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Vitalux
Stranger from the next universe



Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 2,695
Loc: Canada
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Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood
#14740300 - 07/09/11 10:29 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is there an alternative to using flamable disinfectants to clean the outside of jars?
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I have a small room that I do my flowhood work in.
One of the potential dangers in my work area is fire.
I find using alcohol soaked paper towels to clean the outside of the jars in an enclosed space, while a alcohol lamp is operating, very dangerous. 

It's obviously a fire hazard when using an alcohol lamp and attempting to flame sterile either the syringe or scalpel. Mistakes do happen and things can catch fire. 

It is no fun when you pour alcohol on your gloved hands, only to set fire to them from the alcohol lamp and then do the dance of the flamingo to try and extinguish the fire 
Wishing to find safer ways to disinfect both the bottles and my gloved hands, while working around open flame I am hoping to find alternate methods.
One thought is to have a pot of soapy- disinfectant type water close to my work station during inoculation of the jars ( or grain to grain). Then I could just immerse the jars almost to the neck of the jar, and then wipe the top with a light paper towel soaked in alcohol or something of that nature.
I would speed things up a bit and ensure that all the jar was sterile
 Pot containing disinfectant Sometimes I have 10 cases of jars that I do grain to grain, or inoculate with LC, so having to wipe down by hand that many jars with alcohol can be a lot of work, not to mention the safety issues of having that much alcohol present around the work area, on paper towels, in the advent of fire!
 Alternative solutions for jar sterilization
One has to consider the ironic stupidity of trying to wipe jars down with alcohol while standing next to a alcohol lamp (or torch, often in an enclosed space wearing flammable clothing.
Has anyone else ever tried making a dunk pot, where you just dip the jar to clean it, just before you do a grain to grain etc?
What could I put in that pot that would do the job, but yet not potentially burn the lab down?
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Vitalux]
#14740321 - 07/09/11 10:35 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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i dont use a flowhood but. :my2cents: incoming.
i take jars out the cooker, wipe of with a regular paper towel, and never clean the outside again.
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: k00laid]
#14740392 - 07/09/11 10:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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A 1:10 ratio of bleach:distilled water has been said to work, regular water will degrade the bleach which is why I say distilled
There was some other one I read about thats said to be much better than alcohol, its iodine based I believe iodorol or something; anybody know what that is 
BTW about your gloves, they dont look like latex or kitchen gloves; what type are they. My latex gloves are always tearing and the kitchen gloves are too rigid for mycology but those look like a happy medium
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Wise Toad]
#14740401 - 07/09/11 10:52 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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i believe they are nitrile
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naturesrevolt
StrangerOfAwesome



Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 681
Loc: Missouri
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Wise Toad]
#14740408 - 07/09/11 10:53 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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they look to be sanitation gloves that can be gotten where most industrial cleaning supplies can be bought.
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: naturesrevolt]
#14740439 - 07/09/11 11:00 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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thx
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Vitalux]
#14740528 - 07/09/11 11:20 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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A 10% bleach solution will do it.
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Quick WBS Prep
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Vitalux
Stranger from the next universe



Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 2,695
Loc: Canada
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Wise Toad]
#14740621 - 07/09/11 11:44 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wise Toad said: A 1:10 ratio of bleach:distilled water has been said to work, regular water will degrade the bleach which is why I say distilled
There was some other one I read about thats said to be much better than alcohol, its iodine based I believe iodorol or something; anybody know what that is 
BTW about your gloves, they dont look like latex or kitchen gloves; what type are they. My latex gloves are always tearing and the kitchen gloves are too rigid for mycology but those look like a happy medium
The reason I was a bit confused with bleach, is that I read in another posting by RR that bleach does not kill molds:
re Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I routinely dip outdoor clones in ten percent bleach to kill bacteria. It doesn't hurt the mushroom mycelium or the molds present, so yea, I'm sure. I've also used bleach in many different concentrations on the black mold growing around my bathtub and window sills. Other than bleaching the black spores white, it doesn't bother the mold mycelium. RR
Would be nice or figure something to add to the bleach and distilled water that would also kill the mold.
The gloves I am using are - Aloetouch Ultra, by Medline. I got them from a medical supply store. They are made from Polyvinyl chloride.

As you suggested, I am definitely going to try dipping the jars in a 10% bleach solution prior to inoculating the jars. Like I have heard it said, the more steps one takes in sterile techniques the better.
I still will use the alcohol to sterile my gloves, however I shall be trying to find something that is less flammable.
I am going to pick some iodine up too, and explore using that as well.
thanks for your input
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King Cap
Beginning Mycologist



Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 483
Loc: South Park Colorado
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Vitalux]
#14740670 - 07/09/11 11:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I used to work in a veterinary laboratory at my university. They had me clean all the glassware with methanol followed by acetone, to ensure sterility.
Methanol is obviously quite flammable but I dont know if acetone is flammable or not. Just thought I'd throw that in in case it would help
-------------------- "Snow is like sex. You never know how much your gonna get or how long it's gonna last"
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Vitalux]
#14740678 - 07/09/11 11:59 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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What kinda iodine?
Iv read that post by RR as well, I cant remember the specific context but I think he was referring to killing large patches of mold around the house. He said that it only changes the color but doesnt get deep in and kill them. To more experienced members: the bleach solution is used as a sanitization agent correct, in order to kill mold around the house would you have to use something that sterilizes.
Of course mold growing around the house is much more complicated as it wont go away unless you shut off its source of humidity/water and walls arent very easy to replace
Thanks for the glove info, have any ripped and how flexible are they?
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: King Cap]
#14740687 - 07/09/11 12:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
King Cap said: I dont know if acetone is flammable or not. Just thought I'd throw that in in case it would help
Let me go find out, brb
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gagaganja
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/11
Posts: 58
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood *DELETED* [Re: Wise Toad]
#14740688 - 07/09/11 12:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by gagaganjaReason for deletion: n
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Wise Toad]
#14740708 - 07/09/11 12:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Oh damn, it is most definitely flammable
I poured some in a dip dish I use to make changa with and lit it on fire. That little bit burned for a good minute and wouldnt go out if I blew on it
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myc0nob
Philosopher

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 118
Last seen: 2 months, 27 days
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: gagaganja]
#14740733 - 07/09/11 12:10 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just remember that UV light at the wavelength short enough to sterilize stuff (can cheaply be bought in pet stores etc) are verified carcinogens, it can be used to sterilize stuff in an enclosed space where light will never be exposed to humans tough.
On topic: I'd suppose a bleach+h2o2 mix be good enough ?
Edited by myc0nob (07/09/11 12:11 PM)
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King Cap
Beginning Mycologist



Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 483
Loc: South Park Colorado
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Wise Toad]
#14740997 - 07/09/11 01:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wise Toad said: Oh damn, it is most definitely flammable
I poured some in a dip dish I use to make changa with and lit it on fire. That little bit burned for a good minute and wouldnt go out if I blew on it

Guess that answers that question lol
-------------------- "Snow is like sex. You never know how much your gonna get or how long it's gonna last"
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: myc0nob]
#14741088 - 07/09/11 01:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
myc0nob said: On topic: I'd suppose a bleach+h2o2 mix be good enough ?
dont mix bleach with stuff.
its dangerous yo.
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: k00laid]
#14741155 - 07/09/11 02:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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mix it with acetone and gasoline
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naturesrevolt
StrangerOfAwesome



Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 681
Loc: Missouri
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Wise Toad]
#14741194 - 07/09/11 02:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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don't go mixing bleach, there's a common household cleaning product that will mix with bleach and produce mustard gas.
Sterilization aside, going nuts with all sorts of chems is going to kill you, or toxify what you're trying to make. There's many cleaners out there that can work quite excellent, like Green Works, or mixed up stuff like vinegar and dish soap.
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Vitalux
Stranger from the next universe



Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 2,695
Loc: Canada
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Wise Toad]
#14741287 - 07/09/11 02:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wise Toad said: What kinda iodine?
Thanks for the glove info, have any ripped and how flexible are they?
I am not sure about the iodine type, but I certainly am going to look more into getting a jug of it to keep around as an agent.
tamed iodine [like Betadine] seems to be used to clean any mixing containers, jars, syringes, anything where you want it clean with ZERO residue. This might be a good solution to dip the outside of the jars with just prior to handling the jars for grain to grain or IC.
I am also going to check into to find out what cleaner they use in hospitals to do the surfaces and floors around the operating rooms.
These gloves that I have been using seem to do the job fairly well. I have had them rip on me the odd time, but mostly when I am popping the sealed tops off the 1 qt jars. If I am doing a major quantity of jars, I just put an extra glove on that hand. \ Today I have been studying about disinfectants and sterilizing chemical agents and I have actually learned a great deal. I always thought that javax, chlorine would kill everything. Much to my surprise, it doesn't.
I was also surprise to learn how difficult it actually is to completely sterilize a room completely.
One product for cleaning surface appears to be a quaternary ammonium chloride solution. It is available as a power, so I will have to check more into that to find out how I can get it.
Below is a quote of an older posting I read ( over 10 years old) . I thought was interesting and related to this topic:
Quote:
Shroomzilla said: 70% iso or pure denatured..doesn't matter, as long as it burns clean it will work, its just a matter of what you have on hand.
Surface disinfection is another matter all together. Alcohol is actually a rather poor at killing spores. Other chemicals like chlorine bleach, iodine, or ammonium chloride are better for surface disinfection. 80% iso alcohol requires 10 minutes contact time to kill 99% of encysted spores...simply wiping don't cut it.
I use tamed iodine [like Betadine] to clean any mixing containers, jars, syringes, anything where you want it clean with ZERO residue. You can get Betadine brand at the drug store, brew shops sell the same stuff under various brands. This is the orange stuff they scrub your skin with before surgery or inserting an IV, also used for cleaning and soaking instruments. Kills 'bout everything but is safe enough to apply to the skin, only drawback is that it will stain any porus surface unless wiped off very well, stains will wash out of clothes.
For countertops/ floors/ sinks I use a quaternary ammonium chloride solition. It comes as a dry powder, used in hospitals to clean surfaces in the operating room, ER, anywhere you need it really clean. This stuff is a bit harder to find, I usually get it from a surplus dealer when I can [cheaper]. You can get it online from medical supply co's for about $20 for a 4lb tub [which will mix up about 120 gallons]. It kills everything [better than bleach] yet doesn't have any nasty choking fumes. It also rinses off pretty well leaving little residue, but if you leave it on, it will continue to disinfect the surface for about two weeks. I use it once a month in the shower and NEVER have a mildew problem, or that funky red basteria that can grow in areas that don't drain completely.
Most people use bleach because its cheap and readily available, but there are tons of problems with bleach. First is the smell/ fumes, it is very bad to breath this stuff at all, much less spraying it in the air like some grow guides suggest. It eventually leaves an impossible to remove residue on anything regularly cleaned with it, and is quite corossive to metal. It can also ruin some vinyl floors, and does a hasty number on any clothing it comes in contact with. It will also release poision gas if mixed with most any common household cleaners.
A note on Lysol: This stuff has been around for ages because it does work...to a point. It is quite safe on most surfaces and and does a good job of general cleaning/ disinfecting bacteria, but there are many types of mold spores it will not touch, and as we know mold spores are the #1 enemy. To be really effective [for what it will kill] it needs to be sprayed on heavy and allowed to set for at least 10 min. Spraying the air is useless, the FTC even made them remove the claim that it "disinfects the air" years ago. The only way to kill any airborne bacteria/spores is with a concentrated vapor of very, very deadly chemicals, nothing you or I could lay our hands on or would ever consider using.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,387
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Re: Sterile cleaning of jars without flamable liquids in the flowhood [Re: Vitalux]
#14741951 - 07/09/11 05:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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iodaphor or starsan. bought at brew supply shops/sites
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