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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: Wise Toad]
    #14764116 - 07/13/11 08:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wise Toad said:
All things are nothing, this existence is mere propaganda of the way down the alley train





You're really good at saying squat. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleWise Toad
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: Icelander]
    #14764163 - 07/13/11 08:41 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

How can you:confused2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: Wise Toad]
    #14764174 - 07/13/11 08:44 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

easily


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: There is no subconscious [Re: xFrockx] * 1
    #14764183 - 07/13/11 08:46 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I its presumptuous and unrealistic to expect us to be aware of all of our own thought patterns.


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InvisibleWise Toad
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: Icelander]
    #14764191 - 07/13/11 08:47 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

So you can say it easily but I cant, this is blasphemy

Im going to see queen jane


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: Wise Toad]
    #14764202 - 07/13/11 08:48 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

:braindamage:  You go girl.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleWise Toad
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: Icelander]
    #14764214 - 07/13/11 08:51 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Where?

Do you mean go to a girl or "oh go to" which is an old english phrase. Or perhaps you mean a go to girl, like a call girl

Or go to queen jane which in bob dylan terms seems to mean dying


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: Wise Toad]
    #14764232 - 07/13/11 08:54 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Where?

Away


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (07/13/11 08:55 PM)


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InvisibleWise Toad
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: Icelander]
    #14764243 - 07/13/11 08:56 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

this is fun


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: DieCommie]
    #14764685 - 07/13/11 10:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Where are the thoughts you are unaware of? How do they exist, in what manner, or state?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: Icelander]
    #14764716 - 07/13/11 10:40 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

xFrockx said:
I know what its supposed to be. I'm saying the idea is bullshit.

From the article:

Quote:

There is a great controversy over the concept of an unconscious in regard to its scientific or rational validity and whether the unconscious mind exists at all.








So are you conscious when you dream?




the conscious mind can be called a waking mind, in which csse you can have a sleeping unconscious mind but the consciousness in both is the same, although the state of mind is different.
i.e. both waking and sleeping are consciousness, and the same principles apply.
images link to other images by association, influences from sensation trigger cascades of thought objects and habits steer the flow.

sleep and waking are not different consciousness that can be at different purposes,
they are just different states for mind and body although the term conscious can refer to awake as opposed to sleeping in common english usage.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: naturesrevolt]
    #14764741 - 07/13/11 10:44 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

naturesrevolt said:
I think the sub-conscious exists mainly because people will do actions without a clear reason of why they did them. Plus there's things we will notice without our active mind knowing about them at first until there is recall occurring.




this is like saying god exists because you do not understand nature.
we do nothing because of reason, everything is habit,
so much is going on at once that combined sensations can be confusing and combinatorial responses can seem inexplicable - this does not mean that there is a separate agency governing our actions - it is the same totality of sensation memory feelings and habit.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
    #14764756 - 07/13/11 10:47 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
so much is going on at once that combined sensations can be confusing and combinatorial responses can seem inexplicable - this does not mean that there is a separate agency governing our actions - it is the same totality of sensation memory feelings and habit.




That's a pretty mossy way of saying it but yeah.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: xFrockx]
    #14764790 - 07/13/11 10:54 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

What is it to be conscious of a thought, OP?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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InvisibleWise Toad
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14764802 - 07/13/11 10:57 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Describe your thinking to me, Im curious as to where it is


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14764806 - 07/13/11 10:57 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Do you have to think in order to speak in english?

Since you obviously answered no, doesn't that show you that there is a part of the mind that does not require conscious thinking in order for it to have an influence over us????

How do dreams not show you that there must be a part of your mind that functions without your own conscious deliberation? Do you consciously make up all the dreams before you sleep??? Is there any choice in the matter of what you dream about? If not, then how do you suppose that you are conscious of the thoughts that cause the dream??? Clearly, you are not choosing most if not all your dreams therefore it shows that there is an autonomous part of your mind that performs mental functions independent to you conscious abilities. Call it what you want, there is still a part of your mind that you are not conscious of, dreams would make that impossible to refute.




try not to equate will or volition with consciousness, will and voliton are a construct, the agency at play is not will or volition - it is a combination of interest, habit, and association during both walking and dreaming moments.

you can observe life and apply concerted moral effort to cultivate habits of value if you are interested in doing so. if you want you can call that will, but it applies to waking and dreaming alike.

interest is the closest we have to the ideas of will or influence.

anyway what influences us it the totality of sensations and memory (association) or habit acting in concert.
this is true in dreams and waking.

a separate agency by name of the subconscious does not create the influence, nor does a principle of conscious (versus subconscious) mind create this influence, it is the totality of the whole operation of mind that develops interest and follows any particular direction.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
    #14764821 - 07/13/11 11:00 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

naturesrevolt said:
I think the sub-conscious exists mainly because people will do actions without a clear reason of why they did them. Plus there's things we will notice without our active mind knowing about them at first until there is recall occurring.




this is like saying god exists because you do not understand nature.
we do nothing because of reason, everything is habit,
so much is going on at once that combined sensations can be confusing and combinatorial responses can seem inexplicable - this does not mean that there is a separate agency governing our actions - it is the same totality of sensation memory feelings and habit.




The subconcious isn't a seperate agency governing our actions. It is a seperate agency that guides some of our actions and largely our experience.

Almost 99.9% of dreams we have are subconcious - meaning they manifest without any intention on our behalf to manifest in the way they do.

The very fact that we experience a dream that we are not concious of, shows that to some extent this mental faculty of which we cannot particularly control, influences our experience to some extent. It would be impossible to argue that it doesn't.

I think you are presuming that it governs our actions and this is not the case always, although it can be.

I would argue that it alters our perceptions and reactions; largely dominates this. However, when it comes to action we do have more control.

I hope that clears somehting up.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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Offlinenaturesrevolt
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: redgreenvines]
    #14764846 - 07/13/11 11:05 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

naturesrevolt said:
I think the sub-conscious exists mainly because people will do actions without a clear reason of why they did them. Plus there's things we will notice without our active mind knowing about them at first until there is recall occurring.




this is like saying god exists because you do not understand nature.
we do nothing because of reason, everything is habit,
so much is going on at once that combined sensations can be confusing and combinatorial responses can seem inexplicable - this does not mean that there is a separate agency governing our actions - it is the same totality of sensation memory feelings and habit.



I think there is evidence of the sub-conscious mind in daily life, if we were to cram all our knowledge into one flow running all the time a decision would never be made, and there would be such a vast stream of thought going through out minds that there would be a permanent stall on thought processes; thus a sub-conscious had to be created just to keep our thoughts as a single stream with lesser stops. I also believe that the sub-conscious mind can only be seen as outward effects through some form of measure since diagramming it is difficult enough. Because of being creatures of habit, we as individual humans can be easily recorded to be made into a constant, or norm. When we deviate from this norm, this can be interpreted as the will of the sub-conscious; unless of course we were acting out against it all along and our true feelings/desires managed to fruit themselves into the light at some point. Consciously, that shouldn't happen, it would be like running with a pack of wolves in wolf's clothing, consciously it's a very stupid idea to take the clothing off; we'll be eaten by wolves, yet it happens frequently in subverted/dual life.
And if you really want to make a god reference in this, try thinking on this: If a person believes there is god, how do they know? It's always claimed that you never see them, but only through their intervention to the world's norm do they claim a god's power exists.


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InvisibleWise Toad
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: naturesrevolt]
    #14764859 - 07/13/11 11:08 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I find this discussion to be quite shallow and pedantic


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: There is no subconscious [Re: Wise Toad] * 3
    #14764893 - 07/13/11 11:13 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

stfu


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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