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OfflineTruffle Muscle
Ani veAtah Neshane et HaOlam!


Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 298
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Fruiting woes
    #14735021 - 07/08/11 06:44 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I have 31 cakes, just a sitting in their jars, ready to be birthed.
Now here's my problem, nobody has verm, so I can't roll my cakes
post birth. I want my even pinset damnit, and I've tried every mart,
nursery, and hardware shack in the county.

Anybody know of a replacement for verm? It's not really needed as
a contam buffer or anything.

Could I just fine grind some perlite and roll my cakes in that?

Any helps appreciated guys.


--------------------
Hakol Beseder B'Eli Haseder
:dancingbacon:

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: Truffle Muscle]
    #14735080 - 07/08/11 07:15 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Home Depot has big bags. Look in Bay 50 in the garden section.
Also Ace has 8-qt bags. Also, every nursery and garden center in your town has verm or can get it.

Did you go out and look? Or just call a few places?


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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InvisibleSmushroom
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Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 2,806
Re: Fruiting woes [Re: Doc_T]
    #14735096 - 07/08/11 07:24 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hydroponics stores will always have it in stock. Just google around to fine one close by. You can get huge bags for cheap that would last forever.

It is unnecessary for fruiting though. You can just fruit them as is. May not be the most perfect pinset but they will still produce.

Perlite won't work that same as verm.

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InvisibleHorizonSpawn
Gettin' my grow on :)
Male

Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Myco-Tek.org Flag
Re: Fruiting woes [Re: Smushroom]
    #14735341 - 07/08/11 09:04 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I am soooo confused; please forgive me...

...but this is one of several posts with nearly the exact same line of questioning/dilemma...

What I fail to wrap my small brain around is: how did you make your cakes, if you have no vermiculite???


Sorry; I'm a noob :uhoh:


--------------------
Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC...

NOTE:  Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone :frown:

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: HorizonSpawn]
    #14735395 - 07/08/11 09:25 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Youre damn right Horizon.

The person that mentions "soil" in this thread I will be very angry with.

There is no substitute for Verm in casing cakes. No matter what anyone tells you.

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: HorizonSpawn]
    #14737280 - 07/08/11 04:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HorizonSpawn said:
What I fail to wrap my small brain around is: how did you make your cakes, if you have no vermiculite???





Bumping for justice.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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OfflineTruffle Muscle
Ani veAtah Neshane et HaOlam!


Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 298
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Fruiting woes [Re: Doc_T]
    #14739864 - 07/09/11 07:23 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

HorizonSpawn said:
What I fail to wrap my small brain around is: how did you make your cakes, if you have no vermiculite???





Bumping for justice.




My cakes were already made and fully colonized.
I just ran out of vermiculite.
If anybody read my post, I was asking if I could roll in
perlite after I birth the cakes.


--------------------
Hakol Beseder B'Eli Haseder
:dancingbacon:

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InvisibleCarl Sagan
Time Dilation Analyst


Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 922
Loc: Myco-tek.org
Re: Fruiting woes [Re: Truffle Muscle]
    #14739907 - 07/09/11 07:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Truffle Muscle said:
Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

HorizonSpawn said:
What I fail to wrap my small brain around is: how did you make your cakes, if you have no vermiculite???





Bumping for justice.




My cakes were already made and fully colonized.
I just ran out of vermiculite.
If anybody read my post, I was asking if I could roll in
perlite after I birth the cakes.




No


--------------------
“Sacred cows make the best hamburger”

Mark Twain



Independant Research Foundation

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Invisibleloucal
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: Truffle Muscle]
    #14739910 - 07/09/11 07:40 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You could do anything you want.  If you want to grow mushrooms and not green mold and bacteria then don't even ever consider letting your substrate directly touch wet perlite.

Everyone already said it, but verm is available everywhere.  I would be extremely surprised if there is none around.

Forget about the dunk and roll, it is another point for failure, and if your jars have been fully colonized for more than a day then it isn't going to make your pinset more even.  Just birth them.

Ohh and also, pinset is only important if the substrate/conditions are so dialed in that you never get aborts.  I normally don't post in the cubie forum but I would hate for you to roll a cake in perlite, that's just insane :smile:

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InvisibleHorizonSpawn
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: loucal]
    #14739988 - 07/09/11 08:08 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Please forgive me, for I am new to Mycology, BUT...


Quote:

loucal said:
You could do anything you want.  If you want to grow mushrooms and not green mold and bacteria then don't even ever consider letting your substrate directly touch wet perlite.
---I do not follow your logic here...What does perlite have to do with bacterial and mold growth???... Do NOT roll your cakes in perlite for THIS reason:  vermiculite is used to help retain moisture within the substrate, as is readily absorbs moisture. Perlite, on the other hand, does not absorb moisture, but rather, wicks moisture... Rolling your cakes in perlite would have the exact opposite effect than what is desired via its wicking action and the dynamics of osmosis...


Everyone already said it, but verm is available everywhere.  I would be extremely surprised if there is none around.

Forget about the dunk and roll, it is another point for failure, and if your jars have been fully colonized for more than a day then it isn't going to make your pinset more even.  Just birth them.
---HUH?!... The "dunk and roll" is a vital step in the fruiting process; as the hydration of the cake is needed for healthy fruitbody growth. As is the evaporation it facilitates when combined with sufficient FAE...


Ohh and also, pinset is only important if the substrate/conditions are so dialed in that you never get aborts.  I normally don't post in the cubie forum but I would hate for you to roll a cake in perlite, that's just insane :smile:
---In YOUR humble OPINION.






Be blessed :peace:


--------------------
Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC...

NOTE:  Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone :frown:

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Invisibleloucal
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: HorizonSpawn]
    #14740018 - 07/09/11 08:26 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Here is my logic Horizon;

First of all he has 31 cakes, so he can create a fruiting environment if they are arranged in a tub of some sort that can be treated more like one big bulk grow.

Now another thing about having 31 cakes is no matter what you do, you aren't getting a crazy harvest to begin with so I am basically saying you will yield more if you leave them uncased and have a proper fruiting environment than if you rolled them in perlite.  Rolling them in perlite is a big mistake and if you try it you will see what I mean about contams. I certainly doubt it would increase yield but feel free to try it and prove me wrong!  You can put perlite on the bottom of a tub and elevate them a bit over it with wire mesh, that's ok just messy :frown: and a lot of work.  I don't grow cubes, or use cakes so you can totally take my opinion with a grain of salt.  I was just trying to provide some insight to someone who is new and growing a species that I do not work with but know to be much more tolerant of many factors than ones that I do.  My point is less is more, not tryin to start a war :wink:

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: loucal]
    #14740030 - 07/09/11 08:31 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Now another thing about having 31 cakes is no matter what you do, you aren't getting a crazy harvest to begin with




Well that's just plain wrong. 31 cakes ought to give upwards of 10 ounces dry, maybe as much as a pound.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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OfflineTruffle Muscle
Ani veAtah Neshane et HaOlam!


Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 298
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Fruiting woes [Re: Doc_T]
    #14740050 - 07/09/11 08:40 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

31 pint jars. Ace just ordered some verm for me.
I guess I'll just have to dunk and roll after the first flush.


--------------------
Hakol Beseder B'Eli Haseder
:dancingbacon:

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Invisibleloucal
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: Doc_T]
    #14740054 - 07/09/11 08:41 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, even so.  He said that he must have verm it is vital.  I even told him he can most likely find it, but if not to not freak out about it and roll it in perlite.

I am just trying to say if you think outside of the box there are a lot of ways to make sure your uncased cakes end up producing as well as if they were 'dunk and rolled'.  Heck, he could mix up a bulk substrate and spawn them to that if he wanted to, I was merely pointing out his options.  I'm not trying to argue, I'll stay out of the cubie forum for you guys, but for the record are you saying 10oz dry is a 'crazy' harvest? :wink:

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InvisibleHorizonSpawn
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: loucal]
    #14740097 - 07/09/11 09:01 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Even if you don't roll them in verm, you've yet to receive... Please, please, for the sake of your poor dehydrated cakes; soak them. Soak them in room temp water, and soak them well.


--------------------
Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC...

NOTE:  Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone :frown:

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InvisibleM11
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Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 1,840
Re: Fruiting woes [Re: loucal]
    #14740106 - 07/09/11 09:03 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

One could just order some online, but I can't imagine that no nurseries, hardware stores, garden centers, etc. don't have verm.


--------------------
Of course, then there's the problem of eating vermiculite. On the bright side, it makes your poop and teeth glitter.  Just pretend it's christmas.
-RR

Those mushrooms are fine.  Your friend is a pussy.
-RR

Outdoor Patch

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InvisibleHorizonSpawn
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: loucal]
    #14740115 - 07/09/11 09:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

loucal said:
Ok, even so.  He said that he must have verm it is vital.......




No. I said the "dunk & roll" is vital... Then I clarified to explain that it is the hydration of the substrate that is crucial...  As far as perlite goes, I believe is may cause too much evaporation; thus exhausting the substrate of its moisture much too quickly...

BTW; what makes you theorize that perlite is more contaminate prone than verm? My elementary understanding would suggest possibly the opposite.


--------------------
Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC...

NOTE:  Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone :frown:

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Invisibleloucal
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: HorizonSpawn]
    #14740152 - 07/09/11 09:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HorizonSpawn said:
BTW; what makes you theorize that perlite is more contaminate prone than verm? My elementary understanding would suggest possibly the opposite.




Well, anytime I have seen a picture/heard of someone putting their cake directly on wet perlite it has contaminated. I was assuming wet perlite because dry perlite as you said would wick away moisture, but it is a pointless argument anyway, neither would probably stick to the cake very well, but I would be willing to bet the areas it did stick to would be very contaminant prone.

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: loucal]
    #14741177 - 07/09/11 02:08 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

loucal said:
You could do anything you want.  If you want to grow mushrooms and not green mold and bacteria then don't even ever consider letting your substrate directly touch wet perlite.
I dont agree.
Everyone already said it, but verm is available everywhere.  I would be extremely surprised if there is none around.

Forget about the dunk and roll, it is another point for failure, and if your jars have been fully colonized for more than a day then it isn't going to make your pinset more even.  Just birth them.

Ohh and also, pinset is only important if the substrate/conditions are so dialed in that you never get aborts.  I normally don't post in the cubie forum but I would hate for you to roll a cake in perlite, that's just insane :smile:





"If you want to grow mushrooms and not green mold and bacteria then don't even ever consider letting your substrate directly touch wet perlite."

I dont agree.. Wet perlite isnt nuclear waste, its wet perlite. The reason one do not roll cakes in it is because perlite does not hold mositure and is rough and coarse. Its simple logic. Perlite will not contaminate cakes any more than smelling your finger after shoving it up your ass will give you lung cancer.

"Forget about the dunk and roll, it is another point for failure, and if your jars have been fully colonized for more than a day then it isn't going to make your pinset more even.  Just birth them."

I dont agree.; dunking and rolling is to mushroom growing what yeast and fermenting is in baking fresh bread. THe vermiculite will allow the cake to hold moisture and provide a nice coating. Dunking will remoisten the cakes after the consolidation which dries them out. These two things are standard practice in PF TEK and should not be overlooked. You sound like Martha Stewart on crack marketing those magic kitchen gizmos.

Ohh and also, pinset is only important if the substrate/conditions are so dialed in that you never get aborts.  I normally don't post in the cubie forum but I would hate for you to roll a cake in perlite, that's just insane :smile:

I dont agree.; pinset is very important. A good pinset is the foundation of good fruits and is achieved by proper fruiting conditions; good birthing and good conditions inside the FC. Its noticable you normally dont post here. Normally Martha Stewart does not smoke crack; but her sappy bullcrap still encourages millions. Let this be the station director shutting her program down.

Ill just cut and paste from now on in..

"Well, anytime I have seen a picture/heard of someone putting their cake directly on wet perlite it has contaminated. I was assuming wet perlite because dry perlite as you said would wick away moisture, but it is a pointless argument anyway, neither would probably stick to the cake very well, but I would be willing to bet the areas it did stick to would be very contaminant prone. "

Cakes should not be placed directly onto wet perlite; your cakes will continue to stick to the perlite and the mycelium will grow stuck to it(in the same way it grows around the Verm coating). It has little to do with contaminants as a whole, other than the fact that too much water in your FC invites them(among other wrongful condtions). Too wet FC;s, badly cased cakes and so on causes contaminations. Eg. Shitty fruiting conditions. Reasons and sources for contaminations are a whole separate matter and the topics separate as well. Cakes live a slight life of their own and some never fruit altogether. One should never roll in perlite.

"I am just trying to say if you think outside of the box there are a lot of ways to make sure your uncased cakes end up producing as well as if they were 'dunk and rolled'.  Heck, he could mix up a bulk substrate and spawn them to that if he wanted to, I was merely pointing out his options."

Indeed true; altough I am this old school guy, C&C seems to be a viable option, its just that this will cause massive damage to his birthing period and besides he would need Vermiculite or pasteurised/sterilized bulk substrate. The cakes still need to be dunked and properly treated. It makes more sense to go out and buy some Verm.

It is an option though...

Thank you for trying to be positive though, I like that:)
:thumbup:Stay cool, Stay in School!

Edited by kdmmontana (07/10/11 06:09 AM)

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: Fruiting woes [Re: HorizonSpawn]
    #14741191 - 07/09/11 02:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HorizonSpawn said:
Even if you don't roll them in verm, you've yet to receive... Please, please, for the sake of your poor dehydrated cakes; soak them. Soak them in room temp water, and soak them well.




Soak them with a super soaker.

Hi Horizon, whatsup?

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