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OfflineSKrink
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NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner?
    #14804842 - 07/21/11 06:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So suspecting that there were fungicides or something in my rye, I ran the following test:
3 jars RYE (original questionable rye from Nuts 'R' Good online store)
3 jars WBS (Pennington Classic Bird Basics)
3 jars 50-50 mix of RYE/WBS

Rye and WBS soaked/simmered separately til optimum moisture content.
Loaded separately into their respective jars. Mixed grains well and loaded for the 50-50 jars.
Covered jars with foil, PC'ed 90 min at 15psi.
Allowed to cool overnight.

60cc Grain LC made from fully colonized jar of PE on rye.
(--> This was the original questionable rye. Took 40 days to reach full colonization from MS. Only this one jar out of 10 inoculated showed mycelium germination at all. Other jars of other species, using this rye, also took a very long time to show any mycelium, if at all.)

Day 0: Inoculated 4cc of GLC each, into 3 jars RYE, 3 jars WBS, 3 jars 50-50 RYE/WBS.

Day 3: Signs of mycelium in WBS and 50-50 WBS/RYE jars. Nothing in RYE jars
Day 6: WBS jars all at 50-70% colonization. Shook all 3.
            WBS/RYE jars all at 30-50% colonization. Shook all 3.
            RYE jars all at 0-10% colonization. Obviously, shook none.

So, personally I feel like the results of this test are pretty clear. It's the RYE grain that contributed to my Super Slow and Absent Myc.

What RYE is this? Well, I got it from an online store called Nuts'R'Good-- a pretty good deal at $19 for 25lbs but damn slow shipping.
Although it was labelled "USDA Certified Organic", I strongly suspect it has been treated with fungicides-- at least the batch I got. How else to explain my results?

If you have used rye from this store, please share your experience, especially if you have had good results from them.


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!

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Offlinek00laid
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: SKrink]
    #14804875 - 07/21/11 06:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

how sure are you that you are hydrating your rye properly?


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Offlinesage1o1
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: k00laid]
    #14804918 - 07/21/11 06:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You think "Nuts Are Good" is slow? I've always had really good luck with them.  They're my main guys for rye berries and I have no reason to look elsewhere.  You may be right though about the berries not being organic but all in all I think they're pretty cool.  And they always seem nice on the phone.  To each their own though.

Anyways, nice post!


--------------------
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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length--and there I travel looking, looking breathlessly." -Carlos Castenda  (Don Juan: the Sorcerer)

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OfflineSKrink
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: k00laid]
    #14805341 - 07/21/11 08:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
how sure are you that you are hydrating your rye properly?




Well, I do a 24hr soak-- using dilute coffee and 1/3 cup gypsum (for 10 cups rye). Soak water level is 3" above rye.
After 24hrs, it gets a 10 min simmer on the stove, constantly stirring.
Then drain, spread out rye on wire mesh. Let it steam off about 10-15 minutes.
When that's done, I can easily split a rye grain by applying pressure between forefinger-nail and thumb. It's dry enough on the outside to pass the toilet paper test.

If anything, I am unsure about my WBS hydration method... those little grains STILL rattle about like glass marbles after a 24 hour soak and 10 min simmer.

But yeah any ideas about how to interpret these test results are welcome!
Should I repeat this test, to see if I get consistent results?
Should I vary hydration levels with my rye-- if so, would you suggest dryer or wetter?

I'd like to be able to use this rye still, because there's still 10lbs or so left and I'd hate for it to go to waste.


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!

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OfflineSKrink
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: sage1o1]
    #14805366 - 07/21/11 08:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

sage1o1 said:
You think "Nuts Are Good" is slow? I've always had really good luck with them.  They're my main guys for rye berries and I have no reason to look elsewhere.  You may be right though about the berries not being organic but all in all I think they're pretty cool.




Could you share how you prep the rye you get from them?

If my procedure is somehow affecting the mycelium-rye relationship, that's something I would wanna know about and start correcting it right away.


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!

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Offlinesage1o1
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: SKrink]
    #14805510 - 07/21/11 09:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SKrink said:
Quote:

sage1o1 said:
You think "Nuts Are Good" is slow? I've always had really good luck with them.  They're my main guys for rye berries and I have no reason to look elsewhere.  You may be right though about the berries not being organic but all in all I think they're pretty cool.




Could you share how you prep the rye you get from them?

If my procedure is somehow affecting the mycelium-rye relationship, that's something I would wanna know about and start correcting it right away.





It's very similar to yours.  Some differences are, there's no wire mesh involved in my method.  I just have two colanders that I use to strain the water and let them cool in.  I wait a good 30 minutes or until they're cool to the touch (which takes even longer).  I don't ever stir when they're in the pot boiling.  I don't simmer them, for right or wrong, I just put it on high heat then once it's boiling I turn it down a bit, easypeasy.  And I don't use that much gypsum.  I usually just end up using a table spoon's worth.  I learned that if you're getting excess at the bottom of your crock pot, you're using too much.

If you want me to go into detail about each step, I will.  But I (just like most people) have been using RR's grain prep tek since day one and have never looked back!  Shout out to RR!

Really there's not much signifgant difference between the way you described and the way I do it.  Don't throw away your rye berries, I bet they're fine. 

Imho, rye berries are the best spawn available.


--------------------
An optimally setup greenhouse: (it's my GH :heart:)

Check it out if you have GH questions!

 

"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length--and there I travel looking, looking breathlessly." -Carlos Castenda  (Don Juan: the Sorcerer)

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Invisiblearchivist
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: sage1o1]
    #14805705 - 07/21/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know that you can make a definitive conclusion with just one test...

I remember WBS being more of a pain to work with in the past, although I can't remember why.  Both worked well, but rye seems more consistent and is said to provide better nutrients for mushrooms.


--------------------


Proud supporter of the canning jar industry.

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OfflineSKrink
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: archivist]
    #14806357 - 07/22/11 12:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sure rye is good for mycelium in general. However, I should've been clear in saying  right from the start, I'm not trying to make a general claim here.

My experience using this PARTICULAR batch of rye for the past 30+ jars, with Reishi, Shiitake, PE, and ATL#7, has been consistently poor. Immediate and marked improvement was noticed upon switching to a particular brand of WBS.

To me, the winner is clear-- at least until I get some rye from a different source/batch and try that out. That's something I am pretty certainly interested in investigating. Esp since sage101 has good results using rye from this seller-- I could've just got a funky batch.

Def understand that this isn't the case for everyone. Just trying to diagnose my specific situation  :shrug:


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!

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Offlinesage1o1
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: SKrink]
    #14806419 - 07/22/11 12:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, your problem does sound pretty crazy.  If I didn't know better, I'd think it's excessive moister.  You have seen RR's perfect grain tek video, correct?  Also, I just noticed that you said 4 cc's per jar of GLC.  That's just too much.  You may be disturbing your moister level balance.


--------------------
An optimally setup greenhouse: (it's my GH :heart:)

Check it out if you have GH questions!

 

"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length--and there I travel looking, looking breathlessly." -Carlos Castenda  (Don Juan: the Sorcerer)

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OfflineSKrink
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: sage1o1]
    #14806571 - 07/22/11 01:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

sage1o1 said:
You have seen RR's perfect grain tek video, correct?  Also, I just noticed that you said 4 cc's per jar of GLC.  That's just too much.  You may be disturbing your moister level balance.




I've seen the sample clip on his website.

As for moisture level-- possibly 4cc was fine for the WBS but too much for rye. However, there's been no liquid pooling in any of the jars.
What are other indicators of excess moisture due to too much inoculant?


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!

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Offlinek00laid
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: SKrink]
    #14806576 - 07/22/11 01:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

wtf you talkin bout 4ccs too much

ill shoot 10ccs of grain lc into a rye jar. no problems :thumbup:


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Offlinesage1o1
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: k00laid]
    #14806618 - 07/22/11 01:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Really??!! I guess, I've just always thought that.  :imspecial:  :niggawhat:

Maybe I read it, who knows?


--------------------
An optimally setup greenhouse: (it's my GH :heart:)

Check it out if you have GH questions!

 

"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length--and there I travel looking, looking breathlessly." -Carlos Castenda  (Don Juan: the Sorcerer)

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OfflineChez man
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: k00laid]
    #14806678 - 07/22/11 01:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
wtf you talkin bout 4ccs too much

ill shoot 10ccs of grain lc into a rye jar. no problems :thumbup:




I've also done this with nothing but success.


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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: Chez man]
    #14807048 - 07/22/11 05:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

10 mL = two teaspoons.
It's a waste, but not enough to disturb the water balance.
I find that 1 mL of GLC per cup of cooked grain works well for me, so that's 2 mL in a quart jar.


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OfflineChez man
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: Doc_T]
    #14807961 - 07/22/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
10 mL = two teaspoons.
It's a waste, but not enough to disturb the water balance.
I find that 1 mL of GLC per cup of cooked grain works well for me, so that's 2 mL in a quart jar.





Yeah for the most part it's a waste, but when you got more GLC than you know what to do with, well then.......


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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: Chez man]
    #14808121 - 07/22/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, 5 or 10 into a jar isn't really a problem.
I like to get a good grain LC syringe and use that as a master. I'll knock up pints, then do g2g into quarts.
So 1 mL of solution turns into 3 or four tubs. So a good culture lasts a long long time.


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OfflineChez man
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: Doc_T]
    #14808319 - 07/22/11 11:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Yeah, 5 or 10 into a jar isn't really a problem.
I like to get a good grain LC syringe and use that as a master. I'll knock up pints, then do g2g into quarts.
So 1 mL of solution turns into 3 or four tubs. So a good culture lasts a long long time.




Doc why do you knock-up pints first instead of quarts? Maybe easier to do GTG with pints?


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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: Chez man]
    #14808342 - 07/22/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, they fit my hand better. And a pint does six quarts real nice.
Plus if one goes bad it's less waste.


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OfflineSKrink
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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: Doc_T]
    #14808368 - 07/22/11 12:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm thinking of inoculating my remaining GLC into a Karo LC to expand it for future use. Is this pointless?
Should I simply store my GLC syringe in the fridge til I need it again, then g2g until I reach the desired expansion amount?


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!

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Re: NutsRGood RYE vs Pennington WBS-- clear winner? [Re: SKrink]
    #14808374 - 07/22/11 12:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Either of those is ok. Test your sugar LC well.
And don't use karo, get malt and dextrose. Makes sediment, don't freak out.


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