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OfflineBusted
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Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function)
    #14701332 - 07/01/11 11:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I have been lurking this forum for a month or so, planning on growing some cubensis soon for the first time.  I have spent hours searching google for a website actually selling the coarse vermiculite that I need to do this but after placing three orders from three different companies, all I have now is three different bags of fine vermiculite (and about $40 wasted).  I can't find a SINGLE place selling coarse vermiculite (which seems to be the kind that will mix right).  I searched these forums for how to use fine vermiculite but all I found was mixed opinions on whether or not you could even use fine verm.  Half of the people said it worked fine but other people said they couldn't get colonization after months because of the lack of porousness.  I don't have a grinder so I can't grind coarse BRF to make it more porous.

I tried mixing a substrate using fine vermiculite but it just felt like wet sand.  Then I mixed in the BRF and it still felt like wet sand.  How can I do this with all this tons of fine vermiculite that I have now?  I'm pretty frustrated that I wasted all this money buying the wrong stuff but I still want to make this work...

Your help is appreciated.

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Busted]
    #14701352 - 07/01/11 11:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I've used fine, it's ok. Medium or coarse works better.
local garden shops have it in big bags, ask the girl with the nose ring.


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OfflineDave Bowman
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Doc_T]
    #14701412 - 07/01/11 11:32 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You can still use it just fine.  It will still work to grow.
For my first couple of years all I used was fine grade.

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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Dave Bowman]
    #14701485 - 07/01/11 11:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

A quote from rr:
Quote:

Fine vermiculite.  Course verm is better suited as a building insulation, and fine verm is better suited for mycology.
RR





I have been looking for fine verm but can only find coarse :tongue2:

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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: deadmandave]
    #14701511 - 07/01/11 11:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I always thought you only wanted fine verm and have never used coarse

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InvisibleGzaajhom
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Dave Bowman]
    #14701516 - 07/01/11 11:58 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Fine verm works great. You mentioned you don't have a grinder, but if you have a blender you can use that to prepare your BRF from whole rice. It will be very coarse and won't exactly be a "flour," but that's good because it helps compensate for the fine verm.

Also, if you have a pressure cooker you can actually substitute the verm with used coffee grounds. I'm not sure how much water they hold in comparison to verm, but I know that they hold a lot. I have successfully grown BRF cakes substituting verm 100% with coffee grounds.


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OfflineBusted
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Gzaajhom]
    #14701652 - 07/01/11 12:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Wow guys, thanks for the fast responses.

1 - no pressure cooker, going to have to use a pot for sterilization

2 - my local garden shop is just a hardware store, nowhere else within walking distance sells garden supplies, and all they have is fine verm.

3 - one of my bags (the latest I received) is 'medium' so I'll use that.

4 - I don't have a coffee grinder or coffee grinds, caffeine intake in this house comes either from my Keurig B60 or my dad's espresso maker, both of which use cups :/ (though I guess I could open each individual used cup and get the grinds... but that would be a huge pain and I'd have to wait for enough of them lol).  Actually... I could do that.  Should I collect coffee grinds and add them into my substrate? 1 part water, 1 part medium verm, 1 part coffee grinds, 1 part BRF?  Or would this not work without a pressure cooker for some reason>

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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Busted]
    #14701669 - 07/01/11 12:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

the espresso grinds is fine and your not going to need that much 1-2 tblspoons per 6 cakes

Doesnt rr say to use fine verm in the lets grow videos?

Your proportions for cakes is off too.  its 2:1:1 verm:brf:water

Watch me

I may be wrong about the proportions for cakes i havent done them in years but thats what I think it is.  Watch those videos and it should answer enough of your questions


Edited by UnnamedGrower (07/01/11 12:44 PM)

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OfflineBusted
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14701697 - 07/01/11 12:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I know the proportions for PF tek is 2verm:1BRF:1water, but I thought that if I was using coffee grinds I would take out 1 part verm and add 1 part coffee grinds.  What does adding the coffee grinds do anyway?  I'll add a couple tablespoons to my mix when I do it but I like understanding things, if you care to explain it

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OfflineBusted
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Busted]
    #14701704 - 07/01/11 12:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

And I've already watched those videos like 5 times lol

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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Busted] * 1
    #14701710 - 07/01/11 12:49 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Busted said:
I know the proportions for PF tek is 2verm:1BRF:1water, but I thought that if I was using coffee grinds I would take out 1 part verm and add 1 part coffee grinds.  What does adding the coffee grinds do anyway?  I'll add a couple tablespoons to my mix when I do it but I like understanding things, if you care to explain it



Your adding nitrogen to the cake which improves growth speed and flush size
Quote:

Busted said:
And I've already watched those videos like 5 times lol



:super:

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OfflineBusted
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14701801 - 07/01/11 01:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Alright cool, I'll definitely try this.  Only thing is I posted on Rollitup as well, and some guy is telling me to do a popcorn tek or something and that PF tek sucks.  What do you think?

Thread: http://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/443977-growing-mushrooms-fine-vermiculite.html

Post: "Boil popcorn in water till just a few kernels burst, drain the popcorn, put the popcorn in what ever container you are using to sterilze. inoculate the popcorn and shake it every few days until you have full coverage, probably 10 days, depending on how you inoculated to begin with. Then empty the popcorn into a container, tray, shoebox whathave you. Give it a day or two more and case with 50/50 vermiculite and coir sweetened with a bit of lime. Put that in what ever incubation box you already have set up for the PF and wait till it colonizes the casing. Then start spraying water on the surface, after a bit you hve lots more mushrooms than you could get with the PF method. If you wish, after your 4th flush or so you can dunk the entire pop corn cake for another flush. the PF method was meant to get around casing by making the casing inherent in the substrate and it was meant to work for people withoug large pressure cookers. Indeed though, the guy found a way to get you to buy lots of syringes. In fact one only needs a tiny fraction of the liquid in a single syringe in order to grow an unlimited amount of mushrooms. He knew this which is why his tek is so wonderful, I recall the tek recoomends using a significant portion of a syringe for each jar - what is it? half pints? Anyway, more power to him."

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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Busted]
    #14701831 - 07/01/11 01:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Popcorn? No freakin' way.

Anybody says PF Tek sucks doesn't know how to grow mushrooms, plain and simple.


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OfflineBusted
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Doc_T]
    #14701857 - 07/01/11 01:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Popcorn? No freakin' way.

Anybody says PF Tek sucks doesn't know how to grow mushrooms, plain and simple.




That's what I thought.  Thanks!  I'll be starting my PF tek tonight.

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OfflineKing Cap
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Busted]
    #14701892 - 07/01/11 01:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Busted said:
I know the proportions for PF tek is 2verm:1BRF:1water,




Just be warned that this is only an approximation. Finer verm holds more water than coarse verm because it has less void space. I messed up my water content on my first round of jars. My verm was too coarse, and thus the standard recipe brought moisture content too high. Look up some articles on field capacity, your substrate should always be at field capacity, better a little dry than wet


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Edited by King Cap (07/01/11 05:54 PM)

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OfflineBusted
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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: King Cap]
    #14701951 - 07/01/11 01:39 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So would finer verm require more water?

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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Busted]
    #14701969 - 07/01/11 01:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Same amount of water.


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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: Doc_T]
    #14701995 - 07/01/11 01:49 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

popcorn over brf cakes?  No fucking way :lmafo:

Ive only ever used fine verm and the classic recipe produce field capacity cakes every time

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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14702035 - 07/01/11 01:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Coffee increases nitrogen which increases the chance of contam. I would only use coffee if i could sterilize the cake via a pressure cooker.

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Re: Fine vermiculite (yes I did use the search function) [Re: deadmandave]
    #14702040 - 07/01/11 02:01 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Gypsum is a better additive to cakes that wont be sterilized via PC

Edited by UnnamedGrower (07/01/11 02:02 PM)

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