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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1473205 -

potency is definitely by weight.

if i take a 6 gram bag of mushrooms, all of similar potency, then split it into 2 piles... one of 2 grams, and one of 4 grams. is one pile more potent than the other? of course not.

otherwise it's called psiloc(yb)in content. this divided by weight... is what is known as potency.

the 4 gram bag has twice as much active tryptamines as the 2 gram bag, but also weighs twice as much. they are equal in potency.

large mature mushrooms contain more active tryptamines than little aborts, but weigh considerably more and are less potent.

you will trip more from 3 grams of aborts than 3 grams of mature fruit.

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1473332 -

Could it be that the psilocybin continues to be produced in aborts, while the mushroom itself stops growing? You could test for this by seeing if the abort is more potent when it is picked at the same time as all the mature fruits, as opposed to picking it right when it has aborted.

Sort of interesting link slightly related to how psilocyin maybe evolved/ it's purpose:

Terence McKenna's "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution


--------------------
" I think Pringles' initial intention was to make tennis balls. But on the day that the rubber was supposed to show up, a big truckload of potatoes arrived. But Pringles is a laid-back company. They said "Fuck it. Cut em up." "

-Mitch Hedberg

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: mtglu]
    #1473391 -

Hm... I never thought about it that way before


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1473507 -

Quote:
The potency of a mushroom increases over time as well as the size of the mushroom. But they do not remain proportional to each other. Why this is, and this is my own theory: Since the chemical is ment to ward off animals from eating it in the first place, I believe that when just pinning it creates much psilocybin in order for it not too seem tastful choice to eat, especially for smaller animals. When it then becomes more mature, it already has enough for it not too seem a good choice to eat. I dont know if that made any sense but I drew a graph of what it might look like.



Also with the MAOI's, definately what mushmaster said, be careful. Also, its not the same kinda of trip so just to make you aware.


Then why would certain strains have morep otency than others?


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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-->The above statements may or not be true.
->Quote of the Moment :
"Yea. All bitches are whores who love sex." -Cubie
----> PMs checked daily.

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: mtglu]
    #1473512 -

Quote:
Could it be that the psilocybin continues to be produced in aborts, while the mushroom itself stops growing? You could test for this by seeing if the abort is more potent when it is picked at the same time as all the mature fruits, as opposed to picking it right when it has aborted.

Sort of interesting link slightly related to how psilocyin maybe evolved/ it's purpose:

Terence McKenna's "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution


You answered your own question. The mushroom stopped growing.


--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-->The above statements may or not be true.
->Quote of the Moment :
"Yea. All bitches are whores who love sex." -Cubie
----> PMs checked daily.

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: SixCee]
    #1473704 -

"if i take a 6 gram bag of mushrooms, all of similar potency,"

all of what?.. all of the mushrooms?.. so ur saying each individual mushroom has a potency.. well that's what I've been saying all along. You are being too critical of this. I agree I may have not been using the word potency to its exact definition, but neither have you. The true definition is closer to: the quality or state of being potent, the ability or capacity to achieve or bring about a particular result. where potent means: 1 : having or wielding force, authority, or influence : POWERFUL 2 : achieving or bringing about a particular result : EFFECTIVE 3 a : chemically or medicinally effective. I havn't seen anything about it being per unit volume or weight.


"Then why would certain strains have morep otency than others? "

I never said anything about different strains and it's a completely different story. Different strains have more/less psiloc(yb)in content, such as different people have more/less intelligence.

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1473804 -

We need a fucking lab to sort this shit out:

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEeeeee.. help....


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Sniff, Sniff... What's that smell???... ohhhhh.!!
------------------


Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1473817 -

how would you suggest we measure 'potency'?

i measure it as: weight of active constituent divided by standard dosage unit.

potency of mushrooms is expressed as psiloc(yb)in content\weight.

potency of marijuana is expressed as THC content by weight.

LSD blotter potency is expressed at LSD content\single blotter

potency of mescaline-bearing cacti as mescaline content\weight

every expression i have EVER seen of potency has been in these terms. when we speak of the potency of different mushrooms, it is expressed as % psilocybin, which is just psilocybin content\weight. (times 100).

these are two pages from erowid. the first is a comparison of the potency of different mescaline-bearing cacti. the second is a potency comparison of psilocybian mushroom species. note that in both cases, potency is expressed in % active component, which is a (mass active component\total mass) term.

Potency of Cacti
Potency of Mushrooms

i have not once seen potency ever expressed in any other terms. how do you propose that potency be measured, and can you give an example when its actually ever been used?

note that it is not the definition of potency that is in question here. we would both agree that potency refers to the relative strength of mushrooms, cannabis, etc. what is in question here is how we MEASURE potency.

just using total active component content as a measure of potency is flawed. if i've got two piles of mushrooms, each weighing 2 grams and having the same potency, does the potency double when i combine the two piles together?

using psilocybin content per mushroom is a little better, but still flawed. 'one mushroom' is not a standard dosage unit because mushrooms vary greatly in size. this is why very, very rarely do we express mushroom dosages in number of mushrooms eaten, but nearly always in grams.

sure you could express potency in other ways, but when we're talking about drugs and they're relative strength, no other measurement is very appropriate.

i'm not trying to convince you that your way of judging potency is wrong and this way is right, just that this way is better.

i feel a little silly now for going to such lengths to prove a point. i feel as though i am stating the obvious here. i hope this puts it to rest.

Edited by mushmaster (04/19/03 06:47 PM)

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: liftedoff420]
    #1474115 -

Quote:
HAHAHAHAH

yes....its certainly not warding me away


not warding my freinds dog off either! He lost two chocolates that way lol.

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: ]
    #1474126 -

haha stating the obvious indeed. I did not disagree that potency can be measure by weight, or that it is the norm. Most of the time that is how I measure it or talk about it. But I dont always follow the masses and sometimes express it in other terms. I'm fairly sure that I did express what I was regarding potency to be and how I was using it. No where does it say "potency = content/weight"

In most cases I agree that it is better to use the "normal" definition (per weight), especially when speaking of two different species. But since we where talking about the same one and comparing an abort and a mature shroom, I was referring to overall potency.. or better said as content/shroom.

To discontinue confusion, in the future I will refer to potency as content/weight. After all, we are a community of professionals and I would not want to misinform anyone.

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: resin]
    #1474150 -

Here's something one could do:

10 dry grams of mature, veiled fruits
10 dry grams of aborts

Grind them separately.

Perform an extraction on each 10 grams using the same amount of distilled water, boiling time, etc.

Filter and evaporate. Weigh resulting solids from each.

If aborts have, say, three times the PsiHCL, you will see a difference even with very crappy technique.


--------------------
Should the US relegalize drugs?

http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: BigJohnson]
    #1474154 -

is that someone you? have fun getting 10g dry of aborts

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1474177 -

Quote:
is that someone you? have fun getting 10g dry of aborts 


Just like you, I only talk about mushroom growing. I'd never do anything illegal :smile:

I hear you on the aborts. If your technique and equipment were advanced, you wouldn't need more than a gram or two of each to do this. A good balance is a must, though.


--------------------
Should the US relegalize drugs?

http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: BigJohnson]
    #1474718 -

I think that there are too many different variables. I mean when drying you might lose 5% potency on 1 shroom and 25% on another. So when you collected the aborts and mushies then the data might be inconclusive.
Yea and why would some species be more potent than others? Might it be because a different stronger predator eats it??

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: resin]
    #1476592 -

How can one encourge the production of aborts?

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: ministry]
    #1476614 -

I'm pretty sure aborts are caused by lack of oxygen. I believe when oxygen is available during the formation of primordia but then becomes sparse, aborts form. But I'm sure someone here knows more about it than I do :smile:


--------------------
Should the US relegalize drugs?

http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: JunoCycle]
    #1476846 -

.........no... many different species use different things to get high... cats use catnip.... certain monkeys and elephants in Africa it a rotting fruit that cause a euphoric state for them..... (natural)drugs are here for a reason!!

Most theorists agree that mushrooms are hallucinogenic to ward off animals that eat them. This applies for all hallucinogens as numerous studies have been done that show animals avoid psychedelic experiences. The reason hallucinogens are successful at warding off animals is because animals do not rapidly gain a tolerance and evolve for the drug to not be effective. ON the other hand, animals will rapidly adapt to toxins that will kill them - thus making the plants defense system unworkable.

In terms of human involvement, mushrooms have actually made an evolutionary leap in terms that they will never not be around. Because of human interest and farming, mushrooms have found a niche where they dont have to "fight" for survival - this of course is not the case in the wild. However mushrooms will never be extinct because of this change - same goes for farm animals etc - arguably dogs and cats have it best as they have ensured their species survival without the chance of being farmed for food (this only being the case in certain countries)

As to the comments about animals seeking intoxicants - this is true, animals love alcohol (fermented fruit) cocaine, opium, caffiene, etc - But they avoid hallucinogens and delieriants.


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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: ministry]
    #1476944 -

aborts are caused by innsufficient nutrients, water, or air exchange. they are more potent than mature mushrooms, but contain less psilocybin overall. a flush full of aborts will be more potent than a flush of full-sized fruit, but will contain less magic total. aborts are to be prevented, not encouraged.

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: FallenThistle]
    #1477026 -

Quote:
Most theorists agree that mushrooms are hallucinogenic to ward off animals that eat them.  This applies for all hallucinogens as numerous studies have been done that show animals avoid psychedelic experiences.  The reason hallucinogens are successful at warding off animals is because animals do not rapidly gain a tolerance and evolve for the drug to not be effective.  ON the other hand, animals will rapidly adapt to toxins that will kill them - thus making the plants defense system unworkable. 

In terms of human involvement, mushrooms have actually made an evolutionary leap in terms that they will never not be around.  Because of human interest and farming, mushrooms have found a niche where they dont have to "fight" for survival - this of course is not the case in the wild.  However mushrooms will never be extinct because of this change - same goes for farm animals etc - arguably dogs and cats have it best as they have ensured their species survival without the chance of being farmed for food (this only being the case in certain countries)

As to the comments about animals seeking intoxicants - this is true, animals love alcohol (fermented fruit) cocaine, opium, caffiene, etc - But they avoid hallucinogens and delieriants.

   


Good shit :smile:


--------------------
Should the US relegalize drugs?

http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html

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Re: Do aborts have more psilocybin?? [Re: BigJohnson]
    #1477190 -

Quote:
>Could you en-expensively do a test on aborts and mature fruits to see by weight
>which has more psilocybin?

I?d be glad to know.

The only thing that comes to my mind is

1. by consuming it and comparing the efects (rather unreliable)
2. by this: The_Measure_of_the_Mushroom




thank you anno.


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mushroom culture history making ...Mr. Allan is the best .....

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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