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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1485713 - 04/23/03 10:24 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

His church teaches 'the fierce old walloping bullshit doctrines of sin and punishment'.




i wouldn't say it's BS but i would say that the main problem with the Catholic church is the "MAN-MADE" laws and the inability to admit to mistakes. I was born Catholic and questioned a lot of what they said.

Quote:

His church teaches people in impoverished 3rd world countries that it is against 'Gods' will to practice birth control.




This is one of the questions i had. I believe in BC and find it utterly rediculous that the Catholic church comes down on this side. I don't fall for the man made laws of the catholic church. I consider myself a Christian now, NOT Catholic.

Quote:

The Pope, to put it succinctly, sucks. And his God is make-believe - kinda like Santa Claus for adults.





I disagree. Faith for some can not be explained nor should it to prove a point. You can no more prove the non-existance of "his" god as i can the existance of that same god. agree to disagree.

Quote:

Oooooo - I think i might like a rough time, Big Boy - are you offering?




my god did that sound gay.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1485716 - 04/23/03 10:25 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Can you debate anything without using an ad hominem attack?

WTF does Pink Floyd have to do with this? Nothing. If this was a debate class you would be sitting in the corner.

You start an argument, you start to lose, then you change the subject and attack something else. That's your MO. Pitiful.

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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: wingnutx]
    #1488755 - 04/24/03 08:46 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

First, this isn't a debate class, it's a discussion forum for trippers.

Second, while indeed I was attacking christians and Bush I had made no personal attack against anybody on this board. Invertigo threw the first insult by insinuating that I'm a hypocrite, which I'm not. He/she started it with the flame, I only countered with my ad hominem 'attack' after the first punch was thrown. Pink Floyd happened to be right there in my face in his sig file & I do think they suck. Nonetheless, It was wrong for me to do it and I won't do it again.

Third, you imply that I've done something similar before - when might that have been?

Last - I don't think I've 'lost' the argument -that would be difficult given that I wasn't even arguing. I was simply clarifying to those that weren't sharp enough to figure out that I was being sarcastic in referring to the Pope in the subject line of this thread.

You will find that I'll post my opinions, or in some cases someone else's that I happen to agree with (with credit of course), but I'm not going to sit here and 'argue' with people I that don't even know (particularly those who think highly of drinking and fighting - oops there i go again.)



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There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1488776 - 04/24/03 08:58 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

You can no more prove the non-existance of "his" god as i can the existance of that same god.



Nor would I ever try to. just expressing my opinion. agree to disagree indeed.

Quote:

my god did that sound gay



As intended.


And now, a small poem (actually its part of a song) (I hope Wingnut doesn't scold me again for going off-topic)

my god lives where yours can't breathe,
underwater silent scream.
Drowning me with her suffering,
my god, what a dream

Tempting acid, do as she pleases,
porous fingers flowing through Jesus
Your god's a game, it's all in your head
my gods a bullet, now look who's dead


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1488941 - 04/24/03 10:08 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

what was the point of that song?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1490622 - 04/24/03 06:05 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Can you debate anything without using an ad hominem attack?




I'm just killing time waiting for wingnutz to provide another example of me using an ad hominem attack. Surely such a skilled debater wouldn't be exaggerating the facts... or would he?


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

Edited by jimsuzo (04/24/03 06:07 PM)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1490943 - 04/24/03 07:50 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Can you debate anything without using an ad hominem attack?




did you mean to reply to me? I never said it......*reply button


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1491090 - 04/24/03 08:44 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

OK, here:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum14&Number=1475056&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

It's part an ad hominem attack on Bush ans xians, partly just plain changing the subject in the middle of the argument.

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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: wingnutx]
    #1491424 - 04/24/03 10:43 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

That's not only a weak example of what you claim I've done repeatedly, its also an incorrect application of the term ad hominem.

Ad hominem specifically refers to an occasion when a debater introduces irrelevant personal premises about his opponent.

In the case you cite, I was railing on Bush and his pro-war hawks. In this case, I railed on Bush allowing his faith to drive his policies and indeed, got off on a bit of a tangent about christians (blame it on my short attention span). While Bush and the christian right were indeed targets of my scorn, they were not my opponents in a debate, and therefore this does not qualify as an ad hominem attack.

In other words, you've lost this 'argument' as you've chosen to call it. I expected something better.


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1492829 - 04/25/03 11:08 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

from dictionary.com:

Quote:

ad hom?i?nem ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hm-nm, -nm)
adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives.




Such an attack can be directed at either an opponent, or a subject of debate.

I admit that I've only seen you do it a few times, but then again I've only seen a few of your threads.

Edited by wingnutx (04/25/03 11:24 AM)

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Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: wingnutx]
    #1493927 - 04/25/03 04:31 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should
avoid ad hominem arguments that question their OPPONENTS' motives.




This is rich. The definition from your dictionary clearly backs me up, but you little addendum extends it to include the subject of debate. Are you on Webster's editing committee or something? Using your twisted logic, any matter of debate not backed up 100% by fact - like why war sucks, for example - is ad hominem. Its pointless discussing this any further with you.


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million

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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Why The Anti-War Movement AND The Pope Were Right [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1494011 - 04/25/03 05:00 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Read it again.

"Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their OPPONENTS' motives. " is the dictionary using the word in a sentence, not a part of the actual definition.

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