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Offlinekingsley_zissou
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Registered: 05/12/11
Posts: 3
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
My mistakes lost me potency
    #14715711 - 07/04/11 01:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

This spring, I grew my first few crops, much to my delight. I heard about preserving in honey, so as the crop blossomed, I put them fresh in jars of honey. Then I realized I had way too many to preserve them that way, so I drained the watery honey and dried them at 150.

Now, I've tried them a few times, and I realized, while fun, they're probably low potency. I need the board's expertise to show me where I went wrong. I realize my methodology was scattershot and combination of several approaches, so I accept that I screwed up, but I want to know the specifics. As always, I really appreciate your help and knowledge.

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Invisiblearp180
student of life
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Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 1,449
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: kingsley_zissou]
    #14715786 - 07/04/11 01:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Best preservation method is to dehydrate until cracker dry and store in vacuum sealed bag. There are many posts on the issue involving dehydrators, fans, damp-rid and such. Hope that helps, do a quick search for proper drying technique and I think you will find an abundance of answers to your question.

-ARP


--------------------
"Given the choice between the experience of pain and nothing, I would choose pain."  William Faulkner

"That which exists without my knowledge exists without my consent."
-A quote from the Judge in the novel Blood Meridian; or the Evening Redness in the West by Cormac McCarthy

"Let there be light" My Quick Reference Guide to Lighting
My AutoMono (11oz First Flush)
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OfflineSmirnoff
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Registered: 01/10/11
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Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: arp180]
    #14717025 - 07/04/11 06:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Heat breaks down the psylocibin molecule... 150 might have been too much.

Also, the psylocibin MAY (I'm not 100% sure bout that) have disolve into the honey. I hope you saved it because I would love to put it on my toasts in the morning!


--------------------
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Ethnobotany + Mycology = Ethnomycology

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 384
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: Smirnoff]
    #14717184 - 07/04/11 06:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Everyone here is wrong.
Mushroom tea is heated to boiling, potency retained.
You can dehydrate with all the heat you want.
Your shrooms were low potency because they are cubes.
You need to grow a penis envy monotub for potency.
Or panaleous species.
Take a few mushrooms from one cake family, split them into two parts.  Make sure they weigh about the same.  Dehydrate one with no heat, then eat it.  Dehydrate the others at 165, wait a week or two to lose your tolerance, and eat those.
There will be little difference.
I know people say they degrade with heat, but its a myth.  Old outdated info. 
I would think they would naturally decay and break down faster the longer it takes to dry them :shrug:

Edited by ISOfantastic (07/04/11 07:01 PM)

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14717299 - 07/04/11 07:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

150 is not hot enough to degrade the actives. Infact alot of people will dry there mushrooms in dehydrators set at 150-155.

And as said previously, people make tea. Which i used to do alot when i was growing and i got some really potent tea.

Personally i think cubes are potent enough. What could have happened is yuou just got unlucky and your ginetics wernt that great. sometimes you just get weak mushrooms.

I remember getting a monstor fruit which was 30 grams fresh, had the whole fruit and hardly tripped.


--------------------

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Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: veda_sticks]
    #14717376 - 07/04/11 07:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Err...you put them in honey...then changed your mind and dried them out? Well...soaking them in any liquid and drying them out is going to lose you potency, psilocybin is a water soluble molecule.

Perhaps I am not understanding. Please elaborate?


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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InvisibleVaeVictum
Sativa Cyborg


Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 4,397
Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: anonjon]
    #14717486 - 07/04/11 08:30 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

From all the abuse I put the search engine through it really does seam like oxidizing is a far bigger issue to be concerned about in comparison to heat.

I have an old dehydrator I've been debating using until this very moment. It has a heating element at the bottom and no fan. Aside from the warm air pressure there wont be any airflow on it. It's really taking a massive amount less air flow than blowing a fan on some metal racks and probably will dry it faster.

This has always seemed to be one of those great debates that's destined to never go away until someone shows lab testings.

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InvisibleCarl Sagan
Time Dilation Analyst


Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 922
Loc: Myco-tek.org
Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14717818 - 07/04/11 09:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ISOfantastic said:
Everyone here is wrong.
Mushroom tea is heated to boiling, potency retained.
You can dehydrate with all the heat you want.
Your shrooms were low potency because they are cubes.
You need to grow a penis envy
monotub for potency.
Or panaleous species.
Take a few mushrooms from one cake family, split them into two parts.  Make sure they weigh about the same.  Dehydrate one with no heat, then eat it.  Dehydrate the others at 165, wait a week or two to lose your tolerance, and eat those.
There will be little difference.
I know people say they degrade with heat, but its a myth.  Old outdated info. 
I would think they would naturally decay and break down faster the longer it takes to dry them :shrug:




Penis Envy is just another sub-species of Cubensis.

Way to go considering you started out your post saying everyone here is wrong. :wow:


--------------------
“Sacred cows make the best hamburger”

Mark Twain



Independant Research Foundation

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Offlinesage1o1
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: Carl Sagan]
    #14717874 - 07/04/11 10:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think we're all a little wrong and a little right here...

PE is a cube but it is known to be more potent, especially isolated.

Psilocybin does break down given prolonged temperatures exceeding...umm i forget (check RR's posts if you're curious)... just don't use an oven to dry 'em is my rule of thumb.  But mainly I never worry about heat.

Speaking of which, VaeVictum, i use a very similar dehydrator as the one you described and not only is there no noticeable loss of potency, but they dry in a matter of hours.


--------------------
An optimally setup greenhouse: (it's my GH :heart:)

Check it out if you have GH questions!

 

"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length--and there I travel looking, looking breathlessly." -Carlos Castenda  (Don Juan: the Sorcerer)

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OfflineISOfantastic
Mad Scientist Wannabe
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Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 384
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: Carl Sagan]
    #14717883 - 07/04/11 10:05 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Oh jeez.
Pe is a mutant sub strain considered unique amongst cubes.
I know its a cube.
But its universally loved in my circles and is a much stronger buzz by weight.

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Offlinedrwatson
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: Carl Sagan]
    #14717887 - 07/04/11 10:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I still dry in newspaper.  Flip the shrooms and change the paper every other day.  After a week or so they're cracker dry and can be stored in zip-lock bags and left in a cool dark place for a very long time. 

Works just fine for me.  (Of course I'm not drying out a shit ton of cubes)

edit: I really shouldn't get into strain discussions but I've had consistently potent R44 MS

Edited by drwatson (07/04/11 10:07 PM)

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Offlineafrosheen
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Registered: 03/06/10
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: sage1o1]
    #14717898 - 07/04/11 10:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

My Excalibur dehydrator gets an entire monotub dry in 8-10 hours. No potency loss that I can see.

The active molecule is very stable and can handle 220F and up without breaking down. It's oxidation that you have to worry about. Get a fruit cracker dry, powder it, then leave it sitting on a countertop for a week and you may not feel a thing. Start over and put that powder in your coffee maker filter, run a few cups of water through it, and it packs a punch.

Also making blue honey is fine, but the key is to start with cracker dry fruits, not soggy ones that will dilute the honey and cause a mess.


--------------------

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Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: afrosheen]
    #14717929 - 07/04/11 10:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:
Also making blue honey is fine, but the key is to start with cracker dry fruits, not soggy ones that will dilute the honey and cause a mess.




Ah...that's what he did. I wasn't getting it.

Can't believe the nubs still running around saying not to dehydrate with heat. So ignorant.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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Offlinecenturz


Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 85
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: afrosheen]
    #14718078 - 07/04/11 10:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:
My Excalibur dehydrator gets an entire monotub dry in 8-10 hours. No potency loss that I can see.

The active molecule is very stable and can handle 220F and up without breaking down. It's oxidation that you have to worry about. Get a fruit cracker dry, powder it, then leave it sitting on a countertop for a week and you may not feel a thing. Start over and put that powder in your coffee maker filter, run a few cups of water through it, and it packs a punch.

Also making blue honey is fine, but the key is to start with cracker dry fruits, not soggy ones that will dilute the honey and cause a mess.




oxidation as in not keeping it in a sealed bag/jar? I looked it up and got all this chemistry about adding an oxygen molecule to form an oxide. But if this is so then it seems to me that fanning would be the worst since your essentially blowing oxygen all around it, but i assume that since it gets the moisture out as well its okay to do this for a couple days? still seems like there would be a loss of potency but then again idk if oxidation works by fanning them

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Posts: 42,395
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: anonjon]
    #14718247 - 07/04/11 11:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
Can't believe the nubs still running around saying not to dehydrate with heat.




Old info is hard to eradicate.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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InvisibleVaeVictum
Sativa Cyborg


Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 4,397
Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: sage1o1]
    #14718305 - 07/04/11 11:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sage1o1 said:
Speaking of which, VaeVictum, i use a very similar dehydrator as the one you described and not only is there no noticeable loss of potency, but they dry in a matter of hours.




:dancer:

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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: centurz]
    #14718459 - 07/05/11 12:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

centurz said:
Quote:

afrosheen said:
My Excalibur dehydrator gets an entire monotub dry in 8-10 hours. No potency loss that I can see.

The active molecule is very stable and can handle 220F and up without breaking down. It's oxidation that you have to worry about. Get a fruit cracker dry, powder it, then leave it sitting on a countertop for a week and you may not feel a thing. Start over and put that powder in your coffee maker filter, run a few cups of water through it, and it packs a punch.

Also making blue honey is fine, but the key is to start with cracker dry fruits, not soggy ones that will dilute the honey and cause a mess.




oxidation as in not keeping it in a sealed bag/jar? I looked it up and got all this chemistry about adding an oxygen molecule to form an oxide. But if this is so then it seems to me that fanning would be the worst since your essentially blowing oxygen all around it, but i assume that since it gets the moisture out as well its okay to do this for a couple days? still seems like there would be a loss of potency but then again idk if oxidation works by fanning them




Oxidation takes time, months into years. If by fanning you mean while they're growing, then no. If by fanning you mean drying them in a fan, then yeah any drying, fan or heat will cause oxidization. Thats why fresh fruits are more potent. I'ts hardly a noticable amount and it happens whether you dry with heat or without.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
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Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Invisiblearp180
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14719256 - 07/05/11 07:31 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ISOfantastic said:
Everyone here is wrong.






Isofantastic, please enlighten me on what is so wrong with my reply to to the original poster?


--------------------
"Given the choice between the experience of pain and nothing, I would choose pain."  William Faulkner

"That which exists without my knowledge exists without my consent."
-A quote from the Judge in the novel Blood Meridian; or the Evening Redness in the West by Cormac McCarthy

"Let there be light" My Quick Reference Guide to Lighting
My AutoMono (11oz First Flush)
My Monster Mushroom Mono (9.3oz First Flush)


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Offlinekdmmontana
Male

Registered: 11/09/10
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: sage1o1]
    #14719280 - 07/05/11 07:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I agree fully. I am growing some form of cube, which is called star gazer and is more than potent fresh from the cake. I think these cool names do not tell anything about what kind of mushroom variety one grows and as far as I am concerned, I have no idea, only that they look good and send me off into cyberspace.

I hear people mentioning "potency" a lot and I still find it a bit ludicrous to say "ohhh this shit is potent" when all one needs to make up for it is one or two more shrooms. Personally, I would never grow mushrooms that look like a penis:P But I find a lot of people seem to enjoy them...hhmm:)

Whatever potency is lost due to drying or whatever is a non issue as dosing these mushrooms is fairly easy, have something weaker? Eat more. Have something stronger? Eat less.

Potency is irrelevant in a substance not prone to re-dosing, such as psilocybin due to the simple fact that one trip is one trip.

That is at least my opinion. As long as the mushrooms are viable, then fine:)

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: My mistakes lost me potency [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14719347 - 07/05/11 08:00 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ISOfantastic said:
Everyone here is wrong.
Mushroom tea is heated to boiling, potency retained.
You can dehydrate with all the heat you want.
Your shrooms were low potency because they are cubes.
You need to grow a penis envy monotub for potency.
Or panaleous species.
Take a few mushrooms from one cake family, split them into two parts.  Make sure they weigh about the same.  Dehydrate one with no heat, then eat it.  Dehydrate the others at 165, wait a week or two to lose your tolerance, and eat those.
There will be little difference.
I know people say they degrade with heat, but its a myth.  Old outdated info. 
I would think they would naturally decay and break down faster the longer it takes to dry them :shrug:




Everyone here is wrong. - that includes yourself :cookiemonster:

Mushroom tea is heated to boiling, potency retained- Your obviously mistaking the rotting process taking place in fresh undried mushrooms for the psilocybin release from dried mushrooms in tea. Thats not the topic. Your mushrooms will lose potency as soon as the rotting process starts and that process begins within 24 hours and goes pretty fast.:smirk:

You can dehydrate with all the heat you want. -  you mean I can put my mushrooms in an oven in 300 degrees! Wow, theyll dry in minutes, and I can make a pizza at the same time! Woooow. :tongue:

Your shrooms were low potency because they are cubes.- Bullcrap so big it fills a field. I grow a variety of cubes and they are more than potent. Where do you get this bullshit from?:tongue:

You need to grow a penis envy monotub for potency. - No shit man! Ohh Im just gonna throw out my worthless setup, I wont be getting any potency at all. Aww shiit! :stoned:

Take a few mushrooms from one cake family, split them into two parts.  Make sure they weigh about the same.  Dehydrate one with no heat, then eat it.  Dehydrate the others at 165, wait a week or two to lose your tolerance, and eat those. - Or you can simply just eat your mushrooms like a normal person, instead of waiting for a week because of pooteeency..duuuhh!. Senseless. :laugh:

There will be little difference. - You really mean that, I would have expected heated mushrooms to cure cancer by now, I mean there is no other reason to acutally find out. I mean, why do that in the first place? For fun?:grin:

I know people say they degrade with heat, but its a myth.  Old outdated info. -  And whatever minute loss they would have incurred, doesnt matter at all and has never mattered. If one gets such shit yields or sits on so little, then there is no reason to bother anyway. If one is displeased, eat more. Thats all. :cool:

I would think they would naturally decay and break down faster the longer it takes to dry them -  Its called rotting and yes this is true to the letter, just about all that was. :thumbup:

I will keep posting these arrogant messages until you stop demeaning people in threads and calling the rest of us "stupid" "wrong" or the famous "retarded". Its not nice to call people those things. So stop do that, would you fucking please sir?

Say hello to Anonjon from me, would ya!

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