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Invisiblecortex
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins] * 1
    #14805748 - 07/21/11 09:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:monopoly: Welcome to 1899, good sir!  May I interest you in a heliocentric universe, or perhaps some elemental fire!  Jolly good, than!


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
    #14805824 - 07/21/11 10:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
The particle makes waves through the vaccum medium which itself travels through both slits, while the particle travels through only one, but who's path is altered by the way the "vaccum waves" popegate and interfere.

IMO the evidence fits this theory better.




Then use it and show us how you get an interference pattern from it.  Without the math you are just babbling nonsense.  Dont make baseless claims, back them up.


Here is the clear, and simple description of the double slit.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html

If your idea cant produce the same numeric answers, then its shit.  :shrug:

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
    #14806153 - 07/21/11 11:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
The particle makes waves through the vaccum medium which itself travels through both slits, while the particle travels through only one, but who's path is altered by the way the "vaccum waves" popegate and interfere.

IMO the evidence fits this theory better.





Ignoring the fact that you have not given any actual explanation of how that would work, the ether (vacuum medium? wtf?) itself has been categorically rejected by experiment after experiment over the past 100+ years.

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InvisibleMr. Anderson
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14806204 - 07/21/11 11:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

When dealing with quantum physics logic pretty much goes out the window. This theory isn't new either.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Mr. Anderson]
    #14806211 - 07/21/11 11:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Anderson said:
When dealing with quantum physics logic pretty much goes out the window. This theory isn't new either.




Logic doesn't go out the window, "common sense" and intuition do.

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InvisibleShins
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14806228 - 07/21/11 11:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

My main point is that the experiment doesn't empirically prove light-wave duality or superpositions either.

Aether theories basically just say that a vaccum or "aether" is a medium of sorts not nothingness.

Everyone talks big about how mainstream physics turned away from aether like some kind of fallacious authoritarian argument.

Where are the actual "experiments after experiments" disproving the possibility of a vaccum-medium?

Just one?


I also don't have to confuse you with math to talk about basic concepts, if i had problems i would express it mathematically, but sometimes you don't need to.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
    #14806283 - 07/21/11 11:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

.

Edited by DieCommie (11/09/16 05:17 PM)

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
    #14806316 - 07/21/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
My main point is that the experiment doesn't empirically prove light-wave duality or superpositions either.




No experiment ever proves any theory.

Quote:


Aether theories basically just say that a vaccum or "aether" is a medium of sorts not nothingness.




I'm very, very aware of ether theories.

Quote:


Everyone talks big about how mainstream physics turned away from aether like some kind of fallacious authoritarian argument.




Pretty much.

Quote:


Where are the actual "experiments after experiments" disproving the possibility of a vaccum-medium?




I'm sure you know about "the" Michelson-Morley experiment.  It was repeated in various forms by Miller, Kennedy, Piccard & Stahel, and so on...  More recently, variations of the Kennedy–Thorndike experiment have been done by a dozen or more groups which confirm the results to a much higher precision.  Search google scholar, pubmed, or whatever you like for article after article detailing these experiments.  The wikipedia page on the Michelson-Morley experiment lists references to a lot of these.

Quote:


Just one?





It only takes on counter-example to disprove a theory.

Quote:

I also don't have to confuse you with math to talk about basic concepts, if i had problems i would express it mathematically, but sometimes you don't need to.




You think math would confuse me?  You haven't provided a mathematical or non-mathematical explanation of how your theory would explain interference patterns in the double slit experiment.

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InvisibleShins
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14806396 - 07/22/11 12:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

As i understand it, the Michelson–Morley experiment did not disprove the existance of an aether, but simply failed to prove it.

It was pivotal in the shift away fron aether, which i think was done in haste.

The experiment itself or the basis for the experiment may have been flawed.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
    #14806569 - 07/22/11 01:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Now I'm starting to think you're just fucking with us...

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
    #14806613 - 07/22/11 01:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
As i understand it, the Michelson–Morley experiment did not disprove the existance of an aether, but simply failed to prove it.





You don't understand it correctly.  The results of the experiment not only don't substantiate aether, they are necessarily inconsistent with it.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
    #14807467 - 07/22/11 08:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The young experiment actually supports an "Aether" or vaccum-medium based theory in my opinion.

Can you explain to me how aether theory can lead to the invention of the CPU in your computer or the hard drive, or MRI machines in hospitals, or explain why diamonds are hard and transparent, or allow the invention of advanced new drugs, or nuclear power plants and weapons, or explain why water expands when it freezes while other liquids contract?

I ask because those things were invented as a direct result of the knowledge given us by quantum theory.

What you're saying makes as much sense as stating that condensation theory is wrong and the reason a cold glass of lemonade in the summer gets dripping with water is because there are really tiny holes in the glass, not because water condenses as predicted by condensation theory.


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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleShroomBerry
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Diploid]
    #14810299 - 07/22/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The double slit experiment becomes fully intelligible when viewed in the context of the Many World's interpretation of quantum theory.  You must assume that

1) Multiple universes exist.
2) These universes interfere with each other in a particular way.
3) The consequence of this interference are changes in the relative number of universes in which particular events occur.

As long as we deny the reality of the multiverse, the double slit experiment will continue to confuse and mystify.

At least that's what I got from quantum theory chapter of
The Physics of Stargates: Parallel Universes, Time Travel, and the Enigma of Wormhole Physics by Enrico Rodrigo (2010).

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: ShroomBerry]
    #14810398 - 07/22/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The double slit experiment is just as adequately described using the many worlds interpretation as it is with the copenhagen interpretation.  There is no observational difference between the two, leaving the interpretation as a broader philosophical question rather than a scientific one.  (With respect to occam razor, the copenhagen interpretation is superior because it assumes less.)

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InvisibleShins
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Diploid]
    #14810432 - 07/22/11 07:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
The young experiment actually supports an "Aether" or vaccum-medium based theory in my opinion.

Can you explain to me how aether theory can lead to the invention of the CPU in your computer or the hard drive, or MRI machines in hospitals, or explain why diamonds are hard and transparent, or allow the invention of advanced new drugs, or nuclear power plants and weapons, or explain why water expands when it freezes while other liquids contract?




Do i need to, is this another fallacious argument? (y/n?) Y.

Quote:

I ask because those things were invented as a direct result of the knowledge given us by quantum theory.




That's great, what's your point?




What you're saying makes as much sense as stating that condensation theory is wrong and the reason a cold glass of lemonade in the summer gets dripping with water is because there are really tiny holes in the glass, not because water condenses as predicted by condensation theory.




Maybe you misundertand me.

ill repeat again;

Prove that the double slit experiments empirically prove light partice-wave duality and supoerpositions.

They don't

You guys are all concentrating on my scraping the surface of an alternate theory and completely disregarding my main point which i will repeat again.

The doublle slit experiment does not prove light partice-wave duality or superpositions empirically.

These concepts are assumptions despite what you may believe.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
    #14810616 - 07/22/11 07:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The doublle slit experiment does not prove light partice-wave duality or superpositions empirically.

These concepts are assumptions despite what you may believe.




... and with a wave of your hand, we move from science to philosophy.  Everything is an assumption, no?  Can anything be proven?  Perhaps this is all a dream...

Quote:

Prove that the double slit experiments empirically prove light partice-wave duality and supoerpositions.




Back to science?  Ok, then the double slit experiments prove that "light" behaves as (or has characteristics of) both a wave and a particle.  We have several theories to try and describe why this is is.  We have several mathematical methods that model the behavior observed.  Are these proofs?  No, not at all.  However, until something better comes along, they are all we have.


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Invisiblecortex
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins] * 1
    #14811215 - 07/22/11 10:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Way to derail yet another good thread in S&T into yet another "mainstream science's evil agenda against truth" thread.  Thanks.  Let's just jump the shark completely and talk about free energy.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: cortex]
    #14811357 - 07/22/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nice ad hominum personal attack Mr. "scientist" show your proof  of light particle-wave duality and proof of superposition.

Come on, get down from your high horse and show some real science.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: Shins]
    #14811405 - 07/22/11 11:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Nice ad hominum personal attack Mr. "scientist" show your proof  of light particle-wave duality and proof of superposition.

Come on, get down from your high horse and show some real science.




Hes right.  You are derailing the thread with your conspiracy theories.  Its rare that we get a good discussion on intriguing concepts and you are ruining it.  :sad:

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InvisibleShins
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Re: Double-slit light experiment on 'Wormhole' show [Re: DieCommie]
    #14811439 - 07/22/11 11:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What conspiracy theories?

Seriosuly smarten up, cut the crap.

Prove particle-wave duality in light and prove superpositions.

Quote:

If I understand it correctly, this experiment is famous for demonstrating that photons of light simultaneously act like particles and waves. That much I can dig. Then they go on to claim that the experiment proves that photons can be two places at once.




Origonal post right there.

I am not derailing this thread at all.

I am derailing your ego.

Your ego and personalisms doesn't change the lack of empirical evidence to prove light wave-particle duality or superpositions.



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