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Legend
RIP Sasha



Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 28,336
Loc: TX
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What are the benefits of gypsum?
#14712098 - 07/03/11 05:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've heard it being used in PF cakes, but never gave it more thought. I'm curious to know if I should use it, or of it would cause more hamce of contam or just not do well. I also do not have a pressure cooker, and was just going to boil my jars like in the RR vids.
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: Legend]
#14712136 - 07/03/11 06:05 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I cant remember the exact reason but it adds food benificial to mycelium. Its used by many people in bulk substrates for giving myc all they need to fruit well.
It doesnt add any contamination risk. And steam sterilising will be just fine.
I started of with steam sterilisation, moved to a pressure cooker thinking i was getting contams cause of that and found out it was just poor sterile technik.
I took a break from growing and when i started back didnt have a pressure cooker. Out of 30 jars i only got 2 contams and that was on the last batch i done. when done right combined with good practices steam sterilisation is 99% effective for pf tek.
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Smirnoff



Registered: 01/10/11
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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: veda_sticks]
#14712246 - 07/03/11 06:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think gypsum is used to ballance the PH in the substrate. but I'm not sure if there are other benefits from it.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: Legend]
#14712266 - 07/03/11 06:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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There's several benefits. The main reason is to add calcium carbonate and sulfur, which helps to stabilize PH levels to near neutral so it acts as a PH buffer as well as adding minerals which are vital for fruiting. It also helps prevent grains from sticking and clumping.
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Doctor_Inoc
Vintage Hand
Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 646
Loc:
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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: Legend]
#14712311 - 07/03/11 06:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
legit27 said: I've heard it being used in PF cakes, but never gave it more thought. I'm curious to know if I should use it, or of it would cause more hamce of contam or just not do well. I also do not have a pressure cooker, and was just going to boil my jars like in the RR vids.
Gypsum should ALWAYS be added, whenever possible, (@ 2% by volume for grains and 5% by volume to bulk substrates) to any substrate (including BRF cakes) for all stages of myce. growth.
The addition of gypsum will NOT increase chances of contamination, being that you don't have a PC and are going to be boiling the cakes to "sterilize" them.
The benefits of adding gypsum to the various substrates of the mushroom culture makes available calcium and sulfur to the mushroom mycelium. Both are beneficial nutrients for mycelium in all stages of growth. Adding gypsum, to grains keeps grains from clumping together after sterilization.
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ISOfantastic
Mad Scientist Wannabe



Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 384
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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
#14712428 - 07/03/11 07:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's more for grains and bulk substrate. Minimal benefit in pf cakes. Forget the gypsum, get a pressure cooker.
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occollegeboi
MushroomSpaceGod



Registered: 04/10/11
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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: ISOfantastic]
#14713265 - 07/03/11 10:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I just bought a 5 pound bag of organic gypsum from amazon for only 7 bucks.
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steelmonkey
Homejigger



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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: occollegeboi]
#14713279 - 07/03/11 10:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I believe it also helps mycelium to better digest the available nutrients
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abltsandwich
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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: steelmonkey]
#14713351 - 07/03/11 11:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Gypsum adds sterilization to the pressure cooker. If you PF Tek some bulk substrate and proper sterilization pasteurization, then mushrooms and gas exchange (GE) plus FRESH AIR EXCHANGE (brown rice flower [FAE]).
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steelmonkey
Homejigger



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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: abltsandwich]
#14713401 - 07/03/11 11:18 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
abltsandwich said: Gypsum adds sterilization to the pressure cooker. If you PF Tek some bulk substrate and proper sterilization pasteurization, then mushrooms and gas exchange (GE) plus FRESH AIR EXCHANGE (brown rice flower [FAE]).
what? care to explain that?
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ISOfantastic
Mad Scientist Wannabe



Registered: 06/23/11
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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: abltsandwich]
#14713428 - 07/03/11 11:24 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
abltsandwich said: Gypsum adds sterilization to the pressure cooker. If you PF Tek some bulk substrate and proper sterilization pasteurization, then mushrooms and gas exchange (GE) plus FRESH AIR EXCHANGE (brown rice flower [FAE]).
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nixon
Funguy



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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: abltsandwich]
#14713561 - 07/03/11 11:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
abltsandwich said: Gypsum adds sterilization to the pressure cooker. If you PF Tek some bulk substrate and proper sterilization pasteurization, then mushrooms and gas exchange (GE) plus FRESH AIR EXCHANGE (brown rice flower [FAE]).
brown rice flower
-------------------- masspan said:
in your 2nd pic that mushroom is actively standing on its head for sure
nearhorn said:
what does that mean? its active?
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sage1o1
Warrior



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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: abltsandwich]
#14713707 - 07/04/11 12:31 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
abltsandwich said: Gypsum adds sterilization to the pressure cooker. If you PF Tek some bulk substrate and proper sterilization pasteurization, then mushrooms and gas exchange (GE) plus FRESH AIR EXCHANGE (brown rice flower [FAE]).
What do you mean when you say, adds sterilization to the pressure cooker? I don't think it has anything to do with the sterilization process, actually, I almost certain it doesn't.
I don't mean to be rude but your next sentence is even more confusing. You PF Tek some bulk.. what does that mean? Plus the rest of sentence is just completely unintelligible.
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Edited by sage1o1 (07/04/11 12:47 AM)
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steelmonkey
Homejigger



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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: nixon]
#14713791 - 07/04/11 12:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nixon said:
Quote:
abltsandwich said: Gypsum adds sterilization to the pressure cooker. If you PF Tek some bulk substrate and proper sterilization pasteurization, then mushrooms and gas exchange (GE) plus FRESH AIR EXCHANGE (brown rice flower [FAE]).
brown rice flower 
Believe it or not I just now got that....
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oONoodlesOo
ShroomSauce


Registered: 04/11/10
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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: steelmonkey]
#14713933 - 07/04/11 01:30 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I always wondered what this was used for, this thread answered some questions I had, thanks
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nixon
Funguy



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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: steelmonkey]
#14714044 - 07/04/11 02:18 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
steelmonkey said: Believe it or not I just now got that....
-------------------- masspan said:
in your 2nd pic that mushroom is actively standing on its head for sure
nearhorn said:
what does that mean? its active?
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SB-2
Innovator




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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: ISOfantastic]
#14714088 - 07/04/11 02:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ISOfantastic said:
Quote:
abltsandwich said: Gypsum adds sterilization to the pressure cooker. If you PF Tek some bulk substrate and proper sterilization pasteurization, then mushrooms and gas exchange (GE) plus FRESH AIR EXCHANGE (brown rice flower [FAE]).

X 2
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bbox244
Legally Insane



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Loc: USA
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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: SB-2]
#14714174 - 07/04/11 03:34 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Uh ok. Just to clarify a few things which are incorrect in the replies in this post. Gypsum is a PH neutral salt. When added to a substrate it provides calcium and sulphur, which is a beneficial nutrient to mushrooms. It IS PH Neutral, it is NOT basic, thus it is NOT a PH buffer. Granted, in some agricultural conditions, it may become acidic or basic, depending on soil conditions, but for our purposes, it's neutral. I wanted to clarify that since PH buffering is very important, and gypsum is not a buffer. If anything, I would think the sulphur in Gypsum would perhaps make the substrate more acidic over time, because of the CA SO4 separation, but, I'm not 100% on that one, never tested it. A bit on PH/Gypsum: Mycelium prefers more acidic conditions. So a more acidic substrate will colonize faster, however, it will be more susceptible to contams as well. So for gypsum use in BRF cakes, you will actually have longer cake survival because of the nutrient addition, however, do not use too much in cakes, I would just add perhaps 1/2 teaspoon per half-pint. Mushrooms lower the PH of their substrates as they grow, thus SMS has an inherently low PH. So if you want to buffer, I would buffer the cakes close to 6.4-6.8. My cakes which have been fruiting for over 2 months were buffered with lime/coffee and I started with a bit of a higher PH, 6.5, so that they would fruit longer, rather than a lower PH. Colonization times were longer, but they've been fruiting for over 2 months now, contam free. I should also mention I use (un-necessary, just my OCD) HEPA filtered air for FAE. The main additive in my BRF cakes was bee pollen and a few other partial additives. The actual formula is in one of my posts, about 2-3 weeks ago the cakes got dry and I had weird pigment changes in the caps. Fixed, with a dunk, the formula is in that post.
Gypsum is a great all around additive, it is tremendous for grains and bulk substrates, it really helps reduce clumping. Plus, as a nutrient, you can't go wrong with gypsum. It is fine for any mushroom substrate.
If you continue forward, you will find Gypsum essential with grains. Good luck!
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disco-biscuit
Domo


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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: abltsandwich]
#14714194 - 07/04/11 03:47 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
abltsandwich said: Gypsum adds sterilization to the pressure cooker. If you PF Tek some bulk substrate and proper sterilization pasteurization, then mushrooms and gas exchange (GE) plus FRESH AIR EXCHANGE (brown rice flower [FAE]).
I lol'd so hard.
Quick question though - how much gypsum should i add to my 1qt 3/4 full wbs jar before PC'ing?
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ISOfantastic
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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: disco-biscuit]
#14714230 - 07/04/11 04:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
disco-biscuit said: I lol'd so hard.
Quick question though - how much gypsum should i add to my 1qt 3/4 full wbs jar before PC'ing?
I usually add tablespoon or two to the soak water for a batch of 12 jars, any kind of grain.
Quote:
abltsandwich said: Gypsum adds sterilization to the pressure cooker. If you PF Tek some bulk substrate and proper sterilization pasteurization, then mushrooms and gas exchange (GE) plus FRESH AIR EXCHANGE (brown rice flower [FAE]).
I had to make that post my sig. Hope you don't mind BLT.
Edited by ISOfantastic (07/04/11 04:45 AM)
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King Cap
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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: Shroomism]
#14714261 - 07/04/11 04:42 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: There's several benefits. The main reason is to add calcium carbonate and sulfur, which helps to stabilize PH levels to near neutral so it acts as a PH buffer as well as adding minerals which are vital for fruiting. It also helps prevent grains from sticking and clumping.
This is incorrect. Gypsum is calcium SULPHATE not carbonate, they are different chemicals. Carbonate is used as a ph buffer. Gypsum adds calcium and sulfur as nutrients, so says RR in his videos.
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steelmonkey
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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: ISOfantastic]
#14714477 - 07/04/11 07:01 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ISOfantastic said:
Quote:
disco-biscuit said: I lol'd so hard.
Quick question though - how much gypsum should i add to my 1qt 3/4 full wbs jar before PC'ing?
I usually add tablespoon or two to the soak water for a batch of 12 jars, any kind of grain.
Quote:
abltsandwich said: Gypsum adds sterilization to the pressure cooker. If you PF Tek some bulk substrate and proper sterilization pasteurization, then mushrooms and gas exchange (GE) plus FRESH AIR EXCHANGE (brown rice flower [FAE]).
I had to make that post my sig. Hope you don't mind BLT.

lol I know its just like a ramble I can't stop reading it
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: King Cap]
#14716308 - 07/04/11 03:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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My mistake... I meant sulphate.. I've got too much calcium carbonate on the brain
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bbox244
Legally Insane



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Re: What are the benefits of gypsum? [Re: Shroomism]
#14716576 - 07/04/11 04:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Notes on how I do my WBS jars, for which I've had really good success. Including my gypsum usage, and a bit on how garden gypsum works when using for a soak.
For my 12 quart batches, I add 1 cup of gypsum. The nice thing about pelletized gypsum is that the binder is water soluble. This means you don't have to grind it, I just put it in my soak brew, bring the whole brew up to 175 deg for 15 mins, and pour it (after cooling) onto my grans for a 24-36 hour soak. I also add a lot of brewed coffee and some hydrated lime to buffer the ph to 6.5. I've had tremendous results doing WBS this way. I have to stir my brew really well before pouring since the gypsum will collect on the bottom of the pot, them I pour into the bucket of WBS, and let it all soak. I let the water cool a bit to about 140 deg before my pour, since I don't want to bust any kernels. This has worked remarkably well for me. When using a GLC, I usually see growth in 48hours. The jars are fully colonized in about a week or so, depending on how prolific the strain is. Also, when moving the grains to bulk, or even fruit by themselves for experimental purposes (to see if the isolate fruits), I have found that I never get contamination. This is because I start with a higher PH. Also, my casing PH is really high, almost 8, even 8.1 sometimes.
Only once did I have a jar contam, and that was because the agar plate I took the isolate from had been contaminated with cobweb mold. This was because the parafilm had cracked and there was a rather wide gap in my tri-section plate over one of the sections. This particular section was covered with cobweb. Amazingly enough though, only the jar inoculated with that section got cobweb. Also, I caught it quick, injected 4cc's of h202 3%, and shook. One week later, the jar was fully colonized with very thick white mycelium. When I get around to it, I'm going to grow out a single grain on Agar to make double sure the grains are safe. Even though the mycelium is perfectly white and not grey anymore, I know cobweb could still be lurking somewhere, so I'm not taking any chances, but, it did clear all visual evidence of cobweb, so I think it'll be safe to use.
For colonization speed example's, B+ and PESA are the fastest colonizer's I presently have. My PFC strain is the slowest. However, I only started my PFC grows with a single syringe in the beginning, and I was a noob when I got it, so I think I'm in need of some fresh genetics regarding my PFC strain, so I think my colonization times are suspect with PFC. Now, temp is a factor as well, so I optimize my incubators for the fastest temp for each strain.
Incubation is not necessary however, unless you have really dramatic temperature fluctuations like I do, which will be remedied shortly when I cover my lab with radiant insulation, which I did a whole thread about, it's cheap, and it's amazing, it reflects 97% of heat so I use it on all my TiT incubators and TiT modded-SGFC FC's. Once I cover my lab, I know my energy costs will drop substantially. Even with my rapid temp flucs, I can still colonize fine on a shelf when I run out of room, and everything still colonizes, it just takes a few weeks longer.
-------------------- .... Always curious, always looking for better ways, mind always wonders ....
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