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Invisiblemushroomsoup
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Please forgive me if this is a silly idea...
    #14749456 - 07/11/11 02:32 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

okay so I was wondering about the second flushes etc, and I read that cakes stop producing mushrooms cus they run out of nutrients in the cakes...

when you dunk between flushes could you dunk them in say, honey water to try and get some nutrients into the cake?

I probably sound desperate lol but I was just wondering whether this would be possible or not...

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Offlinedmonkey1
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14749510 - 07/11/11 02:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

nope


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Offlineenlightenment
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14749567 - 07/11/11 03:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid:

The honeywater could be colonized by mold very fast. --> high risc of contamination.

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Invisiblemaug
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: enlightenment]
    #14749696 - 07/11/11 05:00 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I was thinking about the same thing, only with water that has been used for fermentation. I read somewhere that when you're fruiting you want the myc to put all it's energy into fruiting and not colonizing. I think you could crumble it and use it for colonizing a fermented substrate.


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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: maug]
    #14749697 - 07/11/11 05:03 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

maug said:
I was thinking about the same thing, only with water that has been used for fermentation. I read somewhere that when you're fruiting you want the myc to put all it's energy into fruiting and not colonizing. I think you could crumble it and use it for colonizing a fermented substrate.




No no and more no. This will not work at all. Dont try. Follow the PF TEK and work with that instead.

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: maug]
    #14749707 - 07/11/11 05:15 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Fermented = bacteria


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OfflineCaptain Chaos
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14749728 - 07/11/11 05:30 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

what if u injected the honey into the middle of the cake? I myself wouldn't do it but would the risk for contam be nearly as bad?(oh ya it would still ferment durrrrr lol)


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Edited by Captain Chaos (07/11/11 05:31 AM)

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Invisiblemaug
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14749763 - 07/11/11 05:49 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Quote:

maug said:
I was thinking about the same thing, only with water that has been used for fermentation. I read somewhere that when you're fruiting you want the myc to put all it's energy into fruiting and not colonizing. I think you could crumble it and use it for colonizing a fermented substrate.




No no and more no. This will not work at all. Dont try. Follow the PF TEK and work with that instead.




It won't work because you've done it?

I'm currently colonizing some fermented straw with some grain that's already flushed two and three times. I don't think you could time it so that it would colonize more substrate and continue flushing on the same timeline. I would guess that what would happen is that it would take time to colonize, or else contam. If you're going to have it colonize more substrate, you may as well wait until it's more or less done flushing.

And the reason for using a fermented substrate is because mold spores can not germinate. Mold and mushroom mycelium can eat the bacteria, but their spores won't germinate. It's a viable option for people wanting to do transfers without a flow hood. And a fruited cake has been exposed to the elements for a long time, so a flow hood wouldn't do as much good.


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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: maug]
    #14749781 - 07/11/11 05:58 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Try injecting weak coffee (with no sugar or milk).I saw it in the old experimental teks somewhere but there was no real follow up too it...lol what have you to lose if it was kept separate?


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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: maug]
    #14749803 - 07/11/11 06:10 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

maug said:
Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Quote:

maug said:
I was thinking about the same thing, only with water that has been used for fermentation. I read somewhere that when you're fruiting you want the myc to put all it's energy into fruiting and not colonizing. I think you could crumble it and use it for colonizing a fermented substrate.




No no and more no. This will not work at all. Dont try. Follow the PF TEK and work with that instead.




It won't work because you've done it?

I'm currently colonizing some fermented straw with some grain that's already flushed two and three times. I don't think you could time it so that it would colonize more substrate and continue flushing on the same timeline. I would guess that what would happen is that it would take time to colonize, or else contam. If you're going to have it colonize more substrate, you may as well wait until it's more or less done flushing.

And the reason for using a fermented substrate is because mold spores can not germinate. Mold and mushroom mycelium can eat the bacteria, but their spores won't germinate. It's a viable option for people wanting to do transfers without a flow hood. And a fruited cake has been exposed to the elements for a long time, so a flow hood wouldn't do as much good.




Still this kind of practice sounds more like beer brewing than growing mushrooms. No new grower needs this.

There are TEKS, proper conduct and a long road to learn and this is useful for the new grower. This senseless crap about stopping mold spores is just the opposite. Its useful no doubt, but later on.

The day we find a way to control germination of mold spores or other contaminants I am sure more experienced growers will write TEKS for that. It has been brought to my attention that there are such TEKS, altough not sanctified by his holiness the pope and the church; I am still doubtful.

Until that day; most of you(not specifically you Maug) who post this senseless crap are just noobs or fantastic thinkers who like to share your thoughts; but cannot for all the mushrooms in the world defend them with science and practice.

Stop (and that goes for all) telling new growers fantastic crap about practices that are both useless and outright dumb. New growers should learn the PF TEK, learn it by heart and study the life of the mycelium first hand.

Experimental trash like this belongs in the "odd parts" bin and sadly most of it tends to end up in the "trashbin". Most of it. Not all.

I will not take more pointers or stupid cursings from newly registered "knowitall" members or people who claim "I used to be so darn leet here, but just newly registered under another name, listen to me.." who supplies these erroneous and stupid fucking practices. You Maug, are not one of them. I wanted to point that out so you dont feel hit. This happens a lot more in other places.

There is a PF TEK and a wall of text concerning the intricate study of the myceliums life. Use it.

Edited by kdmmontana (07/11/11 08:02 AM)

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Invisiblemaug
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14749824 - 07/11/11 06:20 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Naturally, you'll have to read something before you actually do it. It's nothing new.

And there is no magical line dividing noobs and the leet, only one dividing people who can research and follow a tek and those who can't be bothered to try something new.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8729280#8729280


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I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes

Edited by maug (07/11/11 06:48 AM)

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: maug]
    #14750052 - 07/11/11 07:55 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

maug said:
Naturally, you'll have to read something before you actually do it. It's nothing new.

And there is no magical line dividing noobs and the leet, only one dividing people who can research and follow a tek and those who can't be bothered to try something new.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8729280#8729280




Yest, LABS, BIM and BAM, PH and so on and so on.

I couldnt make out half of it anyways and I doubt its useful for new growers anyways. As I said; its back to school for new growers; learning the process by heart. This is way over-kill.

Regular home growers do not have the tools, skill or practical habit for conductich such practices and still the failure rate is always high; to think this TEK has solved contamination forever is to be naive. Not that I think you do, but still a label screaming "EXPERIMENTAL" is in order.

New growers should learn to respect and take care of their substrates and to avoid them becoming contaminated. Removing the barrier or altering the substrate will teach them to disrespect the fact of contamination and that it can occur. IMO still an advanced, yet doable practice that is best saved for later.

"And there is no magical line dividing noobs and the leet, only one dividing people who can research and follow a tek and those who can't be bothered to try something new."

There is, there are two kinds of growers; those who begin studying carefully and following the PF Tek, gradually learning the process and getting to know the mycelium and those who get lost in "super ultra TEKS" and thus miss out on the process. Ive seen and read about dozens of growers who miss to case/coat cakes, fuck up their FC;s, not fruiting properly etc because of stupid unsound advice.

There are no shortcuts into this trade. If I ever have students in the future; I will say.."PF TEK.." "PF TEK"...uuhmmmm!...uuuhmmmm!

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14750093 - 07/11/11 08:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushroomsoup said:
okay so I was wondering about the second flushes etc, and I read that cakes stop producing mushrooms cus they run out of nutrients in the cakes...





Unfortunately, you read something posted by a noob without a clue.

Mushrooms actually begin to fruit when the nutrient load is running out.  This is one of the reasons we get much better flushes when we allow the substrate to consume the nutrients after full colonization before exposing to fruiting conditions.  We call this 'consolidation'.

Nutrients are for plants.  Mushroom mycelium consumes solid food like us, and excretes 'nutrients' in the metabolites. Since I produce a few thousand substrates per month, I get a LOT of metabolites when I 'birth' the substrates.  I collect these, mix with water and drain into our vegetable garden, which causes an explosion of growth.

Thinking one could add 'nutrients' to a substrate during dunking to obtain extra mushroom growth is akin to thinking one could eat his own excrement and drink his own urine to get extra strength to run a marathon.  It just doesn't work that way.
RR


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Invisiblemaug
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14750158 - 07/11/11 08:25 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

@ kdmmontana

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. I simply mentioned a method for re-using spent substrate, and it is very simple. Dunk straw in water for a few days, drain, and crumble your spent substrate on top. Done. There's nothing complex or high-tech to it.

*sigh
I'm done here too.


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I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: maug]
    #14750245 - 07/11/11 08:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

maug said:
@ kdmmontana

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. I simply mentioned a method for re-using spent substrate, and it is very simple. Dunk straw in water for a few days, drain, and crumble your spent substrate on top. Done. There's nothing complex or high-tech to it.

*sigh
I'm done here too.




Im sorry for being so straight on; I know it can be a bit bashful but there are a lot of people who start out with high expectations that get shot down (I was lucky to begin with) when the confusion sets in. Ive read the TEK closer and I came to the conclusion that it was an experiment conducted among a small circle of growers and that it took some pretty lab experience to make it work well.

We are in dire need of re-supplying the forum with dedicated growers pushing newer ones along-side. Ive beaten my keyboard to death over how many "super tek" threads or silly experiments (you may have seen the famous potting soil experiment, which was kind of unsettling)

Point being; there are tons of information here that can lead to total disaster, many growers look for quick shortcuts to high yields (for obvious yet unmentionable reasons) and they pollute the forums with vain arguments over such topics as this one and generally starts fights over wrongful information, dragging other people along.

As I said; we need good TEK people who can help new aspiring growers to get better at their game. Many people end up in dead ends all the time and this can be a turnoff for them.

I assume you are a good grower, I remember you from somewhere I think way back in the days..

Anyways; no biggie. I keep re-editing posts I make early in the morning when Im pissy and strike too hard on the keys..

Good luck with your projects!

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Invisiblemaug
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14750544 - 07/11/11 10:26 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It's hard for me to believe that this tek is all fluff because I've seen it colonize just fine with my own eyes. Not to mention Mycelio is a pretty smart guy, and there's more than enough information in that thread for anyone wanting to try it.

It doesn't require lab experience... You put your straw in a bucket (or 2-liter bottle for smaller scale), and fill it with water, wait, drain, put myc/mushrooms on top, and let it do it's thing. I've had tv dinners with more steps than that.

And I don't think there's any "back in the day", since we both registered about 6 months ago. Just sayin =/


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Invisiblemushroomsoup
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Re: Please forgive me if this is a silly idea... [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14755970 - 07/12/11 09:36 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

mushroomsoup said:
okay so I was wondering about the second flushes etc, and I read that cakes stop producing mushrooms cus they run out of nutrients in the cakes...





Unfortunately, you read something posted by a noob without a clue.

Mushrooms actually begin to fruit when the nutrient load is running out.  This is one of the reasons we get much better flushes when we allow the substrate to consume the nutrients after full colonization before exposing to fruiting conditions.  We call this 'consolidation'.

Nutrients are for plants.  Mushroom mycelium consumes solid food like us, and excretes 'nutrients' in the metabolites. Since I produce a few thousand substrates per month, I get a LOT of metabolites when I 'birth' the substrates.  I collect these, mix with water and drain into our vegetable garden, which causes an explosion of growth.

Thinking one could add 'nutrients' to a substrate during dunking to obtain extra mushroom growth is akin to thinking one could eat his own excrement and drink his own urine to get extra strength to run a marathon.  It just doesn't work that way.
RR




thanks for clearing this up for me, had a feeling it wouldn't work else everyone would be doing it lol I guess I am getting greedy with my cakes :frown:

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