25/11 07:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: There needs to be a way for these two ways of life into come into balance, and that balance, I think, could be achieved through non-profit capitalism.
Why does there "need" to be a way?
because dude, BECUASSEEEEE
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