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OfflineAnarchyAndPeace
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soil okay to roll in instead of verm?
    #14694304 - 06/29/11 09:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

hey guys. Went to walmart to find verm (my cakes are dunking right now) and they didn't have any so I picked up potting soil instead, as I thought I remembered reading this can be a sub for the roll. Is this okay? Should I roll cakes in the potting soil after the dunk? Or am I misinformed?

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InvisibleLegend
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: AnarchyAndPeace]
    #14694316 - 06/29/11 09:49 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Do you not have a garden center anywhere near you? i got a big bag of vermiculite and perlite for 3$ each today at the garden center near me. Home depot, and wallmart never have shit for gardening supplies.


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OfflineAnarchyAndPeace
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: Legend]
    #14694323 - 06/29/11 09:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

well is potting soil okay?

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InvisibleLegend
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: AnarchyAndPeace]
    #14694350 - 06/29/11 09:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

no.


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InvisibleHorizonSpawn
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: AnarchyAndPeace]
    #14694351 - 06/29/11 09:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You used up all your verm when making your cakes???...  I'm confused :uhoh:


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Offlineoverstand
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: AnarchyAndPeace]
    #14694357 - 06/29/11 09:59 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Potting soil is organic and contains contaminants. Vermiculite is non-organic and holds moisture better. I think potting soil is a bad idea. Look for vermiculite at home depot, Lowe's, garden stores nurseries.


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Offlinedrwatson
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: overstand]
    #14694372 - 06/29/11 10:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

No.  Soil is not ok.

VERM: It's with potted plant stuff. ALWAYS.  right next to the perlite.  usually only nurseries carry the bigger, giant, bags (at least where I am) but Lowes, Homedepot, (sometimes walmart) all have small bags of both, somewhere next to the miracle grow blood meal and bone meal.

Edited by drwatson (06/29/11 10:03 PM)

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Offlinethe astronaut
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: drwatson]
    #14694442 - 06/29/11 10:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Man try ace hardware, its the only place in my area where I can find

the stuff, right next to perlight. Im gonna go out on a limb here and

say u could use it instead of verm so long as u leach(leach it cause

its full of fertilizers) and sterilize it (cause its full of contams).



This is a pic of a small piece of pf cake that was contaminated so I cut it off(mutilated the cake) and buried it in the pot with the plant. The soil was far from sterile and the fc was the leaves for humidity. But it worked just fine so in my opinion it should work fine but if I could not find verm I wouldnt roll it at all.

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Offlineoccollegeboi
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
    #14694497 - 06/29/11 10:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Did you NOT read the tek or something?? I mean, yes, I made a few implementations, but I used all the correct ingredients and materials. FOLLOW THE TEK.

I don't even know how soil would be the least bit comparable to vermiculite. Soil is used for PLANTS, mushrooms are not plants, they're fungi.

Do you have everything else you need or do you still need to buy perlite and a shot gun fruiting chamber?

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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
    #14694502 - 06/29/11 10:32 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

the astronaut said:


This is a pic of a small piece of pf cake that was contaminated so I cut it off(mutilated the cake) and buried it in the pot with the plant. The soil was far from sterile and the fc was the leaves for humidity. But it worked just fine so in my opinion it should work fine but if I could not find verm I wouldnt roll it at all.




This worked because it was not in a fruiting chamber where FAE is limited. Putting the contaminate in that much FAE inhibited it's growth giving the mycelium better chances of fighting it; also, since it was a small piece of already established mycelium  it doesn't have to really fight off the other beasties lurking in the soil before having the option to fruit - this wouldn't happen in a fruiting chamber with a cake rolled in soil that doesn't have nearly the levels of FAE.  The cake would contaminate.

:2cents:

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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: drwatson]
    #14694542 - 06/29/11 10:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

This worked because it was not in a fruiting chamber where FAE is limited. Putting the contaminate in that much FAE inhibited it's growth giving the mycelium better chances of fighting it; also, since it was a small piece of already established mycelium  it doesn't have to really fight off the other beasties lurking in the soil before having the option to fruit - this wouldn't happen in a fruiting chamber with a cake rolled in soil that doesn't have nearly the levels of FAE.  The cake would contaminate




Who cares man just let him try. I wanna try this now cause I hate being told no. LOL Oh yea and their wasnt much fae 1 inch below the soil surface and the pile of leaves u see covered the surface of that spot so fae wasnt a factor at all.  :rockon:

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InvisibleLegend
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: drwatson]
    #14694556 - 06/29/11 10:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

drwatson said:
Quote:

the astronaut said:


This is a pic of a small piece of pf cake that was contaminated so I cut it off(mutilated the cake) and buried it in the pot with the plant. The soil was far from sterile and the fc was the leaves for humidity. But it worked just fine so in my opinion it should work fine but if I could not find verm I wouldnt roll it at all.




This worked because it was not in a fruiting chamber where FAE is limited. Putting the contaminate in that much FAE inhibited it's growth giving the mycelium better chances of fighting it; also, since it was a small piece of already established mycelium  it doesn't have to really fight off the other beasties lurking in the soil before having the option to fruit - this wouldn't happen in a fruiting chamber with a cake rolled in soil that doesn't have nearly the levels of FAE.  The cake would contaminate.

:2cents:




so if i got a contam i could crumble and put outside? If they grew mushrooms, would they be safe to eat?


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OfflineAnarchyAndPeace
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: Legend]
    #14694611 - 06/29/11 11:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

thanks everyone :laugh:. And to thoses kinda bein asses about it, misread info, thanks for correcting me :smile:. No roll then, lets see how my first flush goes. Wish me luck all!

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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: AnarchyAndPeace]
    #14694613 - 06/29/11 11:01 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Good luck! :sun:


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OfflineWing
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: Legend]
    #14694618 - 06/29/11 11:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

:fonz: good luck


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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: Wing]
    #14694646 - 06/29/11 11:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

so if i got a contam i could crumble and put outside? If they grew mushrooms, would they be safe to eat?


  Correct, and u dont even have to crumble them just throw it in a hole and cover with half inch soil. And yes the fruits are safe to eat, try it if u dont believe me. Peace

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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
    #14695551 - 06/30/11 03:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

There is little to gain with such practice as the mycelia will not grow in a vegetative state, post jar so to speak. I once tried to slice up cakes just for fun and covered them with verm, thus re-enacting your experiment, only with verm instead of soil. It worked just fine, however I got the same shitty small results, so there is no gaining in doing what you just did, its just a fun thing thats all.

EDIT: I am at peace with the universe, look at my pics and enjoy.

There is currently no argument over this fact; but marking experiments with a clear sign that reads "EXPERIMENT", is always good. I do it, try to do it all the time.

ohh, heres the result:)



:mushroom2:

Edited by kdmmontana (07/01/11 05:37 PM)

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OfflineAnarchyAndPeace
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14695824 - 06/30/11 06:55 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

thanks :smile: ^ trust me, not angry, I love you guys, you're about to bring me my first trip :laugh: if I can get my humidity up :/

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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: AnarchyAndPeace]
    #14696220 - 06/30/11 10:00 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Lowes carries Verm if you have one close. It's kept outside with the additives in the garden center. I could not find it at Home Depot.

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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: DeepSpace9]
    #14698037 - 06/30/11 05:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

There is little to gain with such practice as the mycelia will not grow in a vegetative state, post jar so to speak. I once tried to slice up cakes just for fun and covered them with verm, thus re-enacting your experiment, only with verm instead of soil. It worked just fine, however I got the same shitty small results, so there is no gaining in doing what you just did, its just a fun thing thats all.



When u roll a wet cake in dry verm ur kinda making a mini

casing layer and soil is a great casing since its what mother nature

uses right? When a cake is fully colonized it is very contam

resistant, its usually the bulk grows that are easily contaminated.

And that pic is not at all a re-enacting my experiment (u used verm

and I used soil). That pot is huge and I put all kinds of stuff in

there to decompose (leaves from bonsai tree, pieces of rotten

vegetables, receipts from the gas station, sticks from bonsai tree,

card board pieces) and I have been puting all that trash in there for

over 1 year now to enrich the soil so its plum full of contamination

both bacteria and molds. Im not out to get u man just saying it would

work, I dont even think ud have to sterilize the soil just do it to be

safe. Mushrooms grow in the wild without any sterile conditions  or

somone cooking, misting, faning, light bulbs or all that other shit

and they grow just fine and happy as hell. Oh and dont worry about the

reading cause thats been done years ago and I do have a side as I

posted it and mind ur ratings as well.  LOL right,  peace man. And by

the way most of us dont grow for distribution just for fun.

Edited by the astronaut (06/30/11 10:25 PM)

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
    #14700303 - 07/01/11 03:32 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I never hugged that itchy bear:mad:

Edited by kdmmontana (07/07/11 05:47 PM)

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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14700551 - 07/01/11 06:40 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I just did provide evidense so calm down.

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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
    #14700621 - 07/01/11 07:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm pretty curious about this myself...Jiffy Mix, which is a potting soil substitute, is used as casing for bulk quite a bit...potting soil can't be *that* different.

Try it on one cake and get back to us! Potting soil out of the bag should be sanitized at least (since plants aren't happy in a bacteria filled substrate either), and should have a decent water-holding capacity without providing too many nutrients  :shrug:

-jon


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Terry M said:
Looking for rules that other people use successfully. Sterile procedure is just a set of rules that work.

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14700816 - 07/01/11 08:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Quote:

the astronaut said:
Quote:

There is little to gain with such practice as the mycelia will not grow in a vegetative state, post jar so to speak. I once tried to slice up cakes just for fun and covered them with verm, thus re-enacting your experiment, only with verm instead of soil. It worked just fine, however I got the same shitty small results, so there is no gaining in doing what you just did, its just a fun thing thats all.



When u roll a wet cake in dry verm ur kinda making a mini

casing layer and soil is a great casing since its what mother nature

uses right? When a cake is fully colonized it is very contam

resistant, its usually the bulk grows that are easily contaminated.

And that pic is not at all a re-enacting my experiment (u used verm

and I used soil). That pot is huge and I put all kinds of stuff in

there to decompose (leaves from bonsai tree, pieces of rotten

vegetables, receipts from the gas station, sticks from bonsai tree,

card board pieces) and I have been puting all that trash in there for

over 1 year now to enrich the soil so its plum full of contamination

both bacteria and molds. Im not out to get u man just saying it would

work, I dont even think ud have to sterilize the soil just do it to be

safe. Mushrooms grow in the wild without any sterile conditions  or

somone cooking, misting, faning, light bulbs or all that other shit

and they grow just fine and happy as hell. Oh and dont worry about the

reading cause thats been done years ago and I do have a side as I

posted it and mind ur ratings as well.  LOL right,  peace man. And by

the way most of us dont grow for distribution just for fun.




I believe you when I see pictures of your dirt casing layers, that much I will say. I dont mean to put you down because of your experimenting, but I find it frivolous to just believe that you can substitute Verm for Soil but If we are given evidence I guess we can reconsider.

And dont fucking talk down to me like you and 30 others are sitting there smirking you insepid ****, you are the one who sits here and brags about soil and whatnot so YOU supply the evidence of your work.





Chill out bro

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OfflineWing
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14700929 - 07/01/11 09:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Do whatever you want. You'll eventually find something that works the best. Soil isn't it, but sometimes it takes trial and error to find what works the best. [/thread]


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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: Wing]
    #14700937 - 07/01/11 09:33 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

the astronaut said:
I just did provide evidense so calm down.




Burying a contaminated cake in a potted plant OUTSIDE of a FC IS NOT the same thing as rolling a cake in Soil and putting it in a FC.  Completely different environment.  :rolleyes:

OP, if you are using a FC and you don't feel like risking your project to experimentation, than I'd suggest rolling in Wet Perlite if you can't get more verm.

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: drwatson]
    #14702542 - 07/01/11 03:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Okay, let me get this straight:

First off DrWatson, I misread you a bit; now I see you were agains this practice. I am on your side. :heart:

And now onto everybody else...and I am one of those!:mushroom2:
and this also concerns the astronaut of course..:grin:

This has to be the most moronic argument that I have read (and I have started some pretty dumb shit in the past) Potting soil contains..a whole lot, a lot of which should not be inside your FC at all. That aside, if there is ANY ADVANTAGE using soil, which I hardly believe then I would like to see evidence of that. We can have a competition, one half of the gang uses regular Verm, the other side uses soil and then we will see the results of that competition.

What we have so far seen evidence of it that mushrooms fruit and in this case they did so buried in soil, what I do not understand or accept is the fact that using soil is seen as some magical invention just because astronaut here managed to grow 4 mini mushrooms in a pot of soil. I gave him the picture, posted above in this thread; but for arguments sake here it is again:



I explained: I have done what you have done, its not hard. I used Verm instead. It worked. 4 healthy little mushrooms, same as astronauts, came up. Wow. Was it cool, yes. Was it fun, yes. Does it prove a point? No.

You are obviously thinking that there is some sort of ADVANTAGE with using soil, because there is no sane reason other than that to actually use it. If there is an ADVANTAGE (meaning you get fatter/healthier/better) then this makes sense and I am just a nobody posting a unique picture sort of describing the exact same experiment which astronaut just conducted. God I feel awfully stupid.

No, so far we have seen evidence of that mushrooms fruit, that some people are amazed over this fact and that most of us obviously are ignorant fools. Thats all. The second I see evidence of the following I can continue to (not) support this (so far) crap.

1: That Soil is somehow better to use than Verm
2. That Soil can be used at all, without terrible results
3. That Soil somehow improves, makes the cakes feel better, make larger fruits, whatever...
4. Scientific and forum supported practical Teks, written and greenlighted by people far above in the skies...

Astronaut; do this: TRY IT THEN! Then take pictures and show us all.

Shroomy John; I am wiping my forehead as we speak:) I am not angry, Calm thoughts...calm thoughts....

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Offlinethe astronaut
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14702718 - 07/01/11 04:34 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

seriously man just calm down, Im not stating at all that soil is gonna make better fruits I just think it would work. And since this got so heated for no reason I will do this.       
Quote:

This is a pic of a small piece of pf cake that was contaminated so I cut it off(mutilated the cake) and buried it in the pot with the plant. The soil was far from sterile and the fc was the leaves for humidity. But it worked just fine so in my opinion it should work fine but if I could not find verm I wouldnt roll it at all.



Please read my first post more carefully before getting so worked up.
*And as I said u didnt do at all what I did, please read the posts more carefully man Im really not out to get u.

Edited by the astronaut (07/01/11 04:39 PM)

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
    #14702881 - 07/01/11 05:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

What I have seen so far is nothing short of disaster and when you are told you act up.

*slap on the wrist with a stick as thick as Barak Obamas finger...and theyre mighty thick"


Edited by kdmmontana (07/07/11 05:52 PM)

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: AnarchyAndPeace]
    #14702944 - 07/01/11 05:20 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I like rolling in potting soil when I want to expose my cakes to loads of extra trichoderma spores right after birthing.
Also, if you moisten the soil after the roll, it provides a great microclimate to germinate all those spores!

Edited by ISOfantastic (07/01/11 05:28 PM)

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: ISOfantastic] * 1
    #14703013 - 07/01/11 05:34 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

EDIT

Reason: Obviously cakes are not enough, so buckets were used...:ooo:

Edited by kdmmontana (07/02/11 10:16 AM)

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14703082 - 07/01/11 05:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I was addressing the OPs original question.
You crazy kids can squabble all you like, doesn't change the heavy presence of trichoderma spores in most potting soils :P

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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: ISOfantastic]
    #14703135 - 07/01/11 05:53 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I fully agree with you ISO.

Hey I am not crazy or a kid...what manners:P:tongue:
:heart:love to ya all!

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OfflineAnarchyAndPeace
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14703387 - 07/01/11 06:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I swear I wont do it XP I misread another thread! lol

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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: AnarchyAndPeace]
    #14703647 - 07/01/11 07:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Im still gonna do it LOL, and Ill post the results right here.

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OfflineAnarchyAndPeace
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Registered: 06/22/11
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
    #14703661 - 07/01/11 07:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

sweet lol

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Invisiblebonnahoo
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: AnarchyAndPeace]
    #14703844 - 07/01/11 08:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

AWwww I read this whole thread and really have no advice for ya, maybe sterilized/pasteurized compost if someone wants to fuck around with something thats not verm :IDK: ....but I did really want to share my love too! so here ya go :wink: <3 <3 <3 :drlove:  :forbiddenlove:

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Offlinethe astronaut
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: bonnahoo]
    #14704343 - 07/01/11 10:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ok so here is a pic of an experiment that went both right and wrong. I had a jar that had a bacterial infection so I used an old dicloxocilon pill I had and mixed it with some water and used it with the crumbled cake. Unfortunately the antibiotic ruined the fruiting ability of the myc but rid it of the bacteria. After several weeks of no fruit I added an additional layer of verm as a casing and put wax paper on to to have huge humidity in the casing with no luck. I gave it plenty of light fresh air and enough water to keep it moist still no luck, so I took the cake out of the fc and put it in a slightly larger one and cased with potting soil hoping the microbiological activity would some how help get the job done, didnt work but here is a pic of the sub,,

As u see the myc is healthy with no signs of contam very strong mushroom smell but still after 2 weeks no mushrooms or pins or any thing other than myc. So just to prove its healthy I cut a piece out cause its gonna go in the trash or plant pot anyway so here it is,,,

As u see no trich or bacteria and I didnt even sterilize the soil. Not trying to be a smart ass just passing on some info, so their it is and hope it helped.

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OfflineISOfantastic
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Registered: 06/23/11
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
    #14705060 - 07/02/11 01:23 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So you added an antibiotic pill...ruined your myc...and you're saying it's good cause there's no bacterial infection?

I doubt dicloxacillin's percieved "effect" on the soil.  You seriously believe that?
If anything, it renders it the soil toxic to the weaker organisms dwelling in it.
Or it was such a small amount compared to the sub that it was merely a nuisance to the colonizing, unhealthy mycelium.
:awewtf:

I'm satisfied when I fruit with no bacterial infections.
When I get them, I toss the cake or jar or bag and call it a loss.
Interesting experiment tho.

Edited by ISOfantastic (07/02/11 07:10 AM)

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
    #14705587 - 07/02/11 06:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

There is no evidence that your end result was or is free of bacteria at all.

Astronaut, please listen to what I have to say: Do not do this any more. The way you are conducting your so called experiment is DANGEROUS. Those growing blotches of bacteria are DANGEROUS and they may spread. You do not know what family or type of bacteria it is, it could be anything from harmless to close to lethal.

I am just concerned about you, do not do this again. Rather follow the PF TEK and make some proper jars, but do not ever start growing mushroom spores in buckets of soil. Do not ever handle bacterial contamination like you did, holding it with your hands! Do not touch that stuff, ever. :shocked: There is a reason doctors and patholgists and such people carry facemasks and rubber gloves...

I wish you luck in the future, but try to understand that this is not the way to go down at all:crazy:

I hope you are healthy and well, stop doing what you just did. Its dangerous.

Love from KD:heart:

Edited by kdmmontana (07/02/11 10:14 AM)

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Offlinethe astronaut
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14722417 - 07/05/11 08:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I appreciate ur concern but I have no plans to consume any of those fruits that I have posted, I just did it out of curiousity.

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InvisibleJavadog
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
    #14722518 - 07/05/11 08:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Not to throw more fuel on the fire, but to the question of

When would someone want to case with soil?

My answer is that there are species of mushroom producing
fungi that require a microbially active casing soil to fruit.

ie. Stropharia.  Coprinus.  There are others.

So, I might well roll a BRF cake in soil.

I would like to give it a low-heat pasteurization pass though.

...all in the name of science.  ;0)

JD


--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes

Myco-tek.org

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: the astronaut]
    #14724206 - 07/06/11 05:05 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Dont use buckets again for anything.

Edited by kdmmontana (07/07/11 05:54 PM)

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InvisibleJavadog
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: kdmmontana]
    #14727884 - 07/06/11 07:30 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Whatcha talkin bout Willis‏?

A pasteurized casing soil of 50/50 peat+verm will just
not work with some species of mushroom.

Take care,

JD


--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes

Myco-tek.org

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: soil okay to roll in instead of verm? [Re: Javadog]
    #14732486 - 07/07/11 05:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:
Whatcha talkin bout Willis‏?

A pasteurized casing soil of 50/50 peat+verm will just
not work with some species of mushroom.

Take care,

JD




I already PMd you but Ill write it here as I am DONE with the astronaut and his experiments.

We are not discussing casing layers (we were talking about PF cakes, or at least thats what I believed) when this came up and we all had a big laugh when we saw the bucket.

You would be pleased to wipe your post or throw Windex on your computer screen or something. Even being here is embarrasing for me.
Not because of you of course.

See you at Myco Tek!

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