|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show
#14780675 - 07/17/11 08:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Has anyone else seen this? They're showing a scientist repeating this famous experiment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment
If I understand it correctly, this experiment is famous for demonstrating that photons of light simultaneously act like particles and waves. That much I can dig. Then they go on to claim that the experiment proves that photons can be two places at once. OK that seems like shakier ground but in his book Physics of the Impossible Michio Kaku theorizes that in the whole universe and throughout all time there's only one electron in all those different places and all those different times all at once. Kaku isn't saying he's totally proven it though, just that there's evidence to support the case. I've read about Schrödinger's cat and similar ideas but I'm not sure anyone can say it's proven. But anyway, on the show, they take it one step further, and claim that this scientist has an extremely high-tech camera that could film the photon acting as a wave and particle and being in tow places at once at the same time but when he turns the camera on the photons change their behavior and act as a particle only. The evidence supposedly being that the light on the wall (after going through the slits) becomes just two slits as opposed to the several slits that show on the wall when his camera is off. I know that quantum theorists believe that observation affects reality, but really?
So anyway, when I'm watching the show I think, shit man I should rewind this and write down the scientist's name. But then I thought, fuck it, I can just Google some key words and get it later. But Google hasn't led me there. Does anybody know what I'm talking about, know the name of the scientist, or have any other comments about this subject?
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
5HTSynaptrip
Dopamine Enthusiast



Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 4,360
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#14780719 - 07/17/11 08:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Thomas Young
Info about it can be read here in a broad scope. Wave-Particle Duality
--------------------
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.
|
audiophoenix
Find Peace



Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 4,107
Loc: Upstate NY
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#14780721 - 07/17/11 08:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I am familiar with this experiment and like you I was skeptical.
Here is a video that really helps make it clear what is happening.
Now I have heard that the camera they are using is a Gama Ray device of some sort which I was told by a physics professor will interfere with the experiment and alter the behavior of the electrons.
I don't know if that is a fact I am just sharing what I was told. But at any rate it is strange and I love it.
--------------------
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: 5HTSynaptrip]
#14780774 - 07/17/11 08:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
5HTSynaptrip said: Thomas Young
Info about it can be read here in a broad scope. Wave-Particle Duality
This just gets curiouser and curiouser! Talk about a Schrödinger's cat!
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: audiophoenix]
#14780808 - 07/17/11 08:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
audiophoenix said: I am familiar with this experiment and like you I was skeptical.
Here is a video that really helps make it clear what is happening.
Now I have heard that the camera they are using is a Gama Ray device of some sort which I was told by a physics professor will interfere with the experiment and alter the behavior of the electrons.
I don't know if that is a fact I am just sharing what I was told. But at any rate it is strange and I love it.
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Thanks, that's a great video. One thing I think might be misleading about it though is that maybe that machine doesn't really just shoot out single electrons but actually single electrons working in tandem with photons. About your professor, just plain horse sense kind of tells you he's right. Then again, I might be wrong about the photons and your professor.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#14784812 - 07/18/11 02:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Last night I watched another Wormhole episode and they mentioned one theory that suggested that because we have evolved under the shield of the magnetic field our brains have developed a way of controlling electrons that we don't yet understand.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,171
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#14794976 - 07/19/11 08:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
hmmm...
I would say if you find this stuff interesting, you might consider exploring some avenues that aren't guided by hand-holding analogy and metaphor. The biggest problem with a lot of the misconceptions and mystic philosophizing of quantum mechanics arises from the widespread use of analogies that really are wholly insufficient in describing nature.
I understand most peoples trepidation in exploring the mathematical formulation of physics, but the truth is that the best language we have to describe the phenomena you are discussing is mathematics. The English language, even when spoken by a gifted orator such as Morgan Freeman cannot do justice to the truth. The real beauty is in the mathematics, and you would be surprised at how lucid these ideas become when they are expressed in that language.
I occasionally watch popular science presentations of physics as well, but the analogies provide only a small glimmer of the truth. There are many introductions to modern physics (special relativity and quantum mechanics) out there that express the concepts using mathematical derivations without the need for a doctorate in math. You can learn a lot with just some basic calculus and algebra.
Kudos to you for exploring the beauty that is physics, I would just recommend you--or anyone--at least attempt to explore it through mathematics and I think you will realize that it is even more amazing and beautiful when you do away with the inadequate analogies.
--------------------
Signature (up to 750 characters).
|
ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: cortex]
#14795610 - 07/19/11 11:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Unfortunately/fortunately, in this case, all the mathematics in the world isn't going to make the interpretation of said math any less bewildering...
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: cortex]
#14796452 - 07/20/11 06:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
1) You're a good writer. 2) I do want to work on my math. I started practicing math again a few years ago and then gave it up after a couple of years. I don't know how far I am from it helping me understand quantum physics but at the least, it makes your brain feel good to exercise it.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
5HTSynaptrip
Dopamine Enthusiast



Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 4,360
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#14796981 - 07/20/11 09:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I've only taken a full year of physics, so that means I've only done simple things like vectors, forces, electric field, etc. I can say that being a chem/neuroscience major left a lot of holes in my understanding of things, especially units like the Joule and volt, and while physics wasn't required I took it anyways and it turned out to be one of my favorite classes ever. I lack the mathematical expertise required to go into complex physics, but even physics 1 & 2 really opened my eyes to a lot. When you can look at something as simple as a problem dealing with a hypothetical car accident and find some unknown variable from the ridiculous formulas used in physics, which I find the derivations incredibly interesting, it's pretty cool. It was one of those classes that you could actually apply to real scenarios in life.
There's a quite a bit you can do in physics without knowing calculus as well, but a good understanding of trigonometry is pretty much paramount.
--------------------
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.
|
cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,171
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#14797049 - 07/20/11 10:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Chuang : I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to. In my (thus far limited) experience the mathematics makes these concepts much more concrete and does away with the bewilderment. The "duality" of quantum mechanical objects arises only from our attempts to describe them with words and intuition about how we naturally perceive nature. There is no "duality" of physics, just of the language.
Nature does not care what we choose to call these objects, they just are what they are, which is neither "particle" or "wave". When described according to the mathematics of wave mechanics these objects no longer possess the bewildering ambiguity that troubles so many people. The confusion, it seems to me, arises only from our language.
SunRa: thanks for the kind words, I take a lot of pride in my writing. Despite my apparent clarity on the subject, I am really not much further along than yourself. Shows like "Through the Wormhole" are what inspired me to explore physics in more detail in the first place, and I too still struggle with the mathematics on a regular basis. Good luck!
--------------------
Signature (up to 750 characters).
|
Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: cortex]
#14797314 - 07/20/11 11:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Violations of Bell's Inequality are COMPLETELY bewildering and no amount of understanding the math takes anything away from that.
It makes absolutely no sense at all (to me anyway), and yet there it is, irrefutable.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
|
ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: cortex]
#14797456 - 07/20/11 11:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
cortex said: Chuang : I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to. In my (thus far limited) experience the mathematics makes these concepts much more concrete and does away with the bewilderment. The "duality" of quantum mechanical objects arises only from our attempts to describe them with words and intuition about how we naturally perceive nature. There is no "duality" of physics, just of the language.
While the mathematical object that we use to describe an electron traveling through a double-slit experiment may be the same in all cases (not a duality), there is absolutely nothing in the math that tells us whether we will see a one slit pattern or a two slit pattern for any given set up. It is incumbent on us to correctly determine what constitutes a measurement at one or both of the slits which determines whether or not to apply an operator which will determine whether or not the observed pattern will be correctly predicted.
The idea of a "measurement" or an "observation" isn't even in the math. There are wave functions and there are operators that act on them. We just know that whenever we observe something, we apply the appropriate operator to our model wave function since when we observe something in real life, the "real" wave function changes accordingly.
The problem is, even though we use quantum mechanics every day, and it is an extremely powerful predictive tool, we still have no fucking idea what actually constitutes an observation. It's completely bewildering.
The Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment was devised almost 80 years ago and we have not much better a grasp on measurement now than we did then.
|
cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,171
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14797593 - 07/20/11 12:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Intriguing stuff man. I was referring to the specific case of Complementarity and the dual nature of the subatomic world. It just seems like if we didn't use analogies like planetary model of atoms and nomenclature such as "particle" and "wave" we could avoid some of the confusion that often arises.
I certainly cannot deny that QM is full of mysterious and bewildering concepts, I was just trying to say that mathematics is an infinitely better language to describe the physics. Maybe I took my point a little too far and generalized though. Like I said I'm still a beginner in all of this, I'm just now working my through one dimensional Schrödinger equations and the "particle in a box".
--------------------
Signature (up to 750 characters).
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: cortex]
#14802730 - 07/21/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Anyway, if anyone still cares, the name of the quantum physicist used on the show I saw is Anton Zeilinger.
Quote:
Anton Zeilinger Biosketch In the 1970s, Anton Zeilinger started his work on the foundations of quantum mechanics with neutron interferometry (initially together with H. Rauch). These experiments included confirmation of the sign change of a spinor phase upon rotation, precision tests of the linearity of the Schrödinger equation, and many other fundamental tests. Going beyond single-particle phenomena, Zeilinger in the mid-1980s became interested in quantum entanglement, initially with photons, now also with atoms. His most significant contribution are what is today called “GHZ states”. These were the first multi-particle states discovered (with Greenberger and Horne) in 1986 and experimentally realized by Zeilinger and his group in 1998. Such multi-particle entanglement states have become essential in fundamental tests of quantum mechanics and in quantum information science, most notably in quantum computation. Since then, Zeilinger has performed many experiments with entangled photons, including quantum teleportation, quantum cryptography, all-optical one-way quantum computation and a number of quantum gates. In single-particle interference, he has performed a number of experiments in atom interferometry and pioneered quantum interference of large molecules, like C60 and C70. Later experiments included very detailed studies of quantum decoherence by scattering and by radiation coupling to the environment. The technological progress in all these fields is making new fundamental tests possible. Most recently, Zeilinger became interested in tests of Leggett-type nonlocal theories, in experiments on Kochen-Specker predictions and in fundamental phenomena in quantum entanglement of ultracold atoms. The most important stages in the career of Anton Zeilinger include the Technical University of Vienna, M.I.T., the Technical University of Munich, the University of Innsbruck, the Collége de France, the University of Vienna and the Austrian Academy of Sciences.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#14805447 - 07/21/11 08:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
In my opinion, the conclusions of the double slit experiment are at best an assumption and at worst utterly false, and has spawned a false practice people call "quantam mechanics"
The conclusions that
1. light is both a particle and a wave
and
2. superpositions in general
are a blunder of "science"
Superpositions cannot be poperly tested, thus superpositions and furhermore quantam mechanics should not be considered science.
The young experiment actually supports an "Aether" or vaccum-medium based theory in my opinion.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14805461 - 07/21/11 08:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Your opinion is ill informed and contrary to evidence.
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: DieCommie]
#14805524 - 07/21/11 09:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I have studied the double slit experiment in detail but perhaps i have not yet seen some evidence...
Care to indulge?
My undertanding is that when you attempt to observe which slit an electron passes through, it breaks the interference pattern.
Thus you cannot actually observe the assumed "evidence."
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14805578 - 07/21/11 09:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
The interference pattern is the observation. The evidence is simple, and clear as day.
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: DieCommie]
#14805610 - 07/21/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Have you actually really studied the double slit experiment?
The interferance pattern could have other explanations
Such as;
The particle makes waves through the vaccum medium which itself travels through both slits, while the particle travels through only one, but who's path is altered by the way the "vaccum waves" popegate and interfere.
IMO the evidence fits this theory better.
it is blunder to assume the interferance pattern itself is evidence of particle-wave duality and superpositions without ever actually observing the particles in action.
Just acknowledge that is an assuption is all i ask as a scientist.
|
cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,171
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins] 1
#14805748 - 07/21/11 09:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Welcome to 1899, good sir! May I interest you in a heliocentric universe, or perhaps some elemental fire! Jolly good, than!
--------------------
Signature (up to 750 characters).
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14805824 - 07/21/11 10:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shins said: The particle makes waves through the vaccum medium which itself travels through both slits, while the particle travels through only one, but who's path is altered by the way the "vaccum waves" popegate and interfere.
IMO the evidence fits this theory better.
Then use it and show us how you get an interference pattern from it. Without the math you are just babbling nonsense. Dont make baseless claims, back them up.
Here is the clear, and simple description of the double slit. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html
If your idea cant produce the same numeric answers, then its shit.
|
ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14806153 - 07/21/11 11:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shins said: The particle makes waves through the vaccum medium which itself travels through both slits, while the particle travels through only one, but who's path is altered by the way the "vaccum waves" popegate and interfere.
IMO the evidence fits this theory better.
Ignoring the fact that you have not given any actual explanation of how that would work, the ether (vacuum medium? wtf?) itself has been categorically rejected by experiment after experiment over the past 100+ years.
|
Mr. Anderson
πριν από το χρόνο κάποιου


Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,677
Loc: Torn between the roots of...
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14806204 - 07/21/11 11:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
When dealing with quantum physics logic pretty much goes out the window. This theory isn't new either.
--------------------
Disclaimer: All posts are completely fictional and or for educational purposes only.
|
ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Mr. Anderson]
#14806211 - 07/21/11 11:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mr. Anderson said: When dealing with quantum physics logic pretty much goes out the window. This theory isn't new either.
Logic doesn't go out the window, "common sense" and intuition do.
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14806228 - 07/21/11 11:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
My main point is that the experiment doesn't empirically prove light-wave duality or superpositions either.
Aether theories basically just say that a vaccum or "aether" is a medium of sorts not nothingness.
Everyone talks big about how mainstream physics turned away from aether like some kind of fallacious authoritarian argument.
Where are the actual "experiments after experiments" disproving the possibility of a vaccum-medium?
Just one?
I also don't have to confuse you with math to talk about basic concepts, if i had problems i would express it mathematically, but sometimes you don't need to.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14806283 - 07/21/11 11:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
.
Edited by DieCommie (11/09/16 05:17 PM)
|
ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14806316 - 07/21/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shins said: My main point is that the experiment doesn't empirically prove light-wave duality or superpositions either.
No experiment ever proves any theory.
Quote:
Aether theories basically just say that a vaccum or "aether" is a medium of sorts not nothingness.
I'm very, very aware of ether theories.
Quote:
Everyone talks big about how mainstream physics turned away from aether like some kind of fallacious authoritarian argument.
Pretty much.
Quote:
Where are the actual "experiments after experiments" disproving the possibility of a vaccum-medium?
I'm sure you know about "the" Michelson-Morley experiment. It was repeated in various forms by Miller, Kennedy, Piccard & Stahel, and so on... More recently, variations of the Kennedy–Thorndike experiment have been done by a dozen or more groups which confirm the results to a much higher precision. Search google scholar, pubmed, or whatever you like for article after article detailing these experiments. The wikipedia page on the Michelson-Morley experiment lists references to a lot of these.
Quote:
Just one?
It only takes on counter-example to disprove a theory.
Quote:
I also don't have to confuse you with math to talk about basic concepts, if i had problems i would express it mathematically, but sometimes you don't need to.
You think math would confuse me? You haven't provided a mathematical or non-mathematical explanation of how your theory would explain interference patterns in the double slit experiment.
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14806396 - 07/22/11 12:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
As i understand it, the Michelson–Morley experiment did not disprove the existance of an aether, but simply failed to prove it.
It was pivotal in the shift away fron aether, which i think was done in haste.
The experiment itself or the basis for the experiment may have been flawed.
|
ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14806569 - 07/22/11 01:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Now I'm starting to think you're just fucking with us...
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14806613 - 07/22/11 01:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shins said: As i understand it, the Michelson–Morley experiment did not disprove the existance of an aether, but simply failed to prove it.
You don't understand it correctly. The results of the experiment not only don't substantiate aether, they are necessarily inconsistent with it.
|
Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14807467 - 07/22/11 08:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
The young experiment actually supports an "Aether" or vaccum-medium based theory in my opinion.
Can you explain to me how aether theory can lead to the invention of the CPU in your computer or the hard drive, or MRI machines in hospitals, or explain why diamonds are hard and transparent, or allow the invention of advanced new drugs, or nuclear power plants and weapons, or explain why water expands when it freezes while other liquids contract?
I ask because those things were invented as a direct result of the knowledge given us by quantum theory.
What you're saying makes as much sense as stating that condensation theory is wrong and the reason a cold glass of lemonade in the summer gets dripping with water is because there are really tiny holes in the glass, not because water condenses as predicted by condensation theory.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
|
ShroomBerry
Stranger

Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 2
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Diploid]
#14810299 - 07/22/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
The double slit experiment becomes fully intelligible when viewed in the context of the Many World's interpretation of quantum theory. You must assume that
1) Multiple universes exist. 2) These universes interfere with each other in a particular way. 3) The consequence of this interference are changes in the relative number of universes in which particular events occur.
As long as we deny the reality of the multiverse, the double slit experiment will continue to confuse and mystify.
At least that's what I got from quantum theory chapter of The Physics of Stargates: Parallel Universes, Time Travel, and the Enigma of Wormhole Physics by Enrico Rodrigo (2010).
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: ShroomBerry]
#14810398 - 07/22/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
The double slit experiment is just as adequately described using the many worlds interpretation as it is with the copenhagen interpretation. There is no observational difference between the two, leaving the interpretation as a broader philosophical question rather than a scientific one. (With respect to occam razor, the copenhagen interpretation is superior because it assumes less.)
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Diploid]
#14810432 - 07/22/11 07:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Diploid said: The young experiment actually supports an "Aether" or vaccum-medium based theory in my opinion.
Can you explain to me how aether theory can lead to the invention of the CPU in your computer or the hard drive, or MRI machines in hospitals, or explain why diamonds are hard and transparent, or allow the invention of advanced new drugs, or nuclear power plants and weapons, or explain why water expands when it freezes while other liquids contract?
Do i need to, is this another fallacious argument? (y/n?) Y.
Quote:
I ask because those things were invented as a direct result of the knowledge given us by quantum theory.
That's great, what's your point?
What you're saying makes as much sense as stating that condensation theory is wrong and the reason a cold glass of lemonade in the summer gets dripping with water is because there are really tiny holes in the glass, not because water condenses as predicted by condensation theory.
Maybe you misundertand me.
ill repeat again;
Prove that the double slit experiments empirically prove light partice-wave duality and supoerpositions.
They don't
You guys are all concentrating on my scraping the surface of an alternate theory and completely disregarding my main point which i will repeat again.
The doublle slit experiment does not prove light partice-wave duality or superpositions empirically.
These concepts are assumptions despite what you may believe.
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14810616 - 07/22/11 07:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The doublle slit experiment does not prove light partice-wave duality or superpositions empirically.
These concepts are assumptions despite what you may believe.
... and with a wave of your hand, we move from science to philosophy. Everything is an assumption, no? Can anything be proven? Perhaps this is all a dream...
Quote:
Prove that the double slit experiments empirically prove light partice-wave duality and supoerpositions.
Back to science? Ok, then the double slit experiments prove that "light" behaves as (or has characteristics of) both a wave and a particle. We have several theories to try and describe why this is is. We have several mathematical methods that model the behavior observed. Are these proofs? No, not at all. However, until something better comes along, they are all we have.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,171
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins] 1
#14811215 - 07/22/11 10:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Way to derail yet another good thread in S&T into yet another "mainstream science's evil agenda against truth" thread. Thanks. Let's just jump the shark completely and talk about free energy.
--------------------
Signature (up to 750 characters).
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: cortex]
#14811357 - 07/22/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Nice ad hominum personal attack Mr. "scientist" show your proof of light particle-wave duality and proof of superposition.
Come on, get down from your high horse and show some real science.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14811405 - 07/22/11 11:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shins said: Nice ad hominum personal attack Mr. "scientist" show your proof of light particle-wave duality and proof of superposition.
Come on, get down from your high horse and show some real science.
Hes right. You are derailing the thread with your conspiracy theories. Its rare that we get a good discussion on intriguing concepts and you are ruining it.
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: DieCommie]
#14811439 - 07/22/11 11:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
What conspiracy theories?
Seriosuly smarten up, cut the crap.
Prove particle-wave duality in light and prove superpositions.
Quote:
If I understand it correctly, this experiment is famous for demonstrating that photons of light simultaneously act like particles and waves. That much I can dig. Then they go on to claim that the experiment proves that photons can be two places at once.
Origonal post right there.
I am not derailing this thread at all.
I am derailing your ego.
Your ego and personalisms doesn't change the lack of empirical evidence to prove light wave-particle duality or superpositions.
|
cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,171
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14811651 - 07/23/11 12:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
This is just getting ridiculous. Multiple people have responded to you attempting to explain the holes in your logic in a respectful and clear manner, yet you continue trolling with the same vague accusations and apparent ignorance of the underlying scientific and mathematical concepts. You keep using terms like "ego", "proof", and "mainstream science", none of which are part of any fruitful scientific dialog.
I have no problem exploring alternative theories to explain physical phenomena, but if you expect to be taken seriously at all, the burden of "proof"--as you put it-- is on you, my friend, no one else. Quantum Mechanics beautifully explains these phenomenon through the work of hundreds of brilliant scientists and thousands of peer reviewed papers. It's incredibly accurate in describing nature.
The information you perpetually ask for in thread is out there in endless places if you look, do not expect us to do your research for you. If you want people to consider your ideas, than show us how your model can make predictions that are more accurate than QM. I would be very, very intrigued to see what you have and do not worry about confusing us with the mathematics, there are some pretty smart people here.
--------------------
Signature (up to 750 characters).
|
dzza


Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 143
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: cortex]
#14811839 - 07/23/11 01:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I had the opportunity to repeat this experiment in the lab using a light-sealed box, a helium neon laser tuned down in intensity so as ensure just one photon in the box at a time, single and double slits, and a photomultiplier tube that would sweep the area behind the slit. It wasn't that difficult of an experiment to reproduce, and it's worth it to see for yourself the results.
|
johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14811939 - 07/23/11 02:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shins said: Have you actually really studied the double slit experiment?
The interferance pattern could have other explanations
Such as;
The particle makes waves through the vaccum medium which itself travels through both slits, while the particle travels through only one, but who's path is altered by the way the "vaccum waves" popegate and interfere.
IMO the evidence fits this theory better.
How does that interpretation explain the observed results: How does one electron create an interference pattern via this aether?
You say that the electron only goes through one slit and the 'aether waves' go through both. Given this, there is nothing for the electron to interfere with, and no matter how turbulent the sea of aether is, it will only displace the electron from its expected trajectory, there would remain nothing for it to interfere with.
Further, if the aether were disturbed by one tiny particle to such a great extent to have these large influences on its trajectory (yielding pseud-interference patterns with macroscopic distances between adjacent fringes on the film), why haven't any of the aether experiments and other equipment detected it? Interferometers designed for all manner of purposes, such as the amazingly sensitive gravity wave detectors, would surely have detected much, much, smaller discrepancies than these the minute they were turned on.
Quote:
it is blunder to assume the interferance pattern itself is evidence of particle-wave duality and superpositions without ever actually observing the particles in action.
Just acknowledge that is an assuption is all i ask as a scientist.
What do you define "observing the particles in action" to be? I would have thought the exposed film which yields the interference pattern would be such an observation, but apparently you don't, so what are you talking about and why is this particular observation necessary?
What are you claiming should be recognized as an assumption, percisely? To a very real extent, all our interpretations are assumptions no matter how directly observed. They are valued because they work in practice, not because they accurately reflect the metaphysical 'reality' of what is occuring- which we can never know anyways.
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: dzza]
#14812141 - 07/23/11 05:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dzza said: I had the opportunity to repeat this experiment in the lab using a light-sealed box, a helium neon laser tuned down in intensity so as ensure just one photon in the box at a time, single and double slits, and a photomultiplier tube that would sweep the area behind the slit. It wasn't that difficult of an experiment to reproduce, and it's worth it to see for yourself the results.

Is it 100% certain that there wasn't even one electron interacting with each photon in the box?
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#14813609 - 07/23/11 01:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said: Is it 100% certain that there wasn't even one electron interacting with each photon in the box?
I'd say it's nearly 100% certain that there was at least one electron interacting with each photon in the box. What of it?
|
Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14813634 - 07/23/11 01:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Do i need to, is this
It's alright for you to ask questions, then you refuse to answer mine when they corner you with logic? I see how it is.
That's great, what's your point?
That the only theory that currently explains the available observations and accurately predicts the results of proposed experiments is quantum mechanics.
Aether theory is falsified by 100 years of experiments, not the least of which (and simplest to set up and run yourself if you wish) is the Michelson-Morley experiment. You can falsify it yourself with consumer grade electronics these days.
Prove that the double slit experiments empirically prove light partice-wave duality and supoerpositions.
Proof doesn't exist in science (math excluded). There is only a giant mountain of consistent evidence and experimental results that strongly suggest particle-wave duality is on the right track while aethers have a mountain of falsifying evidence.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14814028 - 07/23/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ChuangTzu said:
Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said: Is it 100% certain that there wasn't even one electron interacting with each photon in the box?
I'd say it's nearly 100% certain that there was at least one electron interacting with each photon in the box. What of it?
I thought that would mean the electron is the particle and the photon is the wave, like when you throw a stone in a pond. I know that's wrong but I don't understand why.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Diploid]
#14814136 - 07/23/11 03:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Okay if we want to talk more about aether ll give another basic description of why i think "aether" better fits the evidence from the double slit experiment.:
Replace the word "aether" with "space/time".
They are both talking about the same thing.
Mass dispaces space/time.
Einstein referred to this as "spatial displacement"
Photons make waves in the fabric of space/time
Here is the best basic visual reprisentation i could find;
Sether theories say that a vaccum is more than nothingness or a lack of any mass, it is a type of mass in itself, einstein even said this.
Somewhat like an elastic superfluid.
The electrons are always observed going through only one slit or the other when actually observed.
This observed evidence points to the ideas i have been futting foreward.
That the wave and the particle are serparate.
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14814155 - 07/23/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
A note about math:
Math can accurately predict outcomes, but it does not need to explain what is actually going on.
A number of different processses can take place that might fit with the same mathematical outcomes,
I believe that understanding what i actually happenng can lead to more accurate and useful math.
As i understand it as well, some "accepted" math doesn't even fit with the extereme upper or lower scenarios.
Correlation is not causation.
|
cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,171
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: cortex]
#14814427 - 07/23/11 05:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Despite the fact that I generally hate when people do this I am going to quote myself. It's pretty much what you have been doing as you have repeated yourself time and time again.
Quote:
cortex said: hmmm...
I would say if you find this stuff interesting, you might consider exploring some avenues that aren't guided by hand-holding analogy and metaphor. The biggest problem with a lot of the misconceptions and mystic philosophizing of quantum mechanics arises from the widespread use of analogies that really are wholly insufficient in describing nature.
I understand most peoples trepidation in exploring the mathematical formulation of physics, but the truth is that the best language we have to describe the phenomena you are discussing is mathematics. The English language, even when spoken by a gifted orator such as Morgan Freeman cannot do justice to the truth. The real beauty is in the mathematics, and you would be surprised at how lucid these ideas become when they are expressed in that language.
I occasionally watch popular science presentations of physics as well, but the analogies provide only a small glimmer of the truth. There are many introductions to modern physics (special relativity and quantum mechanics) out there that express the concepts using mathematical derivations without the need for a doctorate in math. You can learn a lot with just some basic calculus and algebra.
Kudos to you for exploring the beauty that is physics, I would just recommend you--or anyone--at least attempt to explore it through mathematics and I think you will realize that it is even more amazing and beautiful when you do away with the inadequate analogies.

I am convinced that you do not have any mathematical formulae or data to back up any of your claims. Furthermore, I submit the conjecture that you are incapable of not only formulating a mathematical model, but understanding the ones that you are refuting.
You are using analogies from General Relativity to compare analogies from Quantum Mechanics. You are abstracting ideas further and far, far more literally than they were ever meant to be taken.
It's as if you are taking drawing of horse from a 6-year-old, and adding some features from a Neanderthal cave painting, and putting forth a "theory" that all horses, must obviously look like this:

Say what you want, but I (and a thousand years of science) believe that mathematics is REQUIRED in ACCURATELY describing nature, rather than just "picturing" it.
--------------------
Signature (up to 750 characters).
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: cortex]
#14814570 - 07/23/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
What is the math that proves particle-wave duality and superpositions?
Heres some math:
Number of particles fired at a time = 1 (A)
Number of slits the particle passes through to the best of our observation = 1 (B)
A - B = 0
Quote:
cortex said: Say what you want, but I (and a thousand years of science) believe that mathematics is REQUIRED in ACCURATELY describing nature, rather than just "picturing" it.
I'm not trying to accurately predict outcomes, there are already equasions for that that don't conflict with my theories.
I am trying to model a process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_modelling
Quote:
Scientific modelling is the process of generating abstract, conceptual, graphical and/or mathematical models. Science offers a growing collection of methods, techniques and theory about all kinds of specialized scientific modelling. A scientific model can provide a way to read elements easily which have been broken down to a simpler form.
Quote:
A scientific model seeks to represent empirical objects, phenomena, and physical processes in a logical and objective way. All models are in simulacra, that is, simplified reflections of reality, but, despite their inherent falsity, they are nevertheless extremely useful.[2] Building and disputing models is fundamental to the scientific enterprise. Complete and true representation may be impossible (see non-representational theory), but scientific debate often concerns which is the better model for a given task, e.g., which is the more accurate climate model for seasonal forecasting.
Quote:
A model is evaluated first and foremost by its consistency to empirical data; any model inconsistent with reproducible observations must be modified or rejected.
This is why i reject particle-wave duality and superpositions, their models are not consistant with the empirical data,
Quote:
However, a fit to empirical data alone is not sufficient for a model to be accepted as valid.
This also applies to mathematical models.
Just because the math fits, doesn't mean it is necessarly valid in describing the process of what is actually happening,
Understanding the process better i believe is useful in developing better, more accurate mathematic models.
|
johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14814616 - 07/23/11 06:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
You've criticized others for dismissing yoru claims, yet you have no responded to the clear and direct questions I've posed to you. If you have any well-grounded belief in this explanation it would be trivial to explain how this could produce interference with a single electron and two slits.
Further, the interferometry data from accelerating interferometers should certainly show the results you claim, given the macrscopic dimensions of the observed deflection of the particle due to the aether. In the double slit experiment you can easily create patterns where the distances between fringes is easily visible- how could this be a result of aether effects when no such effects have been observed in the historical experiments or the extraordinarily sensitive interferometers we now have? Surely any acceleration/velocity of the instrument should reveal the presence of the aether if its effects are so prominent.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14814706 - 07/23/11 06:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shins said: What is the math that proves particle-wave duality and superpositions?
Here is a start, great stuff about superpositions http://www.drchinese.com/David/Bell_Theorem_Easy_Math.htm
Let us know what parts are confusing to you.
Beyond simplistic things like that, some linear algebra and calculus can clue you in to the basics of showing how superpositions and particle-wave duality are described. The math describes our observations. You keep saying 'prove', that is a loaded term that is not appropriate for these ideas.
Edited by DieCommie (07/23/11 06:41 PM)
|
ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
#14817211 - 07/24/11 10:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shins said: This is why i reject particle-wave duality and superpositions, their models are not consistant with the empirical data,
Actually, quantum mechanics is the only thing that does fit, and it fits to within measurement error for every single test we've ever devised and carried out. Some of these measurements have been taken to over a dozen decimal places and agree with the predictions made by QM.
Quote:
Understanding the process better i believe is useful in developing better, more accurate mathematic models.
You've shown that you don't understand the process at all.
I really feel like you're just fucking with us.
|
johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14817275 - 07/24/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I doubt it.
Besides aether, he counts jews/illuminanti, chemtrails, 9/11 nonsense, and water fluoridation amongst those promising topics of research unjustly suppressed by the 'man'.
If you can believe in chemtrails, I'm sure you're inventive enough to figure out how aether is being hidden from us by the Jewish NWO conspiracy.
|
cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ


Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,171
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: johnm214]
#14818486 - 07/24/11 03:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Really.... either he is fucking with us or he is trolling the s&t board with off topic garbage. Either way this thread should have been closed about 10 posts ago. Of course such an action will undoubtedly be attributed to "the man" and an attempt to silence views that go against "mainstream sciences' dogma", but really, enough is enough. Some people refuse to see the forest for the trees...
--------------------
Signature (up to 750 characters).
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: johnm214]
#14819201 - 07/24/11 07:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
johnm214 said: If you can believe in chemtrails.
You mean weather modification and cloud seeding?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_control
Edited by Shins (07/24/11 07:10 PM)
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: DieCommie]
#14819245 - 07/24/11 07:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DieCommie said: The math describes our observations.
I thought the math describes our lack of observations...?
|
Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: johnm214]
#14819297 - 07/24/11 07:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
johnm214 said: You've criticized others for dismissing yoru claims, yet you have no responded to the clear and direct questions I've posed to you. If you have any well-grounded belief in this explanation it would be trivial to explain how this could produce interference with a single electron and two slits.
I have described it already...
Quote:
Further, the interferometry data from accelerating interferometers should certainly show the results you claim, given the macrscopic dimensions of the observed deflection of the particle due to the aether. In the double slit experiment you can easily create patterns where the distances between fringes is easily visible- how could this be a result of aether effects when no such effects have been observed in the historical experiments or the extraordinarily sensitive interferometers we now have? Surely any acceleration/velocity of the instrument should reveal the presence of the aether if its effects are so prominent.
Quote:
how could this be a result of aether effects when no such effects have been observed
How could this be a result of superposition when no such effects have been observed?
The interferometry data does not rule out the possibility of an "aether" of some kind.
Check this out;
http://www.gauge-institute.org/Relativity/Michelson.pdf
Quote:
Abstract The Null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment, that ruled out the existence of an immobile Aether, is unexpected only in terms of Galilean Physics. In Special Relativity, that Null result is fully expected, and does not rule out the existence of any Aether. Since textbooks present the Michelson Morley experiment only in terms of Galilean Physics, its meaning is distorted, and misleading. In particular, the Michelson-Morley Experiment cannot, and does not rule out an immobile Aether, or any Aether. Furthermore, the Michelson Morley experiment is not an anomaly explained away by Lorentz contraction, but the most solid confirmation for Relativistic Kinematics. Precision tests of the experiment validate further the formulas of velocity transformations in Special Relativity, and confirm Special Relativity.
|
|