Home | Community | Message Board


Original Seeds Store - Cannabis Seeds
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineJohnnyRespect
Nomadic Wanderer
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 676
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Supreme court and Cross Burning
    #1477186 - 04/20/03 08:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Greets,
The Supreme Court upheld a ruling that states can ban cross-burning on private property. This means that if I own 500 acres in Montana,and I want to exercize my right to free speech by having a KKK ralley, I can't do it. What do you all think of this?


Note: PLEASE do not think that I support the KKK, I am very much so not in support ofthe, but I am very much so in support of their right to have their meetings / ralleys / redneck gatherings as long as they don't hurt anyone else.


Pz

Johnny R


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,044
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 8 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1477219 - 04/20/03 09:10 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Burning a cross isn't "speech". It's an act, an overt act of racism, generally. It does however have religious undertones. A cross burning I witnessed was preceded by the head guy yelling it represents the "light of christ". IMO is a group busted for this makes a religious defence they'll have a good case that may go back before the SCOTUS.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1477291 - 04/20/03 09:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Cross-burning crosses the line of free speech when it is used to threaten or intimidate someone.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJohnnyRespect
Nomadic Wanderer
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 676
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: silversoul7]
    #1477297 - 04/20/03 09:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

silver - I know that... however, if I'm on my own private farm, is it, or should it still be, illegal?? I think not


pz

Johnny R


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJohnnyRespect
Nomadic Wanderer
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 676
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1477306 - 04/20/03 09:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Lemme re-ask my initial question so we can limit the number of posts that don't deal with it...

If a man decides to burn a cross with his KKK buddies on his own private property where noone else could see unless they were tresspassing on his land, should he have that right?


Pz

Johnny R


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1477346 - 04/20/03 10:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

In that case, yes he should.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1478263 - 04/21/03 06:58 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yeah he should have the right to bun the cross, no matter how gay it looks. I liken it to people's right to burn the flag. That is also meant to intimidate, to an extent.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinegrib
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1478365 - 04/21/03 09:17 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Burning a cross isn't "speech".




If no person nor anothers property is being harmed then an individual should be able to burn a cross, politician in effigy, flag, etc. on private property. I do see this as an erosion of free speech. Cross burning is as much free speech as a PETA member holding a sign in front of Neiman Marcus that depicts slaughtered animals. They are both in bad taste and each is sure to offend someone.

Quote:

It's an act, an overt act of racism, generally.




When I was a child we had a little poem: 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me'. Words, actions... with the absence of violence there should be no crime. It is not the governments place to keep someone from being offended, in fact, one does not have the right to not be offended.

I am a Washington, D.C. native. I am also white. I have gone into restaurants in black areas of DC and they ignored me which was there way of refusing service. So what? I went somewhere else. That was overt racism but I don't care. If they don't want my money someone else will.

Maybe I have thicker skin than some?

There will always be mean, trashy people who want to display their ignorance and hate; let them. It shows everyone who and what they are. Respect can't be legislated."


--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


Edited by grib (04/21/03 09:20 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: grib]
    #1478381 - 04/21/03 09:38 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i agree with you...and i'm scared. :smirk:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinegrib
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1478397 - 04/21/03 10:00 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

i agree with you...and i'm scared.




that's the freedom minded part of you trying to get out. go with it.  :wink: 


--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: grib]
    #1478404 - 04/21/03 10:06 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I guess people don't see that there is ALWAYS two sides to every issue when free speech is the issue. Ashcroft said something a few days ago that really pissed me off. He said something like: The media has the right to report what they want but should be penalized if they say something wrong. WTF??

so much for that freedom of the press. I'm no fan of the lefty media sources (CNN, BBC....Al Jazeer..) but they have the right to say anything they want.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (04/21/03 10:24 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinegrib
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1478460 - 04/21/03 10:55 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The media has the right to report what they want but should be penalized if they say something wrong.




penalized? hummmm....

ok reporters, listen up. if you mis-report anything, either purposely or by mistake... well, you will have an expense paid vacation to a lovely little sea-side village: Guantanamo.

Quote:

so much for that freedom of the press. I'm no fan of the lefty media sources (CNN, BBC....Al Jazeer..) but they have the right to say anything they want.




sure, even pinko Pravda


--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


Edited by grib (04/21/03 10:57 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: grib]
    #1478650 - 04/21/03 12:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

When I was a child we had a little poem: 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me'. Words, actions... with the absence of violence there should be no crime. It is not the governments place to keep someone from being offended, in fact, one does not have the right to not be offended.



It's not just about offending. What if a black person moves into a neighborhood and someone burns a cross on their lawn? In that case it's not just harassing that individual, but is actually used to intimidate and threaten them into leaving.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: silversoul7]
    #1478684 - 04/21/03 12:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

It's not just about offending. What if a black person moves into a neighborhood and someone burns a cross on their lawn?




If they burnt the cross in the black man's yard then that would be different and would also count as vandalism. If it's on someone elses property then it should be protected under the 1st amendment as long as the fire doesn't violate any city ordinances.

Quote:

In that case it's not just harassing that individual, but is actually used to intimidate and threaten them into leaving.




can the same be said about the war protestors throwing rocks, bricks and harrasing others?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1478726 - 04/21/03 12:30 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

It's not just about offending. What if a black person moves into a neighborhood and someone burns a cross on their lawn?




If they burnt the cross in the black man's yard then that would be different and would also count as vandalism. If it's on someone elses property then it should be protected under the 1st amendment as long as the fire doesn't violate any city ordinances.



Let's suppose a guy burned a cross on his own lawn, knowing that a black man had just moved in across the street. That could still be used to threaten and intimidate.

Quote:

Quote:

In that case it's not just harassing that individual, but is actually used to intimidate and threaten them into leaving.




can the same be said about the war protestors throwing rocks, bricks and harrasing others?



Indeed it can.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (04/21/03 12:30 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: silversoul7]
    #1478754 - 04/21/03 12:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Let's suppose a guy burned a cross on his own lawn, knowing that a black man had just moved in across the street.




so what, it's his property and he can do what he/she wants. The first amendment gives idiots the right to be one. The same can be said about the war protestors that say that soldiers are purposly killing children, it's ignorant but they have that right.



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1478761 - 04/21/03 12:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Let's suppose a guy burned a cross on his own lawn, knowing that a black man had just moved in across the street.




so what, it's his property and he can do what he/she wants. The first amendment gives idiots the right to be one. The same can be said about the war protestors that say that soldiers are purposly killing children, it's ignorant but they have that right.



Free speech does not protect threats. Why don't you go up to a cop and threaten to kill him, then see if your right to free speech is protected.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (04/21/03 12:47 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: silversoul7]
    #1478767 - 04/21/03 12:50 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Free speech does not protect threats.




where's the threat? (i'm not defending this hypothetical idiot) burning a cross does not equal a lynching.

Quote:

Why don't you go up to a cop and threaten to kill him, then see if your right to free speech is protected.




that's the difference, you actually make a threat.

Can it be assumed that those that burn the American flag should be locked up because it's an act of war on the United States ie: threatening?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1478785 - 04/21/03 12:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Free speech does not protect threats.




where's the threat? (i'm not defending this hypothetical idiot) burning a cross does not equal a lynching.



True, but it could be interpreted as a threat of lynching. It's basically giving the message, "Get out, before something bad happens to you."

Quote:

Quote:

Why don't you go up to a cop and threaten to kill him, then see if your right to free speech is protected.




that's the difference, you actually make a threat.



That's why cases of symbolic speech such as this are difficult. The burning cross could be seen as a threat, but then again, it could just be seen as expressing one's own views. It's hard to tell.

Quote:

Can it be assumed that those that burn the American flag should be locked up because it's an act of war on the United States ie: threatening?



It could be, and I'm not saying that either case is necessarily used as a threat. I'm pretty much on the fence on this one. There are good arguments on both sides.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Supreme court and Cross Burning [Re: silversoul7]
    #1478808 - 04/21/03 01:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

but it could be interpreted as a threat of lynching.




Devil's Advocate:

or it could just be a cross burning. it gets really dangerous when we put an assumption as the arresting factor.

Quote:

"Get out, before something bad happens to you."




or it might say "i'm a white supremacist and this is our symbol".........and i'm an idiot.

Quote:

That's why cases of symbolic speech such as this are difficult. The burning cross could be seen as a threat, but then again, it could just be seen as expressing one's own views. It's hard to tell.




That's why i'm against ALL hate crime legislation. When was the last time there was a crime that hatred wasn't involved? A crime is a crime no matter what color the person is.

Quote:

It could be, and I'm not saying that either case is necessarily used as a threat. I'm pretty much on the fence on this one. There are good arguments on both sides.




It makes me mad when i see people burning the flag but that usually dissolves when i consider their right to do so.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Supreme Court term packed with meaty cases lonestar2004 648 4 10/03/05 04:18 PM
by lonestar2004
* Virginia V. Black - Cross-Burning Case MagicalMystery 256 0 09/08/05 04:57 AM
by MagicalMystery
* Supreme Court Upholds Partial-Birth Abortion Ban
( 1 2 3 all )
Le_Canard 3,802 51 04/23/07 07:54 PM
by zappaisgod
* Dire Consequences with a McCain Supreme Court? danknugz81 554 3 05/16/08 04:26 PM
by zappaisgod
* Supreme Court Legalized Child Porn.
( 1 2 all )
Ellis Dee 2,932 31 06/08/02 04:59 AM
by Anonymous
* Couric asks Palin to name a supreme court case she disagrees with --- 90 seconds of hilarity ensues
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )
supernovasky 8,556 199 10/08/08 12:56 PM
by Phred
* new supreme court nominee has never been a judge afoaf 769 13 10/03/05 10:55 PM
by afoaf
* Guns Rights for the Individual, Gets Day in Supreme Court...!!!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )
SirTripAlot 8,813 176 03/21/08 12:10 PM
by buckwheat

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
1,278 topic views. 1 members, 3 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Original Seeds Store - Cannabis Seeds
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.079 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.