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Steve
Stranger

Registered: 09/22/07
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: Dosile Kouki]
#14728362 - 07/06/11 09:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DosileFlynn said: but what the hell was he doing with a POUND of ketamine, ~450 grams. i mean c'mon thats just ridiculous. and driving around with it?? in the vacinity of a big festival?!?!? it seems like it's his fault for being careless and stupid. .
Exactly what I was going to say!!!
This guy fails basic drug common sense.
Edited by Steve (07/06/11 09:17 PM)
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2859558484
Growery is Better



Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#14728562 - 07/06/11 09:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Kid_Orgo said:
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vandago said: Stay the hell out of illinois with drugs.
Also: don't show up at a festival with a felony amount of drugs unless you're shopping for a size 10 asshole.
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Kid_Orgo said:
 this is more than felony amount. This is more like I want to wear a diaper for the rest of my life because my rim now resembles a rubber band amount.
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vandago



Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 20,942
Loc: .
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: 2859558484]
#14728644 - 07/06/11 09:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Class X just blows my effin mind. This system is fucked.
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Kid_Orgo


Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: vandago] 1
#14728664 - 07/06/11 09:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I hope it's the final flailings of the advocates of an obviously failing policy.
"Apparently putting non-violent offenders away for a long time doesn't work!" *SLAP* "Quiet, you fool! We just need to put them away for longer!"
The rational world will win this one eventually, we just need to remain free long enough to see the day.
Edit:
And while the drug war is wrong, pretending it doesn't exist is a grave mistake. Living in a world where you never get caught and things are how you think they should be could cost you the rest of your life.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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Dosile Kouki
derp


Registered: 03/08/10
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#14728877 - 07/06/11 10:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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yep, i agree.
but at the same time, high level drug traffickers need to face heavy penalties. personal users, sure they should have their sentences decriminalized, but i mean, you can't let someone with 450 grams walk away with just a slap on the wrist. as much as i hate to say it, people who are dealing in large ammounts of drugs need to have prohibitive jail sentences looming over their head to steer the general population out of selling drugs in the first place.
it's not secret that drugs can be lucrative, if the penalties are dropped for high level trafficking, think of how much more drug/gang/mafia/murder/robbing/stealing issues there would be. it would actually make the problem worse in my opinion.
but something definately needs to be done and fast. this madness needs to end. legalize all or most drugs, remove the criminal elements from society. tax and licence the production and supply of these drugs. keep them as legal only to possess in ones home, and only to a certain point. keep prices very low to prevent any black market competition.
/end rant.
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2859558484
Growery is Better



Registered: 01/10/06
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: Dosile Kouki] 1
#14729379 - 07/07/11 12:26 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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do you grow all your drugs?
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Dosile Kouki
derp


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 14,963
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: 2859558484]
#14729393 - 07/07/11 12:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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no, and i can see what your getting at. i understand that the drugs that one uses comes from someone who is taking the risk to provide that service. that is all well and good.
i'm just saying from a law enforcement/legal point of view, they can't just let people involved in high level narcotics offences walk away with light sentences. it is illegal to deter people from engaging in this activity, whether or not one sees it as right or wrong, it is illegal at the end of the day.
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2859558484
Growery is Better



Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: Dosile Kouki] 2
#14729402 - 07/07/11 12:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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used to be illegal for black people to sit at the front of the bus.... the good ole days
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Dosile Kouki
derp


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 14,963
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: 2859558484]
#14729407 - 07/07/11 12:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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used to be legal for people to take drugs also
and commit genocide
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vandago



Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 20,942
Loc: .
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: Dosile Kouki]
#14729725 - 07/07/11 03:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ya I don't see how you can not be pro drug war, if you are pro locking dealers up because they are making money. Thats why people flocked over to America in the first place.......to make money and for the government to keep their greedy fucking hands out of it. So you agree that some peoples jobs are ok, but if you are busting your ass giving people drugs you should be locked up because an out dated consensus thinks it's wrong? All drugs should be made legal. Then there wouldn't be a market for high end dealers, no need to murder to get drugs, and organized crime........IT WOULDNT BE ILLEGAL......they have organized crime units now that arent illegal that run around with large amounts of drugs, weapons, and a HUGE lack of information.......police.
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Dosile Kouki
derp


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 14,963
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: vandago]
#14729828 - 07/07/11 04:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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i'm pro freedom, but i'm also a realist.
I think you may just be a little bit naive in invisioning us just all of a sudden appearing in this fantasy land of 100% legal drugs. that is not going to happen for a long time, if it ever happens, sadly.
the first step on the road the Legalization is Decriminailization. I'm not sure if you know the difference between the two, legalization means free reign and its completely free for one to use/sell/make/anything with that substance. Decriminilization means the activity is still illegal and policed, however when one is caught for doing this, they are not charged or put in court, but simply just made to pay fines. just like speeding and parking offences. it's still illegal and against the law, but it is tolerated and taxed.
it's no secret the drug USE is not the problem, but drug CRIME. take the drugs out of the situation for a moment to understand where i'm coming from. i'm not talking about people with jobs, i'm talking about people who devote their lives to crime. high level drug dealers are career criminals, regardless of drugs. career criminals regardless of their chosen field of crime, cannot be given free reign or light sentences, because that just encourages more crime to take place in the first place. i'm not talking about the 'yo werd up i sell quarters on da block yo' type of person, i'm talking about people like the guy in this thread, who get caught with pounds, kilos, who knows what. but big ammounst and big money. that will never be allowed to happen freely and will never be endorsed by the legal fraternity. Thats Reality, Vandago.
but i agree they need to remove the criminal element from the drug world, as i said before by decriminalizing and industrialising drugs. let the government control it and license it and run the black market out of business. although some people have said this might have worse effects on society , because organised crime wont just shut up shop and become security guards, they will look to other raquets to start making money, which could be even worse off. but thats another can of worms.
and in relation to your last point, the key distinction is that the police/raquet/gang/derogatory term etc are on the right side of the law and generally dont break the law. criminals and syndicates on the other hand, regardless of how righteous their work is and how little people they harm, are on the wrongside of the law.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: Dosile Kouki] 1
#14729836 - 07/07/11 04:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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DosileFlynn said: but at the same time, high level drug traffickers need to face heavy penalties.
No! These are my friends! They do not need heavy penalties.
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but i mean, you can't let someone with 450 grams walk away with just a slap on the wrist.
Why not?
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as much as i hate to say it, people who are dealing in large ammounts of drugs need to have prohibitive jail sentences looming over their head to steer the general population out of selling drugs in the first place.
Why would you want to do that?
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it's not secret that drugs can be lucrative, if the penalties are dropped for high level trafficking, think of how much more drug/gang/mafia/murder/robbing/stealing issues there would be. it would actually make the problem worse in my opinion.
They should put people in jail for murder, not for selling chemicals that some conservative people don't like.
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Dosile Kouki
derp


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 14,963
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No! These are my friends! They do not need heavy penalties.
i'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not there, but look, i'm not trying to sound heartless and de-humanize these people. i'm sure there are some great people who get caught up in the wrong things. but as i said before, remove the drug part from the equation, and view it as high level criminals. this is behaviour that the law has to discourage. thats the laws purpose, to encourage people to conform within the accepted boundaries put forward by the law (leaving aside the issue of whether the law acurately represents what is 'right' and 'wrong' for individuals).
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Why not?
same reason as above. it's high level criminal activity.
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Why would you want to do that?
personally i want drugs to be free just as much as the next person, but i also realise the prevailing mentality of the system. The system can't be seem to endorse criminality, or turn a blind eye to it, because that underpins everything the system stands for. its just flat out un-realistic to assume that high level criminality will ever be allowed to be freely engaged in, regardless of what type of crime. the law works to prevent crime, and does so by trying to scare people out of crimes with high sentences.
Maybe this is an all together fallible approach on a philosophical basis. and maybe the drug war has failed (which i think it has quite clearly). but regardless of these issues, this is the situation we are in now, and this is the establishments method of dealing with these sorts of activities. right or wrong, i understand why these measures are in place and why it is necessary. and to be blatantly honest it appears to be just about the only way they have to deal with these situations at current. something needs to change for sure.
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They should put people in jail for murder, not for selling chemicals that some conservative people don't like.
i agree also, and i think it is rather shocking if not depressing for one to do a bit of research and see just what crimes are on par with certain drug crimes. i.e. i think someone deduced that the OP's friend may be facing like 9-15 years or something. If you went through the criminal codes for the state of illinois and found some crimes that were on par with a 9-15 year sentence, you would be amazed if not extremely disapointed to see that a class x felony is on par with rape...agravated assault, manslaughter, multiple armed robberies (just guessing), etc etc.
i mean it's pretty clear that selling narcotics has no where near as much of a negative impact or is even anywhere near as criminal/dangerous/undesireable as some of the other mentioned categories. yet it is put on the same pedastal as these crimes.
And for what reason? because of an archaic system that hasn't learned to adapt and evolve in it's philosophies and methodologies? the establishment is falling far behind reality at this point in time, and something has to be done to make a change. whether that is re-thinking the way they sentence offenders for these crimes, legalization, decriminilzation, or who knows what. but something needs to be done, in my opinion.
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Edited by DosileFlynn (07/07/11 05:11 AM)
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InvisibleHunter
Stranger

Registered: 04/18/11
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: Dosile Kouki]
#14729885 - 07/07/11 05:17 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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He should have dealt acid instead. According to that link, you can have up to 15 grams of LSD before it becomes a Class X Felony.
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the human abstract
malaka the werewolf



Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 8,817
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OP did your friend snitch on himself
I think it's kind of funny when you thought they could split the sentence. I cringed as soon as you said there were two people in the car.
They'll get the story they need after hours of interviewing or nazi style interrogation them individually.
His best thing would have been saying he didn't know what it was and was given to him. Knowing how these cops work he probably already snitched himself out though.
THESE DRUG LAWS HAVE TO GO.
MY LIFE WILL COMPLETE WHEN I CAN LAUGH IN THE FACES OF DRUG WAR SUPPORTERS
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Dosile Kouki
derp


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 14,963
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there is a possible out, although ridiculously remote in its probability of success. crimes have two elements, 'mens rae' - mental elements, and 'actus reus' - physical elements. both need to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt for a charge to be proven. so its possible he could argue that he was not aware of the drugs being there, they weren't his, etc... (but everyone says that). and sometimes this is overcome by the statutes plainly saying 'anyone caught with a quantity above this much is deemed to be trafficking' i.e.
it's probably a moot point as i'm sure just about everyone who has ever defended a drug charge has said raised it as a defence and probably with not too much success either.
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vandago



Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 20,942
Loc: .
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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: Dosile Kouki]
#14729916 - 07/07/11 05:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ya, "I didn't know" just doesn't work.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: Dosile Kouki] 2
#14729964 - 07/07/11 06:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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> it's high level criminal activity.
The only reason it is a "high level criminal activity" is because we have defined it as such. Nobody was harmed. No property was destroyed. There was no violence. There was no loss. There was no negligence. It was no different than driving around with a half-quart of water. Unfortunately, somebody has decided that some chemicals are extremely dangerous and that society must be protected from them while other drugs that are extremely dangerous (such as alcohol and nicotine) are fine to release into society. The double standard is staggering. Legalize all drugs. End prohibition. Let people be responsible for their own well being. Free the legal system to focus on real problems, such as violent crimes, thefts, and property damage rather than wasting their time prosecuting non-violent consensual crimes, such as drug use.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

Registered: 04/12/06
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
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Linus said: Holy fucking shit. This is fucking ridiculous.
Yes. A human tragedy and an awful use of tax dollars.
Consider volunteering or donating to the Drug Policy Alliance, they are only of the only groups that fight for the legalization of all drugs.
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I don't know why he was stopped but it probably not even a real reason as it happened right outside of a festival.
His only chance is to have the case dismissed due to an illegal search.
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12- 15 tho, this is some college kid who's life will be ruined by this.
President Jimmy Carter said that drug laws should not be more harmful than the drugs themselves, but no one listened to him.
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I think he may have been with one other person hopefully they can split it down at the very least to a half pound.
No you can't split the blame with someone else, all people get charged with the full weight.
Carter always had great ideas, but as you said no one listened to him and circumstance of the times contributed. He WASN'T a bad president in terms of ideas, but a terribly ineffective one because, as typical of Dems in that office, the other branches don't cooperate and he shown dem zero balls.
He's been one of the best ex-presidents, if not the best. Sorry to hear about your friend. Hope he can get off on a technicality or something but these kinds of cases tend to be open/shut once they hit the courtroom. Even if he was with another person they can't split the charges, they would BOTH just eat the charge for a pound. I hope if this is the case he didn't put the other person in there, ruining another kids' life. At those kinds of weights a half-pound versus a pound probably would play about the same in court anyway, that's a lotta ketty-kat right there.
~Monk
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2859558484
Growery is Better



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Re: Pound of ketamine charges (moved) [Re: numonkei] 1
#14730959 - 07/07/11 12:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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i'm pro freedom, but i'm also a realist.
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