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OfflineVisigoth
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Registered: 11/28/01
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Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer
    #1473998 - 04/19/03 08:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry for the stupid title, I had a question. Let's say u make 2 spore syringes, same strain, u make em at the same time in the exact same manner. U innoculate 10 birdseed jars (5 w. each syringe), one group of jars does great and colonizes in about 8 days. The other group looks good until shaken then they never recover. Both groups of jars were prepared in exactly the same way. Now, what could have caused one group to do good and the other to not?? Bad spore print used to make one of the syringes maybe?? Anybody wanna take a stab at this one?? Thanks for the help!!!!

Visigoth


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"15 minutes in freezing conditions?!?! You'd become a popsicle before you made that!!!"


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Anonymous

Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Visigoth]
    #1474013 - 04/19/03 08:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

typically this is attributed to what is known colloquially in the mushroom industry as "magic".


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OfflinePooPs
What's thisfor???

Registered: 03/05/03
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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Visigoth]
    #1474015 - 04/19/03 08:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

spores like seeds..... they are not all equal!!


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Sniff, Sniff... What's that smell???... ohhhhh.!!
------------------


Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..


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OfflineVisigoth
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Registered: 11/28/01
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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: PooPs]
    #1474054 - 04/19/03 08:52 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, so is there anything u can do, look for, etc, that will clue u in on whether the spores will be good or not, other than growing them out on agar of course. It just clicked w. me one of the big reasons that the pros do that!!! When thousands of dollars are at stake, u can't go w. the possibility of bad spores.

Vis


--------------------
"15 minutes in freezing conditions?!?! You'd become a popsicle before you made that!!!"


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OfflinePooPs
What's thisfor???

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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Visigoth]
    #1474076 - 04/19/03 08:57 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

They all look the same.....

Gotta grow them out to know what ya got.


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-----------
Sniff, Sniff... What's that smell???... ohhhhh.!!
------------------


Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..


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Invisiblewoodrow
journeyman
Registered: 03/17/03
Posts: 136
Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Visigoth]
    #1474536 - 04/19/03 11:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

You answered your own questions. One of the prints is contaminated with bacteria. This is not uncommon. And yes, this is why people start with agar.


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InvisibleRoadkill
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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Visigoth]
    #1475321 - 04/20/03 02:29 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer



Sorry I can't answer I'm 43.
:smirk:
 


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Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Offlinecyankid
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Registered: 10/20/00
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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Visigoth]
    #1475575 - 04/20/03 04:43 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Bacteria. Bacillus or Pseudomonas. Probably Bazillus. Grain look wet?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: cyankid]
    #1475624 - 04/20/03 05:46 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Damn you....thats a very good answer....I gotta quit scrolling to the botom fo the page and readin stuff....You get the cookie....

what type of filtration did you have...vermiculite, MMFD or tyvek....not knocking the product I have noticed that you run a better chance of bacterial contam from a filterdisk...they are effective but maybe on in 15 will contract bacillus after they are shaken.... Tyvek have more breathability, and the reasi\on it wont aid in contraction of bacterials (as often) is the density. the tyvek doesn't have the cottony texture of the other...fewer surfaces to hide....the MMFD als absorbs a little of the water as it evaporates and will aid in starting the contamination.



P#1


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OfflineVisigoth
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Registered: 11/28/01
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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1476072 - 04/20/03 11:25 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah they were birdseed jars, regular setup of polyfill and metal lid. They looked great and had good mycelial growth until shaken and then just never recovered, there aren't any contams yet, no bacillus or trich, they just didn't grow back!!! Really weird!!! It seems like the spores did what they were supposed to, after all they did germinate, the mycelium just didn't recover, I couldn't figure it out!!!!

Vis


--------------------
"15 minutes in freezing conditions?!?! You'd become a popsicle before you made that!!!"


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2,791
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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Visigoth]
    #1476096 - 04/20/03 11:36 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Moisture content ?
Poly fil has a tendency of letting out too much moisture , IMHO .


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Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Visigoth]
    #1476411 - 04/20/03 02:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Since the spores in the stalled jars.........germinated. They were viable.

All jars  made up the same & incubated under exact conditions, makes this a puzzle when 5 do well & 5 stall.

If WBS jars are properly PC'ed, the weakest link in the jar........ is the filter material directly around the lid hole.

Most often, where you get a contam in a well done jar is via the filter material (especialy polyfil). The polyfil gets wet, a contam gets on it & it simply wicks into the jar, through the lid hole.

Most often that contam germinates, but is isolated & sticking UNSEEN to the polyfil (as jars are not full). When that jar is shaken, that dispurses the contam into the WBS & it begins colonizing like wildfire.

Because of the possibility of wicking a contam into a jar, via the filter material. My foaf uses tyvek internal filter material & covers the outside of the lids with double coffee filters, to serve as an exterior barrier over the internal filter material.

The puzzle here is, no contam is showing up?

Since the other jars colonized, the moisture content had to be in the same ball park if ALL JARS were PC'ed togather?

If 5 were done at a time, then... that could intro a variable in moisture content......... as 1 batch may have been PC'ed a wee bit longer that the other.

If so & the moisture content in 5 stalled jars might have been MARGINAL (low). It might mean, there was enough moisture that colonization could begin, but after a shaking - they did not recover, as the moisture level may have dropped below the threshold.

Or, last but not least........ ya write it off to.....SHIT HAPPENS & we will never know why :confused:

6T :wink:






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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


Edited by SixTango (04/21/03 02:52 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: SixTango]
    #1477278 - 04/20/03 09:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Many of the bacterial cantams......it just looks liks a wet grain at first and sometime deveveloping into a greasy look and a wide variety of others....believe me...seperate it from the others and keep an eye on it...like 6T said....Tyvek...

Tyvek is a product I had used for some time in several industries, and with this hobby, it has been a life saver....the surfaces are less contam friendly and since it can be autoclaved....it's a great product...my method was...2 layers of tyvek, a 70mm plastic disk with a 5/8 hole between them....it helped to reduce moisture loss and I had maybe 1 in 500 cantam rate if I had done every thing properly...I stopped growing about 3 years ago but I missed the friends on A.D.M...I'm here now and willing to lend my weak knowledge....check the contam FAQ and the forum....


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OfflineVisigoth
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Registered: 11/28/01
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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1497568 - 04/27/03 11:37 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, I was re-reading over this old post and when I saw where Six said the polyfill could get wet it could cause problems. Sometime when innoculating, the tip of the needle doesn't make it out past the polyfill, so when I squeeze the plunger I just see water dripping off the polyfill instead of a stream of spore water shooting out. This could explain some problems right?!?!?!

Vis


--------------------
"15 minutes in freezing conditions?!?! You'd become a popsicle before you made that!!!"


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OfflineVisigoth
enthusiast

Registered: 11/28/01
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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Visigoth]
    #1498107 - 04/27/03 04:33 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

bump


--------------------
"15 minutes in freezing conditions?!?! You'd become a popsicle before you made that!!!"


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: Visigoth]
    #1498116 - 04/27/03 04:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Any moisture or combo of moisture & nutriant on filter material over a WBS or grain jar can cause possible contam's to germinate there & over time wick into the spawn below. Most often, you do not notice it, until you shake - or - open the jar.

6T


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: SixTango]
    #1498210 - 04/27/03 05:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Here is an example of a perfectly colonized quart jar that, tric wicked into, as the contam is only on the surface of the WBS & not noticable, until opened.

:frown:
Here is an example of a G2G jar that fully colonized with myc, then a tiny spot of contam appeared low in the jar, then grew. I suspect, it was a single contam spore that, entered when the G2G took place. That is what happens, when you get "cocky" & fail to take every sterile precaution.
:frown:


Sometimes "sh*t" just happens. The trick is to identify how the "sh*t" is getting there & put a halt to it.

6T :tongue:
 


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineBleedingSickness
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Registered: 08/02/02
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Loc: Northern USA
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Re: I'm a 21 yr. old question seeking 23 yr. old answer [Re: SixTango]
    #1498499 - 04/27/03 07:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It could have happened when you were innoculating, before placing the syringe into the innoculation hole or if your doing it lidless you should always give it a little shake to settle the spores to make sure you have distributed them evenly. On a set of jars I have seen a set of twelve have six grow great and six others that had a few grow and a few not do anything. It's usually just the luck of the draw, but to make things better always shake the dew off the lily and distribute spores evenly


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