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disco-biscuit
Domo


Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 37
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC
#14716732 - 07/04/11 05:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have tried making 15+ qt jars with WBS, used 3 different teks, followed them all to the T and even tried slight variations. Every single time the jars come out of the PC with lots of moisture in them. All the seeds stick to the sides of the jar and have little moisture ringlets around them.
I've tried: with/without 24hr soak, (and tried different soaking times) with/without simmer (also different methods of simmering) drying for 30 minutes, 1hr, and even 4 hrs.
I've been using doc's wbs tek, foo man's tek, and agar's reccomendations.
I don't understand how people let their wbs sit for 30-60mins and it's completely dry. Every time I do that the seed is still sopping wet. Even if I let it sit all spread out on a newspaper for that time frame it's still very wet. The last couple jars I did I let it sit for 3 hours, transferred it from towel to towel and even left a fan on it for ~30 mins, FINALLY it was dry and none would stick to my hand or a spoon, and that jar came out with the most moisture of all! This is really confusing to me because I live in a VERY arid desert climate.
What is going on here?! I've gone through like 20 pounds or more of wbs with no success. Really starting to frustrate me. I've resorted to just crumbling brf cakes and making trays which actually works.
-------------------- The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him no good.
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conformist


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 210
Loc: SE
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: disco-biscuit]
#14716752 - 07/04/11 05:08 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just brainstorming...
What sort of gas exchange filter are you using for your lid? Are you covering the lid with foil? Are you allowing the PC to cool naturally? What model PC do you have?
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disco-biscuit
Domo


Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 37
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: conformist]
#14716777 - 07/04/11 05:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
conformist said: Just brainstorming...
What sort of gas exchange filter are you using for your lid? Are you covering the lid with foil? Are you allowing the PC to cool naturally? What model PC do you have?
I've used all kinds. Mostly tyvek, or tyvek & polyfill. I've tried with just coffee filters, just foil, and both. Yes I let it cool 1hr, shake the jar, replace pc lid, let cool over night. Presto 16qt i believe. It holds 7 1qt jars.
-------------------- The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him no good.
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Slayer1024
Stranger Shroomer



Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 397
Loc: At his place ^^
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: conformist]
#14716786 - 07/04/11 05:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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you could try 6T's WBS tek ...I use it I soak for 12 hours, rinse, strain, and toss in the PC and it works perfect for me every time though i live in a very humid climate so you may have a different result living in the desert
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conformist


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 210
Loc: SE
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: disco-biscuit]
#14716805 - 07/04/11 05:18 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Once the PC time is up, allow it to cool overnight before opening. Maybe the sudden change in temperature is causing something. You can distribute the grains the next day. May help...Good Luck.
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disco-biscuit
Domo


Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 37
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: conformist]
#14718914 - 07/05/11 05:22 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Alright I started another 3 jars using 6T's tek. They're soaking now. When I wake up I'll rinse, dry, then PC and just leave them in the PC until I get back from work. Will proceed to knock up / shake when I get back. Sound like it should work?
-------------------- The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him no good.
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wygram
Myconaut

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 573
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: disco-biscuit]
#14719074 - 07/05/11 06:36 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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There will usually be some moisture visible on the glass or in a bag after PCing, also the grains at the bottom might be more wet. Shake after taking the grain out of the PC and after a day or less the moisture should re-absorb and even out.
That is, if you are correctly preparing the grain. Letting it dry before loading into jars and allowing the PC to depressurize naturally until the metal is just warm to the touch.
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Grain-Preparation
-------------------- Changing your mind is one of the best ways of finding out whether or not you still have one.
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Carl Sagan
Time Dilation Analyst


Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 922
Loc: Myco-tek.org
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: wygram]
#14719191 - 07/05/11 07:11 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Moisture in your jar/bag after PCing is normal.
-------------------- “Sacred cows make the best hamburger”
Mark Twain
Independant Research Foundation
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gagaganja
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/11
Posts: 58
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC *DELETED* [Re: Carl Sagan]
#14719641 - 07/05/11 09:29 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by gagaganjaReason for deletion: n
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orange771

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 288
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: gagaganja]
#14719710 - 07/05/11 09:58 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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What I do is I load a quart jar worth of wbs in the strainer after 24 hour soak, rinse like hell, then let it strain til water stops running out, and run a few paper towels through it with my fingers until they come out fairly dry, load the jars and pc. No need to wait for drying, though I will admit that making 20+ jars will make a dent in your paper towel roll and your garbage can
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: orange771]
#14720019 - 07/05/11 11:17 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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soak simmer and strain.
no rinsing.
add verm if its too wet.
verm is good for stuff
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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disco-biscuit
Domo


Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 37
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: k00laid]
#14720778 - 07/05/11 02:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I remember reading from agar that verm is pointless to have in the jar, because the moisture is still in the jar - which is causing the problem in the first place. Makes sense.
WBS drying now, wish me luck!
-------------------- The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him no good.
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Sea_Goat
Strangest

Registered: 06/25/11
Posts: 143
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: disco-biscuit]
#14720816 - 07/05/11 02:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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It makes perfect sense that a jar removed from the PC after just one hour will create condensation on the inside of the jar. That is because of the relative temperature of the glass, which cools pretty quickly when removed from the PC, and the still hot grains inside the jar. You will always have a little visible moisture inside a properly prepared jar, but I bet your main culprit is not letting the PC cool before opening it.
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ozzysmygod
Late Night PC'ing Enthusiast



Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 835
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: disco-biscuit]
#14720829 - 07/05/11 02:26 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I boil mine like in RR's videos at Mushroom Videos
Organice Rye, 12 hour soak, bring to the boil, boil for 5 minutes (RR's video says 10 but I get burst kernals if I boil over 5mins)
Dump into strainers in the bathroom come back a few hours later and its dry.
Do you let your grains cool to room temp before adding to the jars?
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: disco-biscuit]
#14720847 - 07/05/11 02:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
disco-biscuit said: I remember reading from agar that verm is pointless to have in the jar, because the moisture is still in the jar - which is causing the problem in the first place. Makes sense.
WBS drying now, wish me luck!
lol thats like saying.
i had too much rye in my jar, therefor too much moisture.
there isn't enough substrate to support the moisture thats there, therefore it pools at the bottom.
how to balance water substrate? add moar substrate. verms
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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disco-biscuit
Domo


Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 37
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: ozzysmygod]
#14721087 - 07/05/11 03:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sea_Goat said: It makes perfect sense that a jar removed from the PC after just one hour will create condensation on the inside of the jar. That is because of the relative temperature of the glass, which cools pretty quickly when removed from the PC, and the still hot grains inside the jar. You will always have a little visible moisture inside a properly prepared jar, but I bet your main culprit is not letting the PC cool before opening it.
Since I've heard the cooling thing a couple times now I think I'm gonna try that this time. Hopefully that's the problem. Thank you.
Quote:
ozzysmygod said: I boil mine like in RR's videos at Mushroom Videos
Organice Rye, 12 hour soak, bring to the boil, boil for 5 minutes (RR's video says 10 but I get burst kernals if I boil over 5mins)
Dump into strainers in the bathroom come back a few hours later and its dry.
Do you let your grains cool to room temp before adding to the jars?
Yep they are always cool before I add them to the jars.
-------------------- The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him no good.
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cappsnstems
pooface



Registered: 12/14/04
Posts: 243
Loc: UpNorthDownSouthBackEast&...
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: disco-biscuit]
#14725330 - 07/06/11 11:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have the same problem...not as much with wetness, but with the grains sticking together in a big ol' clump.
when I do have too much moisture, i can attribute it to placement of foil. sometimes the water gets up in there if it's not covering the lid securely.
I have been keeping a constant cycle of G2G transfers, and when I do it, I have to take a big long sundae spoon and break up the grain in the jar. Major risk of contams, but I've done it to like 40-50 jars with only about 3 of them getting the green monster. it seems to spread out the moisture content, as well as not adding to it with liquid inoculation. maybe try to do your BRF (if you have better luck with that method) and use the colonized BRF to transfer to your grain jars. Then, you're not adding more moisture to your WBS jars. just a thought.
Hopefully, this is just a cooling problem for you. I also let my jars sit in the PC for 12-24 hours before opening.
Hope you have some better luck buddy!!
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i support headypoo!
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wally_world
Mr. Cook

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 171
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: cappsnstems]
#14725385 - 07/06/11 11:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Verm is not needed if the grain prepped correctly.
Simmer/boiling the grains before dumping into the colander allows water to evaporate off of the grain easier.
I noticed you mentioned the grain sitting on newspaper to dry. You should have the grain drying in a colander.
Watch the Grain Prep link that wygram posted. That's the best tek going at this point in time. The gypsum prevents the grains from sticking. Also, like the others said, some moisture is normal and will redistribute after shaking and will further re-absorb after sitting a day or two.
-------------------- ^False and fictitious.
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disco-biscuit
Domo


Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 37
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: wally_world]
#14726324 - 07/06/11 02:27 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
wally_world said: Verm is not needed if the grain prepped correctly.
Simmer/boiling the grains before dumping into the colander allows water to evaporate off of the grain easier.
I noticed you mentioned the grain sitting on newspaper to dry. You should have the grain drying in a colander.
Watch the Grain Prep link that wygram posted. That's the best tek going at this point in time. The gypsum prevents the grains from sticking. Also, like the others said, some moisture is normal and will redistribute after shaking and will further re-absorb after sitting a day or two.
Yeah I usually leave it in a collander for a while before i set it on the newspaper, otherwise the newspaper would get way too wet. These jars are looking good so far. Hope it was a cooling problem. I'll let you guys know how it works!
-------------------- The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him no good.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: So aggrivating! Moisture in WBS jars after PC [Re: disco-biscuit]
#14726401 - 07/06/11 02:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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My WBS is always a little wet after PC'ing, but any excess moisture is always gone within a day or two and it never causes any problems for me. Don't get me wrong, you shouldn't have a pool of water at the bottom of the jar/bag but if the grains just look a little wet against the glass there is no need to worry. I still use the same method to this day and still get the same great results every time.
If you're having contamination issues and are using good filters you should increase the cooking time in your PC. Some batches of WBS have higher amounts of mold spores than others.
--------------------
Quick WBS Prep
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