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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: imachavel]
#14874881 - 08/05/11 12:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
remember in space there is no temperature.
Sure there is. You dont need atoms to have temperature, you need only energy density. The temperature of space is about 4K, due to its energy density.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,564
Loc: You get banned for saying that
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: HeavyToilet]
#14874900 - 08/05/11 12:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
HeavyToilet said: Now, these are the experiments they should be conducting on the International Space Station! I can just imagine a bunch of Russians taking turns sticking their heads out into space. 
I should have read all this before I replied. it looks like everything I said was already stated before hand. yes your hand would hold in the pressure of your blood as long as your hand maintained internal pressure. how long would that be in a vacuum? amazing.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,564
Loc: You get banned for saying that
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: DieCommie]
#14874921 - 08/05/11 12:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
remember in space there is no temperature.
Sure there is. You dont need atoms to have temperature, you need only energy density. The temperature of space is about 4K, due to its energy density.
no shit. but that's gotta be the energy density around this part of the solar system or galaxy. now way out in space beyond the milky way, is there any energy at all? the temperature of energy density must have nowhere near the same physical laws as temperature with extreme matter density such as it exists here on earth. what cools faster, a thermometer left under the ground in cold soil, or held in the air? I actually don't know, I'm asking, but I assume because of the density of mercury, the results will be the same, because the mercury is what's cooling, not the soil or air. at least that's what you are measuring.
now if there was a way to measure temperature directly, which would cool faster, the air or ground? or is pressure between air and ground at sea level basically the same? there is probably no way to get accurate reading on earth huh on which would cool faster?
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: imachavel]
#14875171 - 08/05/11 01:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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imachavel said: what cools faster, a thermometer left under the ground in cold soil, or held in the air?
A thermometer left under the ground because soil has a much higher heat capacity and thermal conductivity than air (assuming reasonably still air).
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now if there was a way to measure temperature directly, which would cool faster, the air or ground?
This is a totally different question and the answer depends on lots of specifics like how you are heating each, surface area, volumes, etc.
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or is pressure between air and ground at sea level basically the same?
Yes.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: Stonehenge]
#14876250 - 08/05/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said: john, i know you can read so i must assume its your pride which prevents you from admitting you were wrong. No one goes very long without being wrong unless they say nothing.
Please confine yourself to discussing the arguments and ideas expressed by the posters. Your feelings on fellow poster's personality and motivations are not relevant to this thread nor this forum's topic- it also tends to cause off topic arguments and more insults.
Quote:
We can quibble about whether rapid evaporation is the same as boiling but there is no point in it. Believe what you wish, i'm done with that particular topic.
? Boiling points are pretty well defined: that point where the partial pressure of a liquid's vapor equals the atmospheric pressure. "Rapid Evaporation" happens in many circumstances below the boiling point, such as with a closed system with a dry atmosphere and some water, say at standard conditions.
What exactly are you claiming is going to happen, if not "boiling"? Clearly "rapid evaporation" cannot occur for very long as the physical integrity of the hand would have to be compromised to allow even a small portion of the blood to vaporize- the volume difference between the vaporized and liquid water being so great. ChuangTzu went over all this before, and you seem to have left this point unchallenged, so its unclear what your saying.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: johnm214]
#14876380 - 08/05/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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So you use your capacity as a moderator to give me an official warning basically for disagreeing with you. I suppose i'll get another one for this post but it's the truth.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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HeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All


Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: Stonehenge]
#14876455 - 08/05/11 11:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, it must be due to you disagreeing with him. It couldn't possibly due to your numerous attempts at derailing the discussion combined with a personal attack.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: Stonehenge]
#14876466 - 08/05/11 11:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Was that why you were warned- for disagreeing with me?
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Stonehenge, Please do not insult other posters and confine your discussion to the topic of the forum and thread in question. In general, you may criticize and discuss the ideas of posters without limit, but you may not make negative personal comments or try and change the discussion from the merits of various ideas to the personal qualities of forum members.
This warning is based on the following two posts:
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Stonehenge said: Ask me if i care about your opinion?[...]
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14873310#14873310
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Stonehenge said: john, i know you can read so i must assume its your pride which prevents you from admitting you were wrong.[...]
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14872488#14872488
If you need any help understanding the rules or with anything else, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator.
-johnm214

Hmm, where did it mention anything about disagreements? In fact, I thought I explicitly said that was ok?
If you want to bitch, either confine it to the feedback/complaints thread in my journal, send me a PM stating your disagreement, or send in a support ticket.
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Stonehenge said: I suppose i'll get another one for this post but it's the truth.
Naw, if you're intent on getting yourself banned to justify your persecution complex, your going to have to do better than that 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: johnm214]
#14876614 - 08/05/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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So "Ask me if i care about your opinion?" can't be said anymore?
Saying your pride prevents you from admitting you were wrong is now an offense? Or only if a mod is involved?
I see stronger stuff than that every day on these boards, we all do. In most big forums they have a rule that a mod can not moderate in a thread that he/she is involved in. That is to prevent a hot headed response.
In this same thread diecommie said
>Lame, as usual
Which is clearly a personal attack but it supported john so no warning. I personally think minor stuff like that is no big deal. It's selective enforcement that is wrong.
In another thread i read today someone said someone else had the brains of a cow. Normally, if a mod thinks a conversation is getting too heated, he will tell everyone to knock it off. Curse words are used fairly frequently and usually receive no notice. But if you use the world "pride" and a mod doesn't like it, it can be an official offense. Selective enforcement by someone with a motive to be harsh is wrong.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: Stonehenge]
#14876711 - 08/05/11 12:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Which is clearly a personal attack but it supported john so no warning.
I dont think it is. Your response and ideas are lame. I dont know anything about you personally.
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HeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All


Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: Stonehenge]
#14876714 - 08/05/11 12:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said: So "Ask me if i care about your opinion?" can't be said anymore?
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Saying your pride prevents you from admitting you were wrong is now an offense? Or only if a mod is involved?
This has nothing to do with the scientific discussion we are having.
Quote:
I see stronger stuff than that every day on these boards, we all do. In most big forums they have a rule that a mod can not moderate in a thread that he/she is involved in. That is to prevent a hot headed response.
This forum is for scientific discussion, those forums are not. 
Quote:
In this same thread diecommie said
>Lame, as usual
Which is clearly a personal attack but it supported john so no warning.
It looks like to me that he was responding to your post. He was not saying that you, as a human being are lame. It was pretty obvious he was calling your tactic of side stepping, and attacking John personally, rather than discussing the topic, lame.
Edited by HeavyToilet (08/05/11 12:47 PM)
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: Stonehenge]
#14877623 - 08/05/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Again: take it somewhere else.
As for diecommie's statement, report it if you think there's a problem. I don't see why this is such a big mystery though: attacking a person's post is perfectly fine, attacking their person is not. He can call your post lame if he wants to.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,564
Loc: You get banned for saying that
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: johnm214]
#14878961 - 08/05/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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yes please. this thread has been derailed by moderators and shroomery members. what does any of this have to do with an object traveling in space, or the way an object would travel in space due to loss of atmospheric pressure? cmon
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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GrimReaper6942
OM NOM NOM!


Registered: 08/04/11
Posts: 35
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: imachavel]
#14879545 - 08/06/11 12:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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imachavel said: if I had a space ship that was 5 miles away from a grenade, and this grenade exploded, in theory, it would travel at the same speed for 5 miles and hit my space ship as though it had exploded right next to it.
without air friction, or gravity, objects in motion tend to stay in motion. this is how the voyager got to pluto with a few rocket corrections right? objects in motion tend to stay in motion makes so much more sense in space
okay how am i going to explain this in text....the answer is yes and no...gravity affects everything...that is why we will use gravity to slingshot off of planets and such....as you are moving the gravity will slow you down gradually...explosions have never been 'tested' in outer space(which is why we are afraid to use nuclear energy in space) honestly even with my experience in science and physics im unsure on what to say...it could explode and then implode on itself it may not even explode at all! space is a vaccum, and when you pull the pin on a grenade it releases a spring mechanism that pushes the pin into a peice of metal which creates a spark, lights the fuse, and in 5 seconds it goes BOOM! theres two things that would cause me to think that your idea wouldnt work...
1. How would the absence of gravity affect the grenades spring mechanism? 2. well the grenade be able to produce a spark to ignite the fuse and can that fuse stay ignited....i dont believe the fuse would become ignited and even if it did become ignited it the fuse would become snuffed out because space is a vaccum...
but HEY! who knows! we are constantly discovering new things about space so maybe everything i said is wrong but im about 80% sure what i said is right
-------------------- I <3 Shroomery(:
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
1. How would the absence of gravity affect the grenades spring mechanism?
It wouldn't. Springs dont need gravity to compress or expand.
Quote:
2. well the grenade be able to produce a spark to ignite the fuse and can that fuse stay ignited....i dont believe the fuse would become ignited and even if it did become ignited it the fuse would become snuffed out because space is a vaccum...
You could put the oxygen in the fuel/explosive material, like a rocket engine.
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GrimReaper6942
OM NOM NOM!



Registered: 08/04/11
Posts: 35
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: DieCommie]
#14879569 - 08/06/11 12:55 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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DieCommie said: You could put the oxygen in the fuel/explosive material, like a rocket engine.
yeah but im assuming he is using your average hand grenade hahaha but even if that happens what would the explosion cause? it would start deteriorate but since its not under the same pressure as it would be on earth it would be a MUCH BIGGER explosion than what you would expect... all in all until we study more into explosions in outer space dont go throwing random hand grenades out of your space ship!
-------------------- I <3 Shroomery(:
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GrimReaper6942
OM NOM NOM!



Registered: 08/04/11
Posts: 35
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: DieCommie]
#14879596 - 08/06/11 01:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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You could put the oxygen in the fuel/explosive material, like a rocket engine.
and with the way a hand grenade works it would be impossible to do that because the grenade would have to be air tight...so for your idea to work you would have to create a brand new grenade...and then you would make millions!
I copyright this post ;D muahaha now I will have millions and you wont(:<
-------------------- I <3 Shroomery(:
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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I would guess that grenades already do have the oxygen in the fuel. 
Im not sure it would combust fast enough if it didnt.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,564
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 12 hours, 22 minutes
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: DieCommie]
#14879743 - 08/06/11 02:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I asked this guy in a pm, and he didn't reply. I was asking if grenades were air tight, I guess the fuse that lights inside the grenade is open after the pin is pulled? I just wasn't sure because I thought in movies you can't see any fuse light in the grenade. obviously those aren't grenades, but I was under the impression it was sealed inside and self oxygenated.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: so in theory in space....... [Re: imachavel]
#14879745 - 08/06/11 02:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I dont know... But I dont think it would need to be air tight. I would presume it uses a solid fuel/oxygen mixture not completely unlike some rockets.
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