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WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours?
    #14749608 - 07/11/11 03:39 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So they only low-work WBS prep I've come across is the wash/soak 24hr/dry 4-6hr with no simmer tek. 

I'm not casing grains, there most be a faster method that doesnt take 24+ hours AND doesn't require exuberant drying methods


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14749659 - 07/11/11 04:29 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Think this one may suit your needs.  :tongue2:

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
    #14750636 - 07/11/11 10:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

ah nice!  have you used this tek?


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14750705 - 07/11/11 11:02 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Nosir, I haven't used this tek.  I trust FooMan enough though that I would do this in a heartbeat without batting an eye.  Personally, I opt to do the soak, boil, air dry method due to the volume of WBS I'm allotted to sterilize at once (multiple AA PC's) and have read many posts of folks having success with this tek.

Oatman2000 has a similar tek. 

Just ordered new MS genes (via syringe) from Sporeworks.  Since grain jars are planning to be innoced. using the syringe, as the beginning of a cloning program, only 10-12 jars'll be needed for the initial inoculation of the spores.  Funny this should come up because I was ACTUALLY planning in giving this tek a go to begin new spores in grain jars.

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
    #14751409 - 07/11/11 01:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

the only thing is when drying, increasing the volume will drastically increase the time needed to dry.  He demo's 1/2 quart.  I'd ideally like to do 12-16


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14751802 - 07/11/11 02:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

just do RR's rye prep except as soon as the WBS comes to a boil dump & toss in a strainer for 30-60 minutes & you're done.

Takes me 45 minutes to clean the WBS then soak for 24 hours then another 30 minutes to boil + 45 minutes of tossing every 10 minutes.

I don't see how that's too time consuming.


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14751960 - 07/11/11 03:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

try this out I use it every time doc's wbs tek


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: gus330]
    #14752109 - 07/11/11 03:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

doc's method is a huge pain!

I think im gonna stick to my no-simmer method its much more set and forget friendly


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14752121 - 07/11/11 03:53 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dmonkey1 said:
doc's method is a huge pain!

I think im gonna stick to my no-simmer method its much more set and forget friendly




:wtfsonic: where is this "simmer" thing coming from!?

We don't simmer grains, we BOIL them.


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14752158 - 07/11/11 04:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

bunch of teks want you to reach boiling then lower the temp to a "simmer"  I think all that transferring is silly.


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14752177 - 07/11/11 04:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

do it how you want but mine is tryed and true and works fine for me but to each his own.I never boil my grains I just let it simmer and then strain let it cool and load my jars


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Edited by gus330 (07/11/11 04:05 PM)

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14752295 - 07/11/11 04:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dmonkey1 said:
bunch of teks want you to reach boiling then lower the temp to a "simmer"  I think all that transferring is silly.




well, you're not supposed to. Like I said, for WBS just dump as soon as it hits a boil after the 24 hour soak. For rye, BOIL for 10 minutes after the 24 hour soak.

I only use 1 pot for the whole process. The only time I "transfer" is during the rinse portion.


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14753361 - 07/11/11 08:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I just soak for 24 hour and drain.  no stove needed


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14754909 - 07/12/11 01:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Have you tried CH HELL's 4 hour rye-prep tek ?  Done this one with rye.  Don't see any reason why NOT to try this one with WBS.

Have you peeped Oatman2000's, WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPARATION tek yet?

All of the aforementioned methods and teks of prepping WBS have ALL been proven to work (up to this point in mycological history).  Proper grain preparation techniques are mostly about taking the best, most up-to-date of information gathered, and incorporating that knowledge into prepping any grain.

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
    #14754939 - 07/12/11 01:30 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

twice i have started my soak with boiling water and only soak for 3-4 hours instead of 24. I then simmer for 20 minutes (i have boiled but the grains burst like crazy when i boil) on the lowest heat and dry for another 2-3 hours in a strainer. They have a great moisture content and dont stick together at all. Inoculating with agar takes 2 weeks to colonize. Though this is with wheat berries not wbs.  Prepped in way under 24 hours. :super:

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: deadmandave]
    #14755079 - 07/12/11 02:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hey Monkey, I'll give you the quikness of my prep as it's worked for me everytime without a single contam using WBS!!!

Here we go!

Rinse grains twice (I go 10 lbs at a time roughly)
soak 4-5 hours in warm water,
simmer/boil 10 minutes,
Dump 1/3 into large metal strainer and rinse under hot running water for a little bit (until water looks clean, I don't get too anal about being super clean spawn, a little dirtier works wonders for me!)
I shake the strainer a bit until no more water looks to be dripping from the bottom and start loading my jars/bags right away. I do not wait any time for water to evap off the grains, and just load everything right up!
PC for 90 mins if jars, or 120 mins if 3-4 lbs bags

If I'm only doing one batch, I'll let grains soak overnight until I come home from work and have time to PC.

To date, I've only had issues with maybe 4-6 jars out hundreds, and I think that was due to excess water getting in during pcing... Lid not tight enough and water wicked in through the tyvek.

Hope this helps as I can get grain done from soak to cooling in PC in 7 hours, Pull the bags/jars out 3 hrs after cooling and you have a 10 hour turn around. Give it another 3-5 hours cooling and you can have inoculation in under 15 hours, hows that for speedy? :hamsterdance:


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I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: slapphappypill]
    #14756384 - 07/12/11 11:23 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

word.  Ill try that out :smile:

10 min simmer
:awebig:


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? *DELETED* [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14756809 - 07/12/11 12:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: gagaganja]
    #14757738 - 07/12/11 03:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

the only thing that makes me uncomfortable is the 30-60 min dry.  I usually give it 6 hours.


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? *DELETED* [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14757775 - 07/12/11 03:49 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: gagaganja]
    #14757786 - 07/12/11 03:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dmonkey1 said:
the only thing that makes me uncomfortable is the 30-60 min dry.  I usually give it 6 hours.




If the grains have been heated to boiling in the water. It should take a maximum of 2 hours to dry w/ tossing.

w/out tossing, it used to take my grains 4-6 hours.

Quote:


gagaganja said:

I don't get why people dry for hours, when you let it sit out that long the moisture from inside the seeds are being lost and you want that moisture in them you don't want the surface to be wet because that is just extra moisture that will sit in the jar. At least in my opinion. Here is a test you could do is let half your jars dry for 6 hours and the other half dry so that it's not dripping water and when you stick your hand yes hand not fingers in there few stick to you. And then watch them and see which one worked better




Never had a problem w/ moisture loss when letting them sit for 6 hours.


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? *DELETED* [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14757824 - 07/12/11 03:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: gagaganja]
    #14757831 - 07/12/11 03:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

not since the moisture is inside a sealed grain.

I've let jars sit after PCing on a shelf for 3 weeks & the moisture content was the same as if I had just PCed them the day before.


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"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
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:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14757851 - 07/12/11 03:59 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

TL and I usually never agree.  But he's right on this one


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? *DELETED* [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14757857 - 07/12/11 04:01 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: gagaganja]
    #14757867 - 07/12/11 04:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

osmosis needs a concentration gradient.  when its outside water there is no gradient


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14757980 - 07/12/11 04:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dmonkey1 said:
TL and I usually never agree.  But he's right on this one




:hug:

we normally get along


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"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
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"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14758447 - 07/12/11 06:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I still don't get why you guys let your grains dry at all, I put mine right in jars bags after simmer/rinse, no drying time at all, no fontanels, spawn colonized in 1 week from g2g


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FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: slapphappypill]
    #14758985 - 07/12/11 07:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Also, RR says in his rye prep that you can do a 4 hour soak. Just boil for longer


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"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14759011 - 07/12/11 07:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I just pour boiling water on my wbs let it sit for an hour or too then dry it out on newspaper.

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14759014 - 07/12/11 07:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

slap,

when ever I put very wet wbs or rye into jars and PC it forms a big glob on the bottom that is almost impossible to shake apart.

Idk if you've ever experienced that- but I seem to get it whenever I use a tek that requires both boil/simmer + washing with cold water.


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14759063 - 07/12/11 07:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

:imwithstupid:

every time I've washed WBS (other than the initial rinse), I've had problems.


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"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14759095 - 07/12/11 08:05 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TranscendingLife said:
:imwithstupid:

every time I've washed WBS (other than the initial rinse), I've had problems.





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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14759180 - 07/12/11 08:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

UnnamedGrower said:
I just pour boiling water on my wbs let it sit for an hour or too then dry it out on newspaper.




I've done this too but it's not really my regular prep, and colonization took longer :/.  I usually follow RR's method.

I do always dry my WBS all spread out on my dining room table on newspaper though.

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: drwatson]
    #14759190 - 07/12/11 08:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Well you could always go real ol skool as per TMC and just pc your dry grain with water and shake the jars while they are still hot

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14759445 - 07/12/11 09:18 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dmonkey1 said:
slap,

when ever I put very wet wbs or rye into jars and PC it forms a big glob on the bottom that is almost impossible to shake apart.

Idk if you've ever experienced that- but I seem to get it whenever I use a tek that requires both boil/simmer + washing with cold water.




I use hot tap water for rinse, after PC and inoculation,I shake the jar vigorously and that's it, never a problem for me...


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~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: slapphappypill]
    #14760326 - 07/13/11 12:04 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Soak for 6 hours. Boil for 20 minutes. Drain for 1 hour with it steaming. Mix around occasionally to release steam in a strainer like so.


Mix constantly for the first 5-10 minutes after coming out. The strainer strains 20 jars worth at a time easy. If you want to rush it, you can mix in a handfull or two of dry verm into the batch.

Then load and PC. I have two PC's that hold 10 quarts each, so one run takes about 2-2 1/2 hours to heat up, sterilize for 90 minutes, cool down, and remove and shake while still hot.

So thats about 11-12 hours, and the first 6-8 while you soak can be while your sleeping.

PS, I never rinse the grain, but you could do so before simmering, just never after simmering. The steam is needed to dry the grains quickly, if you rinse after the simmer you cool the grain and stop the steam.


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14760394 - 07/13/11 12:20 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I don't even remember the last time i soaked WBS for 24 hours. I normally do over night which is like 8-12 hours then a quick heating to a simmer then dumped into strainers for 15 mins and into jars. Everything turns out fine.

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: PinsWellWithOthers]
    #14760457 - 07/13/11 12:40 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I love how everything works different for everyone :bigjoint:


--------------------
We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze....

                   

FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: slapphappypill]
    #14760510 - 07/13/11 12:55 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I also rinse before soaking and after soaking and if i have time i sometimes skip the boiling and go straight from rinsing/straining to the jars.

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: PinsWellWithOthers]
    #14760523 - 07/13/11 01:00 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When you rinse before the boil, you rinse off some of the gypsum, which is on the exterior of the grains.

You rinse before the soak, then dump the soak water or just boil in it.

I boil in the soak water to save on water


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14760536 - 07/13/11 01:06 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

True, you should probably rinse before soaking if at all. I find no need to.


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Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14760540 - 07/13/11 01:07 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

slapphappypill said:
I love how everything works different for everyone :bigjoint:



I think there is a big margin of error when it comes to water content and jar preps in general. I'm sure a jar with perfect water content will possibly grow a day or 2 faster from start to finish compared to a nearly perfect. I think as long as pooling isnt excessive on the bottom and the WBS started to expand some as a result of hydration then growth should be fine. This is speeking from my experience with WBS only as i don't work with rye.

Quote:

TranscendingLife said:
When you rinse before the boil, you rinse off some of the gypsum, which is on the exterior of the grains.

You rinse before the soak, then dump the soak water or just boil in it.

I boil in the soak water to save on water



I didn't get into gypsum yet. I used it a while ago but only from smashed up dry wall and the work didn't seem worth the trouble. I have carpal tunnel so the smashing stuff is a lot for me.

Edited by PinsWellWithOthers (07/13/11 01:09 AM)

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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: PinsWellWithOthers]
    #14760554 - 07/13/11 01:15 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I love the soak because I add coffee (balancing pH using hydrated lime)

I get explosive growth


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Re: WBS prep. Any tried method under 28 hours? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14762408 - 07/13/11 12:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I begin WBS with a rinse with tap water until the water comes back MOSTLY clear.  This usually takes about 3-4 rinses with the WBS mix that I use. 

Once WBS is rinsed, I begin the soak with the hottest water I can draw from my tap and add agricultural grade, powdered gypsum at 2% by volume of dry grains.

Beginning the soak with the hottest water possible prevents grains from germinating during the soak.  The addition of gypsum makes available, to the mushroom myce., calcium and sulfur, as well as, preventing clumping in the grains after they've been sterilized.

I only soak my WBS for 4-8 hours.  I'm a firm believer that a shorter soak time can be used when you opt to couple the soak with a 10 minute flash-boil.  Try not to exceed a 10 minutes when boiling WBS (set a timer to keep track of exactly 10 minutes once water reaches 200-205F).  The point of the boil step is to get that proper surface hydration level rapidly, by use of evaporation. 

After the boil, I load the freshly cooked WBS into col lenders and place them on a counter top, stirring them with a large spoon every 15 minutes, with a large fan set to medium blowing over the WBS. 

The time WBS takes to dry is going to be different from cultivator to cultivator.  This is largely due to your personal region's climate and temperature. 

Using the method described above, I'm able to achieve properly hydrated grains (to be loaded in jars or bags , tweeking drying time depending on whether or not I'm innocing. with a dry (G2G, agar wedge) inoculant or, a liquid one (spore syringe or LC)), with in 1 and a half to 3 hours.  That's at an ambient room temp. and humidity of 60F and 27% humidity.

Science project!;  Bring some water to a boil in a small pot.  Once the water is boiling, dump it out in the sink, hold the pot upside down over the sink, and observe what happens to the remaining water, inside the pot.  IT'LL RAPIDLY EVAPORATE AWAY IN MERE SECONDS.  That's the effect the boil step provides for grain preparation.  The trick with WBS specifically, is to not apply TOO much heat to the TINY grain that you begin to excrete the starches from the grain or worse, burst them.

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