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Invisiblemushroomsoup
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Can cakes just die?
    #14698180 - 06/30/11 06:08 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

so I posted here a couple of days ago, about flies, but in the end I just killed them with my hand and they havent been back lol.

but anyway, can cakes just die?

They have been in my fruiting chamber for pretty much 9 days now and not much has happened, initially there was a lil bit of extra white growth but that came to a halt and now they are just...sat there.They don't seem to have progressed or anything at all, they apparently look ridiculous, or so my friend who knows nothing about mushroom cultivation says! He didn't even know what a cake was til I showed him and he started laughing but anyway...

is this normal for them to do this or have they passed away (RIP).

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Invisiblemushroomsoup
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14698314 - 06/30/11 06:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

also - I just read another thread if you fan them to much and over water them you can end up with the 'why won't my bastards fruit' scenario, I think it's POSSIBLE (tho not certain) this is what I have...

is there a way back from here if this is the case? or am I doomed to failure?

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Offlinesage1o1
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14698883 - 06/30/11 08:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

firstly, r u sure you have proper relative humidity? secondly, i would dunk them for 10 mins (maybe even a bit longer) to give 'em a zap of energy.  lastly, sorry if you know this already, but saturation then evaporation off of the mycelium is the biggest pinning trigger.


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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: sage1o1]
    #14699099 - 06/30/11 09:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Did you wait the colonization week?  I have had cakes take over 2 weeks to pin
Evap is the number 1 pinning trigger I would spray the cakes down as you should have been and fan as much as possible and the shrooms will come

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OfflineGarfelt
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: sage1o1]
    #14699113 - 06/30/11 09:45 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

If you're not sure about the humidity I would just fan them 2 - 3 times a day and mist once or twice. Is there some moisture on the sides of the fruiting chamber?

Also, nine days doesn't mean your cakes are dead. I had some take 13 days to begin growing. Did you put them into the fruiting chamber as soon as they were colonized all the way around or did you wait a week before you took them out of the jars?

These questions might help determine what, if anything, is going wrong.


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Invisiblemushroomsoup
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: Garfelt]
    #14699328 - 06/30/11 10:20 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

thanks for the responses :smile:

well I did get frustrated and birthed them around 3 days after they were complete... also the fan I am using is like an electronic room/desk fan - is this too powerful? should I just use a book or something?

and yeah there is water on the inside of the chamber (where I spray with the mister and it hasn't evaporated or evaporates very slowly...)

so should I try dunking them or something for a lil while as suggested? should I roll afterwards? or do nothing and leave them for a while longer?

sorry for all the questions, I'm just worried cus I don't want them to fail :frown:

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14699335 - 06/30/11 10:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Are they soft and squishy and damp to the touch?

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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14699337 - 06/30/11 10:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushroomsoup said:
thanks for the responses :smile:

well I did get frustrated and birthed them around 3 days after they were complete... also the fan I am using is like an electronic room/desk fan - is this too powerful? should I just use a book or something?

and yeah there is water on the inside of the chamber (where I spray with the mister and it hasn't evaporated or evaporates very slowly...)

so should I try dunking them or something for a lil while as suggested? should I roll afterwards? or do nothing and leave them for a while longer?

sorry for all the questions, I'm just worried cus I don't want them to fail :frown:



You didnt roll the cakes?  If not I would suggest a short hour dunk and roll you will still have to wait a few days but you should be fine at that point

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Offlineshroomtastic89
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14699357 - 06/30/11 10:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Patience my friend... You really should just leave them in the jars until you see pins start forming... If you take them out early they will just finish colonizing before they fruit anyways (which is what your cakes are probably doing now). You just need to give them a week or so and see what happens... I'm sure you will be surprised...

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Invisiblemushroomsoup
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: shroomtastic89]
    #14699398 - 06/30/11 10:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

how soft and squidgy should they be? I just gave them a good feel and they are a teeny bit damp and a teeny bit squidgy when I squeezed them..

I did roll them after their initial dunk, its just I read somewhere you shouldn't roll in between flushes and I was wondering whether it would be the same case if I were to dunk mine again... to put some energy in them as sage recommended

lol I am terrible with patience (wrong hobby?) but I am learning..

but one thing I was wondering, do they colonise the whole cake? like right through to the centre?? I was just curious about that...

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14699442 - 06/30/11 10:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

They're too wet.  Fan only for a couple days till the outside is a bit stiffer. 
No squishy.  Squishy IME is too wet for cakes.
They colonize the cake entirely because it seeks out all available food.  Simply put at least.

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Offlinesage1o1
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14699471 - 06/30/11 10:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

agreed. they're wet. leave 'em undunked. sorry for the misdirection, i was operating under a few misconceptions.


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OfflineGarfelt
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14699524 - 06/30/11 10:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I wouldn't dunk them again. After you dunk them once they should have as much water content as you can get. Dunking them again may be counter-productive.

From what you describe it sounds like your humidity is fine. I would just take a book or some flat object and fan as often as you can. You will still see moisture on the sides of the chamber, but you shouldn't see any moisture sitting on the cakes for very long. If the water is evaporating off the cakes you are probably doing a good job fanning.

I think you're fine. Birthing early makes it seem like the cakes are taking forever, but it is most likely fine. Give it about a week and just keep doing your best. I bet you will see -something- very soon.


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Invisiblemushroomsoup
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: sage1o1]
    #14699528 - 06/30/11 10:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

ahh thanks for the advice!! I will try just fanning for a few days... say 3-4 days? its okay to use an electronic room fan?

I was worried it could be bad for them if theres a shit load of wind blowing at them or maybe im just worrying too much..

*edit* just saw the above post - I will just use a boook! - I *think* the moisture on the sides normally evaporates off eventually but not too sure never really paid it too much attention.. I figured as I was misting every few hours it was fine but is there usually loads of condensation, even when not misting? cus if there is I may not be wet enough.

I hope you are right about seeing something soon! This is so stressing me out, I thought it would be as easy as pie once they were out the jars, guess not!

Edited by mushroomsoup (06/30/11 11:02 PM)

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14699572 - 06/30/11 11:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You worry too much :grin:
A fan is a fan.  Take off the lid, move the air around a while, replace.
How you do it doesn't matter. 
Neither does having a fan running in the room all the time.
This is a sgfc, not a mono :crazy:
The condensation will not form because condensation is only due to *temperature differences in the inside and outside of the walls*.  You can mist the sides, its fine, but expect it to evaporate quick. 
Do not use condensation to judge rh. 
Chill.
The sgfc works on its own.

Edited by ISOfantastic (06/30/11 11:09 PM)

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14699598 - 06/30/11 11:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushroomsoup said:
This is so stressing me out, I thought it would be as easy as pie once they were out the jars, guess not!



It is, it just takes forever to know it worked right :smile:
Fan only till the cakes feel stiffer, then mist.  A day or two most.  You don't need to add extra to everything, trust me :smile:

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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14699609 - 06/30/11 11:14 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Actually with a SGFC it does matter if you have a fan running in the room. You don't want to keep a fan in the same room as a SGFC. If you use it for a few mins to fan thats fine but having it running all the time in the same room as the SGFC will only dry everything out. Not so much because of the air constantly moving but because it changes the natural air flow of the room. Ever heard hot air rises and cool air sinks? This is the point of the perlite in the bottom of the SGFC is not only humidifies the air but cools it slightly thus causing more air to be "sucked" up from below the tub and through the perlite and out the top, which is what you want.

When you mist you should be more worried about misting the perlite under your cakes as well as the cakes themselves and not the walls. The perlite is what will help you raise your rh in the SGFC...

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: shroomtastic89]
    #14699622 - 06/30/11 11:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, don't point it at it, but I've never had a problem running a fan in the same room.
I've done sgfc right by monos (which do need circulation) and had great results.

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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14699636 - 06/30/11 11:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Point being there is no need for a fan with a SGFC. It will not help anything. You get more than enough FAE with just the holes in the SGFC. Why dry the perlite out faster than it already does?

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: shroomtastic89]
    #14699812 - 07/01/11 12:14 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shroomtastic89 said:
Point being there is no need for a fan with a SGFC. It will not help anything. You get more than enough FAE with just the holes in the SGFC. Why dry the perlite out faster than it already does?




:whathesaid:

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Invisiblemushroomsoup
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14701646 - 07/01/11 12:34 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

lol you guys are awesome! so I usually have a fan running in this room as it gets pretty stuffy otherwise, but decided to stop that. How about having a window open? seems like its pretty much the same thing, really.

does it matter that much?

I mean I love my (non existent) mushrooms but I dunno whether I can do much about a window or fan unless its really important...

also, one last thing, how much verm should there be on ur cakes after a dunk and roll, is it possible to have too much? or will the shrooms grow on regardless? You are right, I am a worrier :crazy:

thanks in advance :smile:.

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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14701658 - 07/01/11 12:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You will be fine with the fan in your room there dont worry about the verm either just have some  patience and you will have some goodies

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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14701694 - 07/01/11 12:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

UnnamedGrower said:
You will be fine with the fan in your room there dont worry about the verm either just have some  patience and you will have some goodies



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OfflineGarfelt
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14701743 - 07/01/11 12:59 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

post pictures when you get some growth :wink:


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Invisiblemushroomsoup
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: Garfelt]
    #14702086 - 07/01/11 02:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

^ made me smile :laugh: I will be sure to - I can't wait!!  :smile:

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Invisiblemushroomsoup
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14705146 - 07/02/11 02:12 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

YES YES YES saw 4 pins on one cake this morning when the lights came on!! YAY

none on the other cakes tho, will they come?? should I still refrain from misting til I get pins on all the cakes?? and will there be more pins come on this one cake that has 4 growing??

also, now I have pins on that one cake should I start misting it or what??

im just so damn excited!!! YAAAAY

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14705430 - 07/02/11 05:07 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ISOfantastic said:
Fan only for a couple days till the outside is a bit stiffer. 




This isn't exact science.  It's a living creature.  Relax :thumbup:

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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14705518 - 07/02/11 06:14 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushroomsoup said:
YES YES YES saw 4 pins on one cake this morning when the lights came on!! YAY

none on the other cakes tho, will they come?? should I still refrain from misting til I get pins on all the cakes?? and will there be more pins come on this one cake that has 4 growing??

also, now I have pins on that one cake should I start misting it or what??

im just so damn excited!!! YAAAAY



You are suppose to mist cakes until pins form then you stop misting the cakes.  This post makes me think that you think you are suppose to mist the pins?  This causes aborts.  You mist your cakes until you see pins the evaporation of your substrate is your number 1 pinning trigger

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14705676 - 07/02/11 07:26 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

UnnamedGrower said:
You are suppose to mist cakes until pins form then you stop misting the cakes.  This post makes me think that you think you are suppose to mist the pins?  This causes aborts.  You mist your cakes until you see pins the evaporation of your substrate is your number 1 pinning trigger




I respect your post count, so I must ask, I've never heard to stop misting when pins form.  Explain please?

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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14705726 - 07/02/11 07:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ISOfantastic said:
Quote:

UnnamedGrower said:
You are suppose to mist cakes until pins form then you stop misting the cakes.  This post makes me think that you think you are suppose to mist the pins?  This causes aborts.  You mist your cakes until you see pins the evaporation of your substrate is your number 1 pinning trigger




I respect your post count, so I must ask, I've never heard to stop misting when pins form.  Explain please?



Water on pins causes aborts
Quote:

ISOfantastic said:
Quote:

UnnamedGrower said:
You are suppose to mist cakes until pins form then you stop misting the cakes.  This post makes me think that you think you are suppose to mist the pins?  This causes aborts.  You mist your cakes until you see pins the evaporation of your substrate is your number 1 pinning trigger




I respect your post count, so I must ask, I've never heard to stop misting when pins form.  Explain please?




There is so much conflicting info on this site its unreal.  I found two posts from RR.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4133913/vc/1#4133913
and then
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5622076/vc/1#5622076

:justdontknow:
And this is the problem with shroomery.  I love this place like my own child but its hard to get the right info

I, like many ppl on this site believe that misting causes aborts

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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14705865 - 07/02/11 08:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I have never had any aborts from misting, but maybe I just got lucky...


Quote:

The condensation will not form because condensation is only due to *temperature differences in the inside and outside of the walls*.  You can mist the sides, its fine, but expect it to evaporate quick.





WHAT!? You mean High Temp + Low Temp = Water?? This is incredible. I bet scientists would be interested to know we can now create our own water!


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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: Garfelt]
    #14705884 - 07/02/11 08:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i mist from birth to harvest.

so does most other people around here.

water does not cause pins to abort.

in fact. you can dunk pins COMPLETELY under water for ~4-10 hours and they will continue to fruit just fine


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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: k00laid]
    #14706230 - 07/02/11 11:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
i mist from birth to harvest.

so does most other people around here.

water does not cause pins to abort.

in fact. you can dunk pins COMPLETELY under water for ~4-10 hours and they will continue to fruit just fine




:whathesaid:

They tend to abort if you DON'T fan after you mist and allow the water to sit on the pins for an extended amount of time.

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Invisiblemushroomsoup
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: shroomtastic89]
    #14707283 - 07/02/11 04:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So I guess I am gunna mist em in the morning 

* I still only have pins on one cake damnit :frown:*

but just give em a real good fan afterwards :smile:

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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14707296 - 07/02/11 04:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Getting pins can be frustrating. I just throw escalating numbers at it. The more cakes (or whatever) the more chances for pins.  It's guttural but it works.


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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length--and there I travel looking, looking breathlessly." -Carlos Castenda  (Don Juan: the Sorcerer)

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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: sage1o1]
    #14709008 - 07/02/11 11:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

oh, so some cakes just never grow pins regardless? :frown:

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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14710034 - 07/03/11 07:13 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It's possible, but given the proper conditions, it shouldn't be likely.


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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length--and there I travel looking, looking breathlessly." -Carlos Castenda  (Don Juan: the Sorcerer)

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OfflineNolaNomad
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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: mushroomsoup]
    #14710174 - 07/03/11 08:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

My first recommendation is to read a book. For everyone. If you don't understand what's going on, read more. That being said, fungus is pretty hard to 'kill'. Unless you really screwed up, there's not much to worry about. Yes, mist and fan throughout the process. You have to constantly replace evaporated moisture. But, before anything else, go get a book. Preferably Stamets. This is first chapter crap.


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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: NolaNomad]
    #14724359 - 07/06/11 06:24 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

How are things coming? what did you end up doing with the fan situation?

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Re: Can cakes just die? [Re: shroomtastic89]
    #14733884 - 07/07/11 10:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

hey :smile: pretty good thankyou! I've started harvesting em! :laugh: There is pretty much a fan on constantly in the room and it doesnt seem to have effected them at all. The cake where I picked all the shrooms gave me just over 30 grams... and then I dunked it and put it back in the chamber, hoping for more! :laugh:

I tried a small amount the other day just to see how potent they were, they are gunna be a fantastic addition to summer fun! :laugh:

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