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 JohnnyRespect
Nomadic Wanderer
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 676
Loc: East Coast
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 Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :)  [Re: JohnnyRespect]
#1473754 - 04/19/03 04:39 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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TheCaptain - Also, I think that the majority of Iraq does, at the very least, want Saddam gone. His Sunni (or shiite, I forget who is who) party that dominated the country only makes up aroudn 28% of the population. the other ones (sunni or shiite, whatever saddam wasn't) despise Saddam. Also, I'm sure that the millions of displaced Kurds that saddam had been gassing like cockroaches are happy too. don't think that just because YOU areon't happy with whats happening, that the IRaqi's aren't happy. I have friends over there now and I hear how they are sustaining on one MRE a day, giving the rest to starving kids. Maybe if saddam's troops spent more time giving food out to the starvign population of Iraq and less time, oh, gassing them, we wouldn't have had to go in ther e:)
Pz
Johnny R
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As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!
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JssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty
Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 446
Loc: Vatican City
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: JohnnyRespect]
#1473770 - 04/19/03 04:43 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
I notice that gas prices have dropped, I'm happy with that War always sparks the economy, my predictions are that with the wet winter the east coast experienced curing last years drought and the influx of oil we'll have from Iraq, the DJIA will be above 9,000 points again by the end of the summer. Then we'll see how much we gained from the war :-)
Small price to pay for increasing the hatred the Arab world feels toward us. What will it cost to clean up the next terrorist attack? And the 20 that follow that. Yeah, maybe there won't be 20 more terrorist attacks on America, it might not last that long...
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JohnnyRespect
Nomadic Wanderer
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 676
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 20 years, 10 months
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If they attack us again, we'll find out who it was and destroy anything (country, nation or institution) that assisted them. Their really isn't much else we can do, unless we surrender and give in to them. Saudi Arabias offical religion dictates hatred towards the USA, and their sheiks preach this. We are the victim here, and all we can wait for is another attack, and deal harshly with those that sponsored it. I think that the US should inform all "terror sponsoring nations" that if a large scale terror attack (nuclear/bio/chem) should happen on American soil, every one of those nations will be vaporized by sundown. A slight modification of the Mutually Assured Distruction knowledge we shared with the former USSR. I think that any nation that is currently sponsoring terrorism will take a long hard look at Afghanistan and think twice about it. And if they don't, we'll vaporize them 
Pz
Johnny R
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As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!
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TheCaptain
addict
Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 426
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: JohnnyRespect]
#1473924 - 04/19/03 06:00 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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Dude are you for real?
Who gives a fuck about people shaving or women learning how to dirve? That sure is hell isnt a good measure of freedom. Tell me about the Afghani government in its current state. Where did the coalition go when it was time to rebuild the country? Better yet tell me, who do they have running the show, and how are they running it?
As for Iraq,
Quote:
don't think that just because YOU areon't happy with whats happening, that the IRaqi's aren't happy.
Theyre happy??? holy dogshit! tell that to the people protesting in Iraq. Do you know what they want? To be able to vote for their own goddamn rulers . I think they call that democracy or something. I could be wrong, look it up...
Read my second post in this thread over again. Tell me why exactly you think that the United States imposing a government composed of war criminals and people no one will recognize is a good thing?
Quote:
You should study history from other places than liberals.net
lol... OK dude. Tell you what, you go to school and get a degree in history and a minor in pol sci. Then come back and tell me where to study.
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"I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. 'Course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are."
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Anonymous
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: TheCaptain]
#1473957 - 04/19/03 06:14 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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Who gives a fuck about people shaving or women learning how to dirve? That sure is hell isnt a good measure of freedom.
people who aren't allowed to shave and people who aren't allowed to drive.
Tell me about the Afghani government in its current state. Where did the coalition go when it was time to rebuild the country? Better yet tell me, who do they have running the show, and how are they running it?
so maybe it's not that great, but at least now women can drive and get an education. men can shave. sports are allowed. so is music. so is television. these are basic liberties which were witheld by the taliban that the people of afghanistan now enjoy.
Theyre happy??? holy dogshit! tell that to the people protesting in Iraq. Do you know what they want? To be able to vote for their own goddamn rulers . I think they call that democracy or something. I could be wrong, look it up...
neither you nor i has a very good idea of the general consensus of the iraqi people. i can tell you that if i lived there, i'd be glad that saddam was gone. the people protesting are not protesting the fall of saddam hussien, but the presence of US occupation. they'll get to vote soon enough.
Edited by mushmaster (04/19/03 06:21 PM)
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amyloid
Stranger
Registered: 03/08/03
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: JohnnyRespect]
#1474050 - 04/19/03 06:50 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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you think the govt is helping the iraqi citizens??? what if the gov't came to your house, and told your mom to leave her house in 48 hrs. , then if she didnt, started to bomb where she was, break into your house with the US marines, run throughout your house trying to find your mom.
and does assumption of innocence not apply to forgeiners? its obvious the US wants to kill sadam, but i havent seen him brought to court, then again i cant stand watching US propagandist bullshit so i barely watch tv.
>>I don't see one reason why us going to war even matters to me, except it's cheaper to fill up my Grand Cherokee now
if the war doesnt even matter to you why do u agree with it?!?!?!!?!!! you think u can just goto war with someone on a whim?? "you threatened my pahs life, i declare war on your regime!" the US admits innocent people are dying in iraq, something that doesnt matter to you, is causing the death of innocent people...you defy all reason
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"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-Al Einstein
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amyloid
Stranger
Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 980
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: JohnnyRespect]
#1474073 - 04/19/03 06:56 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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>>TheCaptain - Also, I think that the majority of Iraq does, at the very least, want Saddam gone. His Sunni (or shiite, I forget who is who) party that dominated the country only makes up aroudn 28% of the population. the other ones (sunni or shiite, whatever saddam wasn't) despise Saddam. Also, I'm sure that the millions of displaced Kurds that saddam had been gassing like cockroaches are happy too. don't think that just because YOU areon't happy with whats happening, that the IRaqi's aren't happy. I have friends over there now and I hear how they are sustaining on one MRE a day, giving the rest to starving kids. Maybe if saddam's troops spent more time giving food out to the starvign population of Iraq and less time, oh, gassing them, we wouldn't have had to go in ther e:)
...welcome everyone to the dirt bag of your proganda vacuum
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"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-Al Einstein
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Anonymous
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: amyloid]
#1474101 - 04/19/03 07:05 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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you think the govt is helping the iraqi citizens??? what if the gov't came to your house, and told your mom to leave her house in 48 hrs. , then if she didnt, started to bomb where she was, break into your house with the US marines, run throughout your house trying to find your mom.
shitty analogy. it would be fitting if instead of my mom, we were talking about my father, who abuses his children and every now and then violently attacks the neighbors. he is also convicted felon and is believed to have illegal firearms.
something that doesnt matter to you, is causing the death of innocent people...you defy all reason
and you defy all reason by ignoring the hundreds of thousands of innocent people systematically murdered by hussien's regime, while deploring the US for accidentally killing a couple thousand while overthrowing him.
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amyloid
Stranger
Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 980
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: ]
#1474316 - 04/19/03 08:53 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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and there was no other way to stop his regieme? come on now, start thinking... war is not the solution! and why is it that the US govt is leading this?
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"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-Al Einstein
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Anonymous
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: amyloid]
#1474334 - 04/19/03 08:56 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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and there was no other way to stop his regieme? come on now, start thinking... war is not the solution!
how do you think hussien should have been removed?
why is it that the US govt is leading this?
do you mean why the US as opposed to any other nation?
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TheCaptain
addict
Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 426
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: ]
#1474369 - 04/19/03 09:05 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
so maybe it's not that great, but at least now women can drive and get an education. men can shave. sports are allowed. so is music. so is television. these are basic liberties which were witheld by the taliban that the people of afghanistan now enjoy
ok, so in other words youre justifying killing innocent people and swaping one gang for another (Taliban for the Northern Alliance) because they let women drive (very few own cars mind you) and men shave? We sent troops around the world (expensive!) to give the poorest people on the planet trivial freedoms? If you ask me (and any other sane person) id be more than happy to give up the right to shave or drive a car for the right to choose my own government- which they are being denied.
Quote:
neither you nor i has a very good idea of the general consensus of the iraqi people. i can tell you that if i lived there, i'd be glad that saddam was gone. the people protesting are not protesting the fall of saddam hussien, but the presence of US occupation. they'll get to vote soon enough.
Sure we do. You can see the angry fuckers and read about them everywhere... Theyre protesting becuase we are IMPOSING a government on them. They dont get to vote.
Sweet jesus, does any one in this forum READ?!
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/5488914.htm
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"I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. 'Course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are."
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Anonymous
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: TheCaptain]
#1474404 - 04/19/03 09:12 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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afghanistan is a fucked up country that i don't think we should be trying to sort out. they've got alot of problems, and they need to solve them for themselves.
the taliban was harboring al qaeda and bin laden. they refused to give up bin laden or his terrorist associates. our nation had just been attacked and roughly 3000 civilians killed by a group they were harboring and refused to compromise.
so they got taken down.
the taliban blew anyway. trivial freedoms? you haven't lived under an oppresive islamist theocracy before have you?
we weren't there to 'liberate' afghanistan from the taliban anyway. we were there to take down a terrorist network and the people harboring them.
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TheCaptain
addict
Registered: 09/04/01
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Loc: Canada
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: ]
#1474805 - 04/19/03 10:46 PM (21 years, 2 days ago) |
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yes yes yes... I know about taliban. Youre missing what im trying to say completely....
They can shave, drive, read, SO WHAT? Did they have the opportunity to elect their leadership? I dont think so.
To me, and most other people for that matter, declaring people free because they have the "freedom" to shave, yet cant elect their leaders is lunacy.
Where on earth did you get the notion that having the power to shave your face is the equivalent of having the power to determine your government?????
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"I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. 'Course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are."
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mycophat
member
Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 133
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: TheCaptain]
#1475522 - 04/20/03 02:12 AM (21 years, 1 day ago) |
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O.K. So now its 3000 civilians killed in 9/11 ( I thought it was less). And how about this do any of you rember when the "news" was posting the death tolls like 30 U.S. soldiers killed in combat 49 killed in "friendly fire" 14 missing and 8 P.O.W.s or something well if you either go back and watch the footage or read the counts (last report that had "friendly fire" numbers included ) looked something like this 49 U.S. soldiers killed in combat 62 killed in "friendly Fire" 12 or 14 missing in action and I think 7 P.O.W.s and why do you think they stopped showing the number of friendly fire kills.......because we bieng the "Most powerfull Nation on the Planet" had killed more of our own men (both U.S. and Brits) than the enemy ( I guess we are just a bunch of badass's with shit poor aim).
I know...I Know our Government and the media would NEVER try to hide something like that....oops I almost forgot ol'GDub's daddy managed to hide the fact that 90% of all the "Patriot"missiles fired in the first gulf war (Desert Storm) missed there intended targets (even though he himself AND the media told us the exact opposit that they were 90% effective) hmmmm.
Now back to my first statment I know that any death involved in 9/11 was a tragedy but if you think about it where is the proof that Bush and Powell said they had that Saddam had links to al qaeda?...hmmm ok how about where are all the chemical weapons that both Bush and Powell said they had proof of also?.....hmmmm now lets step back a little Bush said in the begining roughly that this war was beacuse Iraq refused to disarm (the chemical weapons that bush had NO proof of)...then it was beacuse Bush could provide proof that Saddam had links to al qaeda ...nope that didnt work either...hmmm so then he was left with no choice BUT to "FREE" the Iraqi people (although unless you are working for the Government or say the DEA you would probably agree we here in the good ol U.S.ofA could use a little more "freedom" right here) anyway with his argument settled and justified in his own mind he goes to war O.K. thats cool he's the Prez no big but then you get to the best (and funniest )part "Oil for Food"....LMAO So if you sit by and wait while a country that YOU have put in power tortures, mames,kills,and starves its people then when you finaly decide to go blow the hell out of them all you have to do is rip them off by offering "Oil For Food" as there only means of survival and you can call it a "HUMANATERIAN EFFORT"
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 Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: ]
#1475634 - 04/20/03 03:59 AM (21 years, 1 day ago) |
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we were there to take down a terrorist network and the people harboring them.
Fat lot of use it turned out to be. Bin Laden still free and al-queda still going strong.
No-one seriously thinks bombing Afghanistan made the slightest difference to terrorism. It did open up the country for potential caspian sea oil projects however.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: amyloid]
#1475956 - 04/20/03 08:09 AM (21 years, 1 day ago) |
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amyloid writes:
and there was no other way to stop his regieme?
No, there wasn't. I can't help but notice that you haven't presented us with one one, but don't feel bad -- no one else on this forum, or in the UN, or anywhere else for that matter has ever presented one either.
pinky
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: TheCaptain]
#1475979 - 04/20/03 08:18 AM (21 years, 1 day ago) |
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The Captain writes:
ok, so in other words youre justifying killing innocent people and swaping one gang for another (Taliban for the Northern Alliance) because they let women drive (very few own cars mind you) and men shave?
There's more to it, and you know there is more to it. The Taliban not only prevented women from driving, they prevented them from even leaving the house unaccompanied by a close male relative. They were whipped publicly for wearing makeup. They were not allowed to attend school or to take a job. Male doctors were forbidden from examining naked female patients, yet no females were allowed to become doctors.
Men were not only prevented from shaving, but from even listening to music.
You can't excuse the excesses of theTaliban by saying "who cares if men can't shave and women can't drive cars?"
Besides, the removal of the Taliban was a side-issue. As mushmaster pointed out, the reason for troops to enter Afghanistan was to attempt to capture bin Laden and his Merry Pranksters. The Taliban was offered repeated opportunities to turn bin Laden over to US authorities, or, failing that, to stand aside and not interfere with efforts of coalition troops to capture OBL and Co.
They chose instead to attack coalition forces searching for OBL. So be it.
pinky
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amyloid
Stranger
Registered: 03/08/03
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: Phred]
#1476121 - 04/20/03 09:50 AM (21 years, 1 day ago) |
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i cant think of another means to solve the problem the US has created, that doesnt make war acceptable.
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"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-Al Einstein
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amyloid
Stranger
Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 980
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: Phred]
#1476123 - 04/20/03 09:53 AM (21 years, 1 day ago) |
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>>They chose instead to attack coalition forces searching for OBL. So be it.
your saying that the US wouldnt have taken the taliban out of power if they hadn't attack coalition forces?
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"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-Al Einstein
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: Another thing for the anti-warrers :) [Re: amyloid]
#1476307 - 04/20/03 11:06 AM (21 years, 1 day ago) |
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amyloid asks:
your saying that the US wouldnt have taken the taliban out of power if they hadn't attack coalition forces?
How closely were you following events in Afghanistan when all this was going on? It was less than two years ago, for pete's sake.
The coalition warned repeatedly that if the Taliban impeded its efforts to track down and capture Al-Qaeda members, it would suffer the consequences. The coalition's primary mission was always to capture Al-Qaeda members, not to remove the Taliban. Do you not remember the weeks of protests from the Northern Alliance leaders pissing and moaning that the coalition was offering them no support; that they were attacking the wrong places and going about it all wrong? This is because the two groups had two different goals -- the Northern Alliance wanted primarily to oust the Taliban, and cared little about chasing Al-Qaeda groups. The coalition wanted the reverse.
If the Taliban forces had stood aside (as they were requested) and allowed the coalition forces to go where they wished unimpeded, it would have been almost impossible for Bush to have justified any attack on them. At this point what does it matter? The Taliban chose a different course of action, and got spanked for it.
pinky
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