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kdmmontana


Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
#14700303 - 07/01/11 03:32 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I never hugged that itchy bear
Edited by kdmmontana (07/07/11 05:47 PM)
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the astronaut



Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 447
Loc: usa
Last seen: 6 months, 1 day
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
#14700551 - 07/01/11 06:40 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I just did provide evidense so calm down.
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tr8orjohn
Waiting for an airplane...



Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 162
Loc: Down in...Mexico
Last seen: 12 years, 29 days
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
#14700621 - 07/01/11 07:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm pretty curious about this myself...Jiffy Mix, which is a potting soil substitute, is used as casing for bulk quite a bit...potting soil can't be *that* different.
Try it on one cake and get back to us! Potting soil out of the bag should be sanitized at least (since plants aren't happy in a bacteria filled substrate either), and should have a decent water-holding capacity without providing too many nutrients
-jon
-------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Microbiologist turned mycologist, but still amateur enough to enjoy the occasional surprise...
My Trade List
Terry M said:
Looking for rules that other people use successfully. Sterile procedure is just a set of rules that work.
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ShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
#14700816 - 07/01/11 08:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
kdmmontana said:
Quote:
the astronaut said:
Quote:
There is little to gain with such practice as the mycelia will not grow in a vegetative state, post jar so to speak. I once tried to slice up cakes just for fun and covered them with verm, thus re-enacting your experiment, only with verm instead of soil. It worked just fine, however I got the same shitty small results, so there is no gaining in doing what you just did, its just a fun thing thats all.
When u roll a wet cake in dry verm ur kinda making a mini
casing layer and soil is a great casing since its what mother nature
uses right? When a cake is fully colonized it is very contam
resistant, its usually the bulk grows that are easily contaminated.
And that pic is not at all a re-enacting my experiment (u used verm
and I used soil). That pot is huge and I put all kinds of stuff in
there to decompose (leaves from bonsai tree, pieces of rotten
vegetables, receipts from the gas station, sticks from bonsai tree,
card board pieces) and I have been puting all that trash in there for
over 1 year now to enrich the soil so its plum full of contamination
both bacteria and molds. Im not out to get u man just saying it would
work, I dont even think ud have to sterilize the soil just do it to be
safe. Mushrooms grow in the wild without any sterile conditions or
somone cooking, misting, faning, light bulbs or all that other shit
and they grow just fine and happy as hell. Oh and dont worry about the
reading cause thats been done years ago and I do have a side as I
posted it and mind ur ratings as well. LOL right, peace man. And by
the way most of us dont grow for distribution just for fun.
I believe you when I see pictures of your dirt casing layers, that much I will say. I dont mean to put you down because of your experimenting, but I find it frivolous to just believe that you can substitute Verm for Soil but If we are given evidence I guess we can reconsider.
And dont fucking talk down to me like you and 30 others are sitting there smirking you insepid ****, you are the one who sits here and brags about soil and whatnot so YOU supply the evidence of your work.
Chill out bro
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 3,293
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14700929 - 07/01/11 09:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do whatever you want. You'll eventually find something that works the best. Soil isn't it, but sometimes it takes trial and error to find what works the best. [/thread]
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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drwatson
Slacker



Registered: 10/29/07
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: Wing]
#14700937 - 07/01/11 09:33 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
the astronaut said: I just did provide evidense so calm down.
Burying a contaminated cake in a potted plant OUTSIDE of a FC IS NOT the same thing as rolling a cake in Soil and putting it in a FC. Completely different environment. 
OP, if you are using a FC and you don't feel like risking your project to experimentation, than I'd suggest rolling in Wet Perlite if you can't get more verm.
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kdmmontana


Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: drwatson]
#14702542 - 07/01/11 03:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Okay, let me get this straight:
First off DrWatson, I misread you a bit; now I see you were agains this practice. I am on your side. 
And now onto everybody else...and I am one of those! and this also concerns the astronaut of course..
This has to be the most moronic argument that I have read (and I have started some pretty dumb shit in the past) Potting soil contains..a whole lot, a lot of which should not be inside your FC at all. That aside, if there is ANY ADVANTAGE using soil, which I hardly believe then I would like to see evidence of that. We can have a competition, one half of the gang uses regular Verm, the other side uses soil and then we will see the results of that competition.
What we have so far seen evidence of it that mushrooms fruit and in this case they did so buried in soil, what I do not understand or accept is the fact that using soil is seen as some magical invention just because astronaut here managed to grow 4 mini mushrooms in a pot of soil. I gave him the picture, posted above in this thread; but for arguments sake here it is again:

I explained: I have done what you have done, its not hard. I used Verm instead. It worked. 4 healthy little mushrooms, same as astronauts, came up. Wow. Was it cool, yes. Was it fun, yes. Does it prove a point? No.
You are obviously thinking that there is some sort of ADVANTAGE with using soil, because there is no sane reason other than that to actually use it. If there is an ADVANTAGE (meaning you get fatter/healthier/better) then this makes sense and I am just a nobody posting a unique picture sort of describing the exact same experiment which astronaut just conducted. God I feel awfully stupid.
No, so far we have seen evidence of that mushrooms fruit, that some people are amazed over this fact and that most of us obviously are ignorant fools. Thats all. The second I see evidence of the following I can continue to (not) support this (so far) crap.
1: That Soil is somehow better to use than Verm 2. That Soil can be used at all, without terrible results 3. That Soil somehow improves, makes the cakes feel better, make larger fruits, whatever... 4. Scientific and forum supported practical Teks, written and greenlighted by people far above in the skies...
Astronaut; do this: TRY IT THEN! Then take pictures and show us all.
Shroomy John; I am wiping my forehead as we speak:) I am not angry, Calm thoughts...calm thoughts....
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the astronaut



Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 447
Loc: usa
Last seen: 6 months, 1 day
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
#14702718 - 07/01/11 04:34 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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seriously man just calm down, Im not stating at all that soil is gonna make better fruits I just think it would work. And since this got so heated for no reason I will do this.
Quote:
This is a pic of a small piece of pf cake that was contaminated so I cut it off(mutilated the cake) and buried it in the pot with the plant. The soil was far from sterile and the fc was the leaves for humidity. But it worked just fine so in my opinion it should work fine but if I could not find verm I wouldnt roll it at all.
Please read my first post more carefully before getting so worked up. *And as I said u didnt do at all what I did, please read the posts more carefully man Im really not out to get u.
Edited by the astronaut (07/01/11 04:39 PM)
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kdmmontana


Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
#14702881 - 07/01/11 05:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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What I have seen so far is nothing short of disaster and when you are told you act up.
*slap on the wrist with a stick as thick as Barak Obamas finger...and theyre mighty thick"
Edited by kdmmontana (07/07/11 05:52 PM)
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ISOfantastic
Mad Scientist Wannabe



Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 384
Loc: Firmly planted in reality
Last seen: 12 years, 18 days
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I like rolling in potting soil when I want to expose my cakes to loads of extra trichoderma spores right after birthing. Also, if you moisten the soil after the roll, it provides a great microclimate to germinate all those spores!
Edited by ISOfantastic (07/01/11 05:28 PM)
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kdmmontana


Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: ISOfantastic] 1
#14703013 - 07/01/11 05:34 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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EDIT
Reason: Obviously cakes are not enough, so buckets were used...
Edited by kdmmontana (07/02/11 10:16 AM)
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ISOfantastic
Mad Scientist Wannabe



Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 384
Loc: Firmly planted in reality
Last seen: 12 years, 18 days
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
#14703082 - 07/01/11 05:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was addressing the OPs original question. You crazy kids can squabble all you like, doesn't change the heavy presence of trichoderma spores in most potting soils :P
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kdmmontana


Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: ISOfantastic]
#14703135 - 07/01/11 05:53 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I fully agree with you ISO.
Hey I am not crazy or a kid...what manners:P
love to ya all!
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AnarchyAndPeace
The Anarchist



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 50
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
#14703387 - 07/01/11 06:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I swear I wont do it XP I misread another thread! lol
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the astronaut



Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 447
Loc: usa
Last seen: 6 months, 1 day
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Im still gonna do it LOL, and Ill post the results right here.
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AnarchyAndPeace
The Anarchist



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 50
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
#14703661 - 07/01/11 07:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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sweet lol
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bonnahoo
A Friend



Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 371
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AWwww I read this whole thread and really have no advice for ya, maybe sterilized/pasteurized compost if someone wants to fuck around with something thats not verm :IDK: ....but I did really want to share my love too! so here ya go <3 <3 <3
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the astronaut



Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 447
Loc: usa
Last seen: 6 months, 1 day
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: bonnahoo]
#14704343 - 07/01/11 10:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok so here is a pic of an experiment that went both right and wrong. I had a jar that had a bacterial infection so I used an old dicloxocilon pill I had and mixed it with some water and used it with the crumbled cake. Unfortunately the antibiotic ruined the fruiting ability of the myc but rid it of the bacteria. After several weeks of no fruit I added an additional layer of verm as a casing and put wax paper on to to have huge humidity in the casing with no luck. I gave it plenty of light fresh air and enough water to keep it moist still no luck, so I took the cake out of the fc and put it in a slightly larger one and cased with potting soil hoping the microbiological activity would some how help get the job done, didnt work but here is a pic of the sub,,
 As u see the myc is healthy with no signs of contam very strong mushroom smell but still after 2 weeks no mushrooms or pins or any thing other than myc. So just to prove its healthy I cut a piece out cause its gonna go in the trash or plant pot anyway so here it is,,,
 As u see no trich or bacteria and I didnt even sterilize the soil. Not trying to be a smart ass just passing on some info, so their it is and hope it helped.
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ISOfantastic
Mad Scientist Wannabe



Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 384
Loc: Firmly planted in reality
Last seen: 12 years, 18 days
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
#14705060 - 07/02/11 01:23 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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So you added an antibiotic pill...ruined your myc...and you're saying it's good cause there's no bacterial infection?
I doubt dicloxacillin's percieved "effect" on the soil. You seriously believe that? If anything, it renders it the soil toxic to the weaker organisms dwelling in it. Or it was such a small amount compared to the sub that it was merely a nuisance to the colonizing, unhealthy mycelium.

I'm satisfied when I fruit with no bacterial infections. When I get them, I toss the cake or jar or bag and call it a loss. Interesting experiment tho.
Edited by ISOfantastic (07/02/11 07:10 AM)
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kdmmontana


Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
#14705587 - 07/02/11 06:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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There is no evidence that your end result was or is free of bacteria at all.
Astronaut, please listen to what I have to say: Do not do this any more. The way you are conducting your so called experiment is DANGEROUS. Those growing blotches of bacteria are DANGEROUS and they may spread. You do not know what family or type of bacteria it is, it could be anything from harmless to close to lethal.
I am just concerned about you, do not do this again. Rather follow the PF TEK and make some proper jars, but do not ever start growing mushroom spores in buckets of soil. Do not ever handle bacterial contamination like you did, holding it with your hands! Do not touch that stuff, ever. There is a reason doctors and patholgists and such people carry facemasks and rubber gloves...
I wish you luck in the future, but try to understand that this is not the way to go down at all
I hope you are healthy and well, stop doing what you just did. Its dangerous.
Love from KD
Edited by kdmmontana (07/02/11 10:14 AM)
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