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Offlinetheallseeingeye
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Registered: 07/01/11
Posts: 69
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: anonjon]
    #14707488 - 07/02/11 05:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

anonjon:
I think you are being judgmental and it sounds slightly ignorant that you don't care how things work, just that they work. So how do you know that a new idea might work better unless you try? I am just putting my thoughts out there and seeing if anyone has good advice, not judgmental ignorant remarks. The way you think drives me nuts... I believe it is better to question things rather to just accept something someone told me. I am not moaning about anything, do you know the definition of moaning? Does it sound like I am in sorrow or pain? No. I am frustrated at ignorant responses, maybe. I am mostly excited though about learning about mycology. I know how to get good flushes, I have, and I have only been doing this for a couple months. I have observed my projects, and I am building experience. I am just looking for improvement. Why is one of the most important questions a person can ask, it allows one to understand a topic, not just know what the topic is. Sorry I do not want to be ignorant, but rather enlightened. I would appreciate it if you did not comment on my posts, you do not seem to be of much help to me. I can read, and I know many of the teks out there, so I don't need someone to repeat what I have already read. I am looking for new info to improve on old methods. And if I cannot improve on those methods at least I will have tried and hopefully I will be able to understand why I cannot improve on the current methods (if I can't, but I am very persistent).

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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: theallseeingeye]
    #14707495 - 07/02/11 05:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

theallseeingeye said:
Thank you for the reply and the link. Sorry I was not directing my angry response towards one person in particular, it's just I was looking for some positive feed back on this forum, I do not see the point in telling people what you think works and hacking at their idea if you do not completely understand it. I'm not saying I completely understand it, because I don't I'm just here to learn. And I have looked at many of those additives, and a lot of them sound interesting and I plan on experimenting with them. I just thought it would be interesting to have exact concise nutrients so I could repeat an idealistic environment. I will just have to spend time experimenting and post the results I get.





We do understand, its like you asking what plant food to add to your own diet to make you healthier. Thats not what mushrooms eat. It has been tried by many people over the years. The results are always the same, worse results then without the plant foods or nothing at all. Mushrooms eat solid food. Experiment all you want, but you should expect if you post stuff like this that anyone with any experience is going to give you this answer. Unless you just want people who have no experience in doing it to tell you, "Sure try this and that and this and that"

Oh and gypsum is calcium sulfate, not calcium carbonate (chalk) as someone said.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Offlinetheallseeingeye
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Registered: 07/01/11
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14707542 - 07/02/11 05:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That is like saying people shouldn't take vitamin pills... seriously? I want to provide the mushrooms with the correct nutrients, and only the nutrients they need as well as providing an ideal environment. I believe it is possible to enhance certain foods that we give the mushrooms, maybe people just haven't gone about it in the right way, I haven't seen any methods on which I am thinking about. So I will experiment. And people with what experience are going to give me that answer? People without experience in trying what I am going to try and only experience in doing what works? I am not going to stop posting my ideas on here, just because some people will try and shut me down, I will just weed out the answers I am looking for, and I should probably stop wasting my time trying to make an argument without support to back it up, but once I have my data I will come back to this question with my results.

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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: theallseeingeye]
    #14707577 - 07/02/11 05:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You dont have data of failures, thats why nobody provides any. I'm telling you over the years I have seen probably 40-50 people say the EXACT same things you are. Never hear ONE success out of any of them. Thats data.

People take vitamins, how much plant food is in there? Vitamins are meant for people. There are many "vitamins" for your mushrooms. They include coffee grounds, castings, calcium, sulfite, grains and fiber.

Will you be trying to crush up vitamins and mix them in your substrate next?

If you post ideas without any data to back them up, expect them to be trampled on.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Offlinetheallseeingeye
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Registered: 07/01/11
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14707646 - 07/02/11 05:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry for having more hope for this forum in the sense of support and advice with biological backup, not just experience from what you or others tried, I don't know what they did and how persistent they were, it takes time to develop new ideas which I am willing to try. I don't really care for your sarcastic remarks and I have not had any failures in mycology yet. I assume I will when I start experimenting but I will test multiple ways and I know how to follow a scientific procedure. With all the negative feed back I am getting with hardly any scientific proof to back up what everyone has said I doubt the people that you heard trying to add nutrients did not go about it in the right way and were not persistent. Patience is a virtue, especially when dealing with mycology, and even more so experimenting with new ideas. So I want to close this post, unless anyone has scientific proof and data that adding the correct nutrients will not work. Otherwise I gladly welcome support and any ideas, of course with some reasoning... Thank you.

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InvisibleeLShaMukO
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: scatmanrav]
    #14707749 - 07/02/11 06:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Until the latest and greatest information is updated on this site we can expect the misinformation to continue.




:picard:





People do what they know works, great. That is boring, I can do what works. And I am, but on the side I want to experiment
Quote:



if you got the money and materials to waste, you are a free man or boy.
Quote:

I am getting with hardly any scientific proof to back up what everyone has said I doubt the people that you heard trying to add nutrients did not go about it in the right way and were not persistent.




i would be :tard: to make scientific papers of things that have failed.


--------------------

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OfflineCrushed
Sober Enough


Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 96
Loc: Southwest
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: eLShaMukO]
    #14707878 - 07/02/11 06:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

If you want to determine which additional nutrients may be beneficial in a scientific manner, you should prepare an experiment where you control genetics, moisture, light, and fresh air, varying only one additive at time (preferably several trials to verify results).

If you want to throw random shit in, go for it. But don't expect people to give you the "opinions" you want.

That said, mushrooms will not respond well (if at all) to plant food. They do not obtain nutrition via photosynthesis and do not have very similar cell structures, therefore there is very little that helps plants that will help mushrooms.


--------------------
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.

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Offlinetheallseeingeye
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: Crushed]
    #14708033 - 07/02/11 07:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It is becoming humorous reading these responses. I know how to keep a scientific study controlled, I have won numerous science fairs and discovered new ideas of doing things. I will not be throwing random shit in my experiment. And no shit mushrooms don't obtain nutrition via photosynthesis, but they do need light to get vitamin d which allows them to absorb other nutrients. And it is false to say that there is very little that helps plants that will help mushrooms, that is quite ignorant mushrooms use many of the same things plants do just in different ways. Anyways I specifically said do not respond unless you are going to be helpful and have new info... so why would you respond?

Jeez...

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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: theallseeingeye]
    #14708097 - 07/02/11 07:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You need to use an isolate to get the best scientific comparision

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Offlinetheallseeingeye
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14708153 - 07/02/11 07:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

True. I am working on that now, but it will take time before I can start this experiment (waiting for an isolate), I am just in the process of thinking about my idea scientifically. I have plenty of time to think before I can start experimenting, I'm sure I will at least learn a few things along the way and that is what science is all about.

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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: theallseeingeye]
    #14708938 - 07/02/11 10:53 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I never said you had failures, I said 40 or 50 others have tried and failed. What scientific proof do you want? The exact amount of everything a mushroom needs? No one knows exactly, there is no proof because there is no way to have any. No one is taking the optimal substrate and putting it into a machine to tell you exactly what chemicals are in it, because no one has access to those machines. So if you want to set up the experiment with all the controls and try to document it, you could probably write a book on it. Even the people who have written books on cubensis wouldnt be able to answer your question.

Good luck.

How can you get any better then horse poo and bird seed?



--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Edited by scatmanrav (07/02/11 11:00 PM)

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InvisibleHipsterDoofus
older than dirt
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Registered: 12/07/06
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: theallseeingeye]
    #14708952 - 07/02/11 10:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Mushroom nutrients are organic matter, like rice flour or grains.

Plant nutrients are minerals like nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium.

It's completely different but we use the same word, nutrients, so it's confusing.

But it's different.

So, no, using plant nutrients will not help mushrooms.

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Offlinetheallseeingeye
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: HipsterDoofus]
    #14709491 - 07/03/11 01:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm justing going to drop the topic, and post results when I experiment.

Anyways...

Wow scatmanrav, is that pic your flush? beautiful. So do you use horse poo and bird seed? did you use an isolate strain? Congrats, I hope my upcoming flushes look like that! I just started using aluminum bins about that size along with the addition of coir to my fruiting substrate.

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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: theallseeingeye]
    #14713873 - 07/04/11 01:13 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

No I didnt isolate the strain. Its just MS, tested and split off using G2G. Good genetics is what you need to worry about instead of spending alot of time to find out you cant really fit any more mushrooms on the substrate if you do it right.
And its easy to do, with just rye cased with coir/verm:



Or WBS with coir/verm/gypsum substrate:


Rye mixed with horse manure/verm with a bit of coir and gypsum always gave me the best flushes:


And they come big too:


If it aint broke why fix it?

You have to understand, we come on here and say these things so future newbies dont search and drag up this thread and think its a good idea. Even if its possible (which mushrooms digest solid food matter over time before fruiting, then fruit and dont need anymore NPK then they get from what they digest) there are far more important things to work on. Good genetics and growing conditions are far more important then what you grow them on.

Fungus thrives on the rotting trash of mother nature, thats whats so great about it, you can grow alot of mushrooms on trash (manure, sawdust, old paper) and this is what they thrive on.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Edited by scatmanrav (07/04/11 01:19 AM)

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Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: theallseeingeye]
    #14715768 - 07/04/11 01:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

theallseeingeye said:
anonjon:
I think you are being judgmental and it sounds slightly ignorant that you don't care how things work, just that they work. So how do you know that a new idea might work better unless you try? I am just putting my thoughts out there and seeing if anyone has good advice, not judgmental ignorant remarks. The way you think drives me nuts... I believe it is better to question things rather to just accept something someone told me. I am not moaning about anything, do you know the definition of moaning? Does it sound like I am in sorrow or pain? No. I am frustrated at ignorant responses, maybe. I am mostly excited though about learning about mycology. I know how to get good flushes, I have, and I have only been doing this for a couple months. I have observed my projects, and I am building experience. I am just looking for improvement. Why is one of the most important questions a person can ask, it allows one to understand a topic, not just know what the topic is. Sorry I do not want to be ignorant, but rather enlightened. I would appreciate it if you did not comment on my posts, you do not seem to be of much help to me. I can read, and I know many of the teks out there, so I don't need someone to repeat what I have already read. I am looking for new info to improve on old methods. And if I cannot improve on those methods at least I will have tried and hopefully I will be able to understand why I cannot improve on the current methods (if I can't, but I am very persistent).





You just want someone to tell you what a genius you are for your experiments despite the fact you don't even have any of the fundamentals down.

And when someone tries to share something with you from their experience, you get self-righteous and demand that they explain themselves and go off about how they might be wrong on the basis of your deductive reasoning.

You are a clueless teenager wanting to reinvent the wheel. There's at least one a week passing thru here.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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InvisibleeLShaMukO
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: anonjon]
    #14715939 - 07/04/11 02:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You just want someone to tell you what a genius you are for your experiments despite the fact you don't even have any of the fundamentals down.




dont say thatm he'll want a scientific paper for that to :rofl2:


Quote:

I would appreciate it if you did not comment on my posts




no problem with that :frankly: 

over and out Mr science fair.


--------------------

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Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: eLShaMukO]
    #14715966 - 07/04/11 02:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That's what the ignore feature is for.

4 people are ignoring me.
:headbang:


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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Offlinetheallseeingeye
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: anonjon]
    #14716036 - 07/04/11 02:23 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I am not looking for anyone to tell me I am a genius, I don't think I am a genius. What fundamentals don't I have down? How can you judge me if you do not even know me, or what I know? I am not a clueless teenager and I am not going to begin to explain to you why I am not because it is pointless arguing with you. I love advice, I learn quite a bit from advice, sorry I like to know why things work, that is just me. I don't appreciate someone ripping on me just because they can. To me that is messed up. What good does belittling another person do? Does it help your ego? I want advice, and thank you for your advice I just do not appreciate the way some people communicate. And since I cannot change that, I will just ignore people who cannot give humble advice. And, the nutrients I am looking into experimenting with are used in hydroponics yes, but guess what, do you know where those nutrients they get come from? Organic material like oyster shells and limes and what not... things many people use to aide in the cultivation of mushrooms.

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Offlinetheallseeingeye
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: theallseeingeye]
    #14716072 - 07/04/11 02:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

scatmanrav, thanks for the advice. It looks like you have your mushroom cultivation techniques down. And I am working on getting good genetics, and once I find some I like I hope to isolate and clone.

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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Advice on adding nutrients... [Re: theallseeingeye]
    #14718420 - 07/05/11 12:06 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Most of those are after I was only growing for 1-12 months (7 years ago). It really doesnt take much, cubensis really dont need much to preform to 100% capacity.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Shop: North Spore Boomr Bag   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Mushroom-Hut Grow Bags   OlympusMyco.com No Unicorns Here—Just Quality Bags That Work   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


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