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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,245
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: kykeon]
    #1488748 - 04/24/03 10:43 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sounds sad that u r with those few on this planet who doesnt see the Empire.



What's sad is that too many think there is.

Quote:

All thinking people



So only people who agree with you are "thinking?" How pathetic.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (04/24/03 01:36 PM)


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: OOOO]
    #1489097 - 04/24/03 01:11 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

OOOO writes:

Let's suppose that the UN sanctions did actually kill as many as some are claiming.

No need to make that erroneous supposition. Alex knows full well those numbers are bogus. I have posted half a dozen times here in this forum the actual studies that UN agencies conducted from which those "figures" were supposedly taken. The authors of the studies state explicitly that there is no way to use their data to support the numbers that Halliday and others toss around, and that any such numbers quoted are arbitrary and most definitely not supported by the studies.

Alex tries this same ploy every few months in the hopes that we will have forgotten the last six times he was proven wrong. Feel free to ignore it.

pinky



--------------------


Edited by pinksharkmark (04/24/03 01:13 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Phred]
    #1489638 - 04/24/03 03:37 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

You keep attempting to pull this stroke pink, blithly ignoring that the head of the UN oil for food programme - a man you would expect to have a great deal of knowledge on the situation in Iraq has stated many times that 4-6000 kids a month is "probably on the low side".

Do you think he just made this up to annoy right-wingers like yourself?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineOOOO
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 125
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Xlea321]
    #1489654 - 04/24/03 03:42 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)



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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: OOOO]
    #1489686 - 04/24/03 03:52 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

The US stopped the sanctions against the wishes of the UN? Are you serious? The US and the UK have been the two countries most determind at all costs to keep the sanctions in place.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Xlea321]
    #1490075 - 04/24/03 05:28 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Alex123 writes:

You keep attempting to pull this stroke pink...

Don't make me bump one of the six threads so far in which your contention has been thoroughly demolished, Alex. For some reason every few months you pull it out of the trash and dust it off again and hope everyone has forgotten the last six times you were publicly humiliated.

...blithly ignoring that the head of the UN oil for food programme - a man you would expect to have a great deal of knowledge on the situation in Iraq has stated many times that 4-6000 kids a month is "probably on the low side".

And as the last six times I posted the same information prove, his numbers are imaginary. Once again you demonstrate your almost servile submission to proclamations (however demonstrably false they are proven to be) of whomever you deem to be an "expert".

Do you think he just made this up to annoy right-wingers like yourself?

As you well know, I am not a right winger. And as we have discussed several times in the past, I have no idea why he has chosen to deliberately misrepresent the data of the real experts who produced the reports. His motivations for doing so are irrelevant to me. What is relevant is the information contained in the studies themselves, not the misrepresentations of some ex office jockey with a chip on his shoulder.

I suggest you drop this and move on. I am fully prepared to bump the thread.

pinky


--------------------


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Phred]
    #1490146 - 04/24/03 05:47 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry didn't bother to read all the pages...what did i miss?

Those pictures of the pows look pretty decent to me.....thats a little better than how i would treat MY prisoner!

But theyre american! The plane must be some torture device deliberately planned to hurt iraqis. See whoever said thier arms would be ripped off from pressure was right! Expect it'll take an hour or two for the arms to detach, but when the plane lands they are fed into the US turkey gissle machine and turned into...more oil!!...thats right!...


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Phred]
    #1490154 - 04/24/03 05:49 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I have no idea why he has chosen to deliberately misrepresent the data of the real experts who produced the reports.

Lets take a wild guess. He's studied all the available evidence and come to the conclusion that 4-6000 kids on the low side are dying every month. You really think doing a 2 minute google search means you know more about Iraq than the head of the Iraq oil for food program?

I am fully prepared to bump the thread.

I think you'd better.



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1490161 - 04/24/03 05:50 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Don't believe me?!  the plans are all drawn up....and one is already working! :shocked:
http://www.discover.com/may_03/featoil.html



--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Xlea321]
    #1490467 - 04/24/03 07:18 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Fine, Alex. The thread has been bumped. The title is "Bomb Saddam! Free Iraq!"

The discussion about Halliday's imaginary numbers starts on the 8th page of the thread if you are displaying 20 posts per page. The quotes from the UNICEF studies appear in my post on the 10th page if you are displaying 20 posts per page.

Here is the link --
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum14&Number=
1311793&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1


pinky


--------------------


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Phred]
    #1491532 - 04/25/03 01:33 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

So you genuinely believe that from a 2 minute google search you have a better picture of what is happening in Iraq than the UN head of the oil for food programme? And his successor who resigned for exactly the same reason? They both just woke up one morning and decided "I know, I'll throw away the job i've had for 30 years for no reason and make up some story that 4-6000 kids are dying every month for the fun of it".

Sorry pink, I don't buy it.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Xlea321]
    #1491650 - 04/25/03 02:11 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Alex123 writes:

So you genuinely believe that from a 2 minute google search you have a better picture of what is happening in Iraq than the UN head of the oil for food programme?

It originally took around two minutes to find the actual report that Halliday has persistently misrepresented, yes. It took longer to read it, and it longer still to read associated commentary at other websites re the Saddam apologists' insistence on ignoring what the actual report said. I then spent a bit more time reading what UNICEF, OXFAM, and other relief agencies have to say about how the increasing rate of infant mortality in developing countries matches closely the increasing rate of the substitution of powdered milk formula for breast milk.

You have raised all these tired and flabby counters in every one of the previous six threads in which I have posted the relevant portions of the actual reports. It basically amounts to exactly the same faulty premise --

Dennis Halliday is deliberately misrepresenting the reports not because he has a personal agenda, but because he somehow knows more about infant mortality in Iraq than the people who compiled the reports.

You have never made a single comment about the actual reports themselves, because you know full well they refute everything you are trying to put over on us, and you realize that the authors of the reports have impeccable credentials and their research is unimpeachable. So what do you do instead? You completely ignore the actual work and instead set up Halliday as some kind of omniscient god. You ignore what the reports say, and instead pretend that what Halliday claims they say (even though anyone with basic reading skills can see his claims are bogus) somehow has more validity.

You really are a total slave to "authority figures", aren't you? Are you not capable of thinking for yourself? Are you not capable of comprehending simple and unequivocal declarative sentences from those who actually conducted the studies which prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Halliday is deliberately misrepresenting their work?

You are rehashing the same losing points that were discredited in the thread I bumped. Unless you have something new to say -- something other than "Dennis says it is so, therefore it must be so," I will merely direct you to my post on the tenth page of the bumped post. Repetition bores me.

pinky



--------------------


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Offlinekykeon
Dead wishes

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1,506
Loc: A universe right next to ...
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1492147 - 04/25/03 08:13 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

okee.

whats been accepted as OBVIOUS in my society is definately NOT whats been accepted as OBVIOUS in your society. There is no point of arguing more. You and all people who dont see the Empire, have their 'proofs' of thinking so. Me and all those who do see the Empire, have our 'proofs' of thinking so.

Time will tell.

I hope I am wrong and USA wants everyone to be free and happy in this wicked planet.


--------------------
The living ghost of Kykeon


Edited by kykeon (04/25/03 08:14 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Phred]
    #1492624 - 04/25/03 12:00 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

You completely ignore the actual work and instead set up Halliday as some kind of omniscient god.

No, I just see him as the head of the UN oil for food programme. I think he has a good idea what figures are accurate and which are bogus. Certainly more of an idea than you.

You really are a total slave to "authority figures", aren't you?

That's funny coming from a rabid right-winger.

which prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Halliday is deliberately misrepresenting their work?

The UN humanitarian aid co-ordinator Hans Von Sponeck also resigned in disgust at the genocidal sanctions. One UN expert resinging for no reason and making up lies is in the wildest reaches of fantasy itself, but TWO resigning for the same reason? Sorry pink. I don't buy it. I know you want to believe desperately that a 2 minute google search gives you more information than the humanitarian aid co-ordinator for Iraq but I assure you, it doesn't.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Xlea321]
    #1492667 - 04/25/03 12:16 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

That's funny coming from a rabid right-winger.



A 'rabid right winger' is someone who uses reason and believes in individual liberty? An interesting definition.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Evolving]
    #1492677 - 04/25/03 12:21 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Do you have anything to say on-topic?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Xlea321]
    #1493049 - 04/25/03 02:08 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Alex123 writes:

No, I just see him as the head of the UN oil for food programme. I think he has a good idea what figures are accurate and which are bogus. Certainly more of an idea than you.

The UN humanitarian aid co-ordinator Hans Von Sponeck also resigned in disgust at the genocidal sanctions. One UN expert resinging for no reason and making up lies is in the wildest reaches of fantasy itself, but TWO resigning for the same reason? Sorry pink. I don't buy it.


I note that you still don't dare address what the reports actually say. Instead you use your standard Alex123 "appeal to authority" --

"Well, clearly there is no way to refute the evidence, therefore I will pretend that career bureaucrats know more about statistics and epidemiology than the humanitarian aid workers in the field who gathered, analyzed, and presented the evidence. The fact that what the bureaucrats say directly contradicts the studies means nothing -- after all, bureaucrats are never wrong."

If you are not prepared to address what the studies themselves say, why are you still bothering to respond?

pinky


--------------------


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Xlea321]
    #1493074 - 04/25/03 02:16 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Alex123 writes:

That's funny coming from a rabid right-winger.

As you are well aware, I am neither rabid nor a right-winger.

I realize that you are terrified to even read, let alone address, the actual studies I have provided here, but let me ease your fears for you --

As a rule, humanitarian aid workers are not right-wing. It is pretty unlikely that the UNICEF crew who ran the studies and produced the reports have subscriptions to National Review Magazine or have their families tape Fox News every night and send it to them in Care packages. The folks who produced the report are your kind of people, Alex. Why do you fear what they have to say?

pinky


--------------------


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Phred]
    #1493284 - 04/25/03 03:13 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Instead you use your standard Alex123 "appeal to authority"

No appeal to authority pink. I just don't believe your right-wing conspiracy plot that all these UN experts resigning in protest at the genocidal sanctions policy are all doing it just to spite you.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Edited by Alex123 (04/25/03 03:16 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Human Rights... the Bush Way [Re: Phred]
    #1493293 - 04/25/03 03:15 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

The folks who produced the report are your kind of people, Alex

So you are convinced that two highly placed UN experts have read reports on Iraq and for no reason whatsoever, resigned highly paid jobs and stated the sanctions policy is genocidal. Do you really think that is likely outside of a right-wing conspiracy movie?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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