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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right
    #1481916 - 04/22/03 09:18 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Our president (if anyone here is willing to claim him) has a "messiah complex".... he makes "gut" decisions right out of the department of faith - that Falwellian/Robertson faith that speaks volumes on just how the christian right can manipulate everything from the constitution to the bible by supporting a "my god is bigger than your god" war. Let's back up and assess the damage caused by "manipulative christianity" throughout recent history .... among the more notable christian crimes were the crusades, the thirty years war, the inquisition, regular slaughter of protestants, counter-slaughter by protestants, genocide against native americans (featuring biological warfare), slavery, the holocaust, ethnic cleansing, northern ireland, priests raping kids, and on and on. I thought you might like to know this, as you go to Easter services and pray for our troubled species. On one hand, if you happen to support this macho folly bullshit war, and if you happen to be catholic, you need to go to confession - NOW! . And on the other blown off hand (where ever it is), if you are a "christian", well have a GRAND OLD PARTY................... and french-kiss my ass, Mr. Bush....

(the jewish and muslim cults were not brought to attention here for one can only decipher one cult at a time).....

arianna online


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There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1482056 - 04/22/03 10:37 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

So why do you bother claiming the Pope on your side?

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1482060 - 04/22/03 10:40 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I was wondering why you even used the Pope as an example. the Pope is ALWAYS against military action....Even if he has no idea what reality he's in at the moment.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1482102 - 04/22/03 11:03 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

It's doubly silly to claim the Pope as your ally in a thread devoted to bashing Christians.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: wingnutx]
    #1482161 - 04/22/03 11:29 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

he makes "gut" decisions right out of the department of faith - that Falwellian/Robertson faith that speaks volumes on just how the christian right can manipulate everything from the constitution to the bible by supporting a "my god is bigger than your god" war




that's what i meant.  I'm pretty sure the pope is in the same realm as Falwellian/Robertson...duh :smirk:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1482184 - 04/22/03 11:37 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)


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Anonymous

Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1482459 - 04/22/03 01:14 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

haha, nice of you to classify everyone of a religion into one nice, easily targetted group.
I needed that.
After all, a laugh a day keeps the doctor away, or something

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OfflineOOOO
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 125
Last seen: 19 years, 14 days
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1482513 - 04/22/03 01:36 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

"among the more notable christian crimes were the crusades, the thirty years war, the inquisition, regular slaughter of protestants, counter-slaughter by protestants, genocide against native americans (featuring biological warfare), slavery, the holocaust, ethnic cleansing, northern ireland, priests raping kids, and on and on."

These are crimes that have been commited by so-called christians. Other than the Inquisition, none of them were actually carried out in the name of God. I don't think any priests were trying to use scripture to justify their raping of young boys.

By the same token, although Bush may be a christian, this war is not being carried out in the name of Christianity.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: OOOO]
    #1482561 - 04/22/03 01:53 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

By the same token, although Bush may be a christian, this war is not being carried out in the name of Christianity.




I'm glad you see that. There are many on this site that would differ. They'd be wrong but that never stops them.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: OOOO]
    #1482687 - 04/22/03 02:24 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe we can all agree that the beauty of this war has been its ability to be so many differnent things to so many different people.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: hongomon]
    #1482734 - 04/22/03 02:33 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Isn't that the same for everything?....or so it seems


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
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Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1482757 - 04/22/03 02:37 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Isn't that the same for everything?....or so it seems




Yeah... everything 's beautiful! Thanks, Inny.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: hongomon]
    #1482763 - 04/22/03 02:40 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

well, some think GWB is evil some don't,
some love saddam others don't so much,
people think the patriot act is a good thing others do not,
Some think we should all share the wealth others think they're lazy-asses that need to work harder,
Some think SUV's are evil others like myself drive em and smile...ya get it?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (04/22/03 02:42 PM)

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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 446
Loc: Vatican City
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1482799 - 04/22/03 02:48 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I'm pretty sure the pope is in the same realm as Falwellian/Robertson



I don't think that Robertson would totally agree with you on that. Many Christians consider the Catholic faith to be nothing more than Idolatry.

jssmthrfcknchrst


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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: wingnutx]
    #1483224 - 04/22/03 05:04 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

"..why do you bother claiming the Pope on your side?"




It appears as if my cynicism has gone over a few heads.


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There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1485294 - 04/23/03 04:52 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Many Christians consider the Catholic faith to be nothing more than Idolatry.




I'm catholic and i feel it's a shame due to the people in charge today (child molesting). But i wouldn't say it was Idolatry....just run by idiots.



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1485296 - 04/23/03 04:53 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

It appears as if my cynicism has gone over a few heads.




or your hypocrisy...who knows?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1485447 - 04/23/03 08:28 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

ooooo he breaks out the flame-thrower. While I may bash Christians and the Bushs I at least refrain from direct flames of fellow shroomers. With that said, however, may I point out to you that PINK FLOYD SUCKS. Try listening to some decent music - maybe something from this or one of the previous two decades.


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There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1485491 - 04/23/03 08:47 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ooooo he breaks out the flame-thrower. While I may bash Christians and the Bushs I at least refrain from direct flames of fellow shroomers.




I call em like i see em. Why even involve the pope?

side note: If you thought that was a flame you might have a rough time around here.

Quote:

With that said, however, may I point out to you that PINK FLOYD SUCKS. Try listening to some decent music - maybe something from this or one of the previous two decades.




and why would that bother me if you don't like it?

side note: Pink floyd toured in the 90's


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1485568 - 04/23/03 09:22 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

side note: Pink floyd toured in the 90's




yeah, so did the Eagles. Does that make 'em good?

I involved the Pope because he is The Man of one of the largest religious cults on the planet today. His church teaches 'the fierce old walloping bullshit doctrines of sin and punishment'. His church teaches people in impoverished 3rd world countries that it is against 'Gods' will to practice birth control. The Pope, to put it succinctly, sucks. And his God is make-believe - kinda like Santa Claus for adults.

reply to side note: Oooooo - I think i might like a rough time, Big Boy - are you offering?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1485713 - 04/23/03 10:24 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

His church teaches 'the fierce old walloping bullshit doctrines of sin and punishment'.




i wouldn't say it's BS but i would say that the main problem with the Catholic church is the "MAN-MADE" laws and the inability to admit to mistakes. I was born Catholic and questioned a lot of what they said.

Quote:

His church teaches people in impoverished 3rd world countries that it is against 'Gods' will to practice birth control.




This is one of the questions i had. I believe in BC and find it utterly rediculous that the Catholic church comes down on this side. I don't fall for the man made laws of the catholic church. I consider myself a Christian now, NOT Catholic.

Quote:

The Pope, to put it succinctly, sucks. And his God is make-believe - kinda like Santa Claus for adults.





I disagree. Faith for some can not be explained nor should it to prove a point. You can no more prove the non-existance of "his" god as i can the existance of that same god. agree to disagree.

Quote:

Oooooo - I think i might like a rough time, Big Boy - are you offering?




my god did that sound gay.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1485716 - 04/23/03 10:25 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Can you debate anything without using an ad hominem attack?

WTF does Pink Floyd have to do with this? Nothing. If this was a debate class you would be sitting in the corner.

You start an argument, you start to lose, then you change the subject and attack something else. That's your MO. Pitiful.

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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: wingnutx]
    #1488755 - 04/24/03 08:46 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

First, this isn't a debate class, it's a discussion forum for trippers.

Second, while indeed I was attacking christians and Bush I had made no personal attack against anybody on this board. Invertigo threw the first insult by insinuating that I'm a hypocrite, which I'm not. He/she started it with the flame, I only countered with my ad hominem 'attack' after the first punch was thrown. Pink Floyd happened to be right there in my face in his sig file & I do think they suck. Nonetheless, It was wrong for me to do it and I won't do it again.

Third, you imply that I've done something similar before - when might that have been?

Last - I don't think I've 'lost' the argument -that would be difficult given that I wasn't even arguing. I was simply clarifying to those that weren't sharp enough to figure out that I was being sarcastic in referring to the Pope in the subject line of this thread.

You will find that I'll post my opinions, or in some cases someone else's that I happen to agree with (with credit of course), but I'm not going to sit here and 'argue' with people I that don't even know (particularly those who think highly of drinking and fighting - oops there i go again.)



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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
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Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1488776 - 04/24/03 08:58 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

You can no more prove the non-existance of "his" god as i can the existance of that same god.



Nor would I ever try to. just expressing my opinion. agree to disagree indeed.

Quote:

my god did that sound gay



As intended.


And now, a small poem (actually its part of a song) (I hope Wingnut doesn't scold me again for going off-topic)

my god lives where yours can't breathe,
underwater silent scream.
Drowning me with her suffering,
my god, what a dream

Tempting acid, do as she pleases,
porous fingers flowing through Jesus
Your god's a game, it's all in your head
my gods a bullet, now look who's dead


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There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1488941 - 04/24/03 10:08 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

what was the point of that song?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1490622 - 04/24/03 06:05 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Can you debate anything without using an ad hominem attack?




I'm just killing time waiting for wingnutz to provide another example of me using an ad hominem attack. Surely such a skilled debater wouldn't be exaggerating the facts... or would he?


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There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

Edited by jimsuzo (04/24/03 06:07 PM)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1490943 - 04/24/03 07:50 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Can you debate anything without using an ad hominem attack?




did you mean to reply to me? I never said it......*reply button


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1491090 - 04/24/03 08:44 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

OK, here:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum14&Number=1475056&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

It's part an ad hominem attack on Bush ans xians, partly just plain changing the subject in the middle of the argument.

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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: wingnutx]
    #1491424 - 04/24/03 10:43 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

That's not only a weak example of what you claim I've done repeatedly, its also an incorrect application of the term ad hominem.

Ad hominem specifically refers to an occasion when a debater introduces irrelevant personal premises about his opponent.

In the case you cite, I was railing on Bush and his pro-war hawks. In this case, I railed on Bush allowing his faith to drive his policies and indeed, got off on a bit of a tangent about christians (blame it on my short attention span). While Bush and the christian right were indeed targets of my scorn, they were not my opponents in a debate, and therefore this does not qualify as an ad hominem attack.

In other words, you've lost this 'argument' as you've chosen to call it. I expected something better.


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1492829 - 04/25/03 11:08 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

from dictionary.com:

Quote:

ad hom?i?nem ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hm-nm, -nm)
adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives.




Such an attack can be directed at either an opponent, or a subject of debate.

I admit that I've only seen you do it a few times, but then again I've only seen a few of your threads.

Edited by wingnutx (04/25/03 11:24 AM)

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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: wingnutx]
    #1493927 - 04/25/03 04:31 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should
avoid ad hominem arguments that question their OPPONENTS' motives.




This is rich. The definition from your dictionary clearly backs me up, but you little addendum extends it to include the subject of debate. Are you on Webster's editing committee or something? Using your twisted logic, any matter of debate not backed up 100% by fact - like why war sucks, for example - is ad hominem. Its pointless discussing this any further with you.


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1494011 - 04/25/03 05:00 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Read it again.

"Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their OPPONENTS' motives. " is the dictionary using the word in a sentence, not a part of the actual definition.

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