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OfflineAngry Mycologist
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5,000 years of human history lost...
    #1469029 - 04/18/03 01:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

U.S. Culture Advisers Resign Over Iraq Museum Looting
Thu Apr 17, 6:55 PM ET

By Niala Boodhoo


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two cultural advisers to the Bush administration have resigned in protest over the failure of U.S. forces to prevent the wholesale looting of priceless treasures from Baghdad's antiquities museum.


Martin Sullivan, who chaired the President's Advisory Committee on Cultural Property for eight years, and panel member Gary Vikan said they resigned because the U.S. military had had advance warning of the danger to Iraq (news - web sites)'s historical treasures.


"We certainly know the value of oil but we certainly don't know the value of historical artifacts," Vikan, director of the Walters Art Gallery in Baltimore, told Reuters on Thursday.


At the start of the U.S.-led campaign against Iraq, military forces quickly secured valuable oil fields.


Baghdad's museums, galleries and libraries are empty shells, destroyed in a wave of looting that erupted as U.S.-led forces ended Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s rule last week, although antiquities experts have said they were given assurances months ago from U.S. military planners that Iraq's historic artifacts and sites would be protected by occupying forces.


"It didn't have to happen," Sullivan told Reuters. "In a pre-emptive war that's the kind of thing you should have planned for." Sullivan sent his letter of resignation earlier this week.


The Iraqi National Museum held rare artifacts documenting the development of mankind in ancient Mesopotamia, one of the world's earliest civilizations. Among the museum collection were more than 80,000 cuneiform tablets, some of which had yet to be translated.


Professional art thieves may have been behind some of the looting, said leading archeologists gathered in Paris on Thursday to seek ways to rescue Iraq's cultural heritage.


Among the priceless treasures missing are the 5,000-year-old Vase of Uruk and the Harp of Ur. The bronze Statue of Basitki from the Akkadian kingdom is also gone, somehow hauled out of the museum despite its huge weight.


The White House repeated on Thursday that the looting was unfortunate but the U.S. military had worked hard to preserve the infrastructure of Iraq.


"It is unfortunate that there was looting and damage done to the museum and we have offered rewards, as Secretary Rumsfeld has said, for individuals who may have taken items from the museum to bring those back," White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said in Crawford, Texas, where President Bush (news - web sites) is spending a long Easter break.


FBI (news - web sites) Director Robert Mueller added that the bureau was sending agents to Iraq to assist with criminal investigations and had issued Interpol alerts to all member nations regarding the potential sale of stolen artifacts.


"We recognize the importance of these treasures to the Iraqi people and as well to the world as a whole," Mueller said. "And we are firmly committed to doing whatever we can in order to secure the return of these treasures to the people of Iraq."


The president appoints the 11-member advisory committee, which works through the State Department to advise the executive office on the 1970 UNESCO (news - web sites) Convention on international protection of cultural objects.




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The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


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OnlineEllis Dee
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1469039 - 04/18/03 02:00 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

LOL LOL LOL

I can just picture some farmer hitching his camels to that tremendously heavy statue and dragging it home. LMAO.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineAngry Mycologist
Spontaneouslycombusting

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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1469063 - 04/18/03 02:12 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Haha  :grin:  .....that was the only part of the article I found funny.  How the hell do you steal something like that?  Must be Carmen Sandiego. 


--------------------
The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


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OfflineGringoLoco
I spit in theface of peoplewho ain't cool.
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1469264 - 04/18/03 03:56 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

(ANGRY ANTIWARMONGER) SEE THIS IS WHY WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER GONE! WE KILLED HISTORY!


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: GringoLoco]
    #1469475 - 04/18/03 06:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

WAHHHH...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinefriartuck
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1469591 - 04/18/03 09:21 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Inny, pipe down...Bill O'Reilly's trying to talk


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: friartuck]
    #1469596 - 04/18/03 09:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

WTF?

Think before you speak, it'll get you far in life.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinegrib
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1469670 - 04/18/03 10:05 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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Offlinefriartuck
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: grib]
    #1470265 - 04/18/03 02:00 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Hey, Inny...where'd ya go?


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OfflineAngry Mycologist
Spontaneouslycombusting

Registered: 11/24/02
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: GringoLoco]
    #1471372 - 04/18/03 09:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

(ANGRY ANTIWARMONGER) SEE THIS IS WHY WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER GONE! WE KILLED HISTORY!



A wealth of knowledge was destroyed, I thought that just maybe some of you would feel "bad" about that. Oh well, it's worth a try, right?


--------------------
The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


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OfflineGringoLoco
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1471383 - 04/18/03 09:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

That was a sarcastic self parody, in case nobody could tell


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Registered: 09/11/01
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Loc: BC Canada
Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1471626 - 04/18/03 10:58 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe having that sort of history around (ex.the old museum) would interfere with the new, revised version of history that is to be written soon, by the winners of course. Best it be gone, than confuse the people.


That's more sarcasm.



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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

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OfflineJohnnyRespect
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Registered: 04/17/03
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1471684 - 04/18/03 11:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

As a fan of history, and a previous visitor to Iraq, I can say that about as many westerners will see those artifacts now as they did before the war :smile:  And who cares, we've got TV now! :smile:


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1471709 - 04/18/03 11:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Culture is collective memory. Memory sees through the claims of power. Ergo, the Bush administration is opposed to genuine culture, whether it be Iraqi or American. They would like all of their subjects, Americans and Iraqis both, to live in an eternal present, with no memory of what happened yesterday, last week, during World War II, five thousand years ago, and especially, what happened when the US Constitution and Bill of Rights were ratified.

What's more, Bush HAS no culture as far as I can tell, so he's doubtlessly hostile towards those who do.


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OfflineGringoLoco
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1471749 - 04/18/03 11:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Thats not true, Bush is a Texan!


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Offlinewingnutx
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: grib]
    #1472392 - 04/19/03 03:21 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

One tank wouldn't have stopped shit. You control a mob with troops, not a single piece of armor. What would they do, blast the crowd with HE rounds? That would do a lot of good.


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OnlineEllis Dee
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: wingnutx]
    #1472427 - 04/19/03 03:38 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

>>>One tank wouldn't have stopped shit. You control a mob with troops, not a single piece of armor. What would they do, blast the crowd with HE rounds? That would do a lot of good.

In New York City during crowded events the NYPD will send officers in the crowd mounted on horses. It's a big intimidation factor and the NYPD equated a single horse mounted officer to be like having 8-10 regular beat cops in the same area. This pales in comparison to the efect a tank would have!

Armoured cavaly is the most effective for controlling crowds and looters as described in the article. There is a huge intimidation factor when you have a tank securing a position. ANd your comments about HE rounds are rediculous. There's a .50 cal mounted on top of tanks, which is manned by a gunner. Imagine the intimidation of a tank with a .50 cal machinegun to deter looters!


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Edited by Ellis Dee (04/19/03 03:40 AM)


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OfflineGringoLoco
I spit in theface of peoplewho ain't cool.
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: wingnutx]
    #1472461 - 04/19/03 04:04 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

/me remembers Tianamen square, tanks seemed pretty effective then.


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Offlinewingnutx
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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1472497 - 04/19/03 04:41 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

A single tank anywhere would be attacked. You need dismounted troops to cover it, especially in a city. Cops on foot or horseback are great, especially against nominally law-abiding citizens. Soldiers in the building would have prevented looting, but you'd need enough of them to dissuade people from fucking with them. Basically you need the threat of overwhelming force. "Just enough" force is more likely to lead to a fight, and we don't want one there.

Tianamen Square was assaulted by both tanks and infantry. They blasted civilians with HE rounds and ran them over. We don't really want to do that sort of thing, as it can lead to hard feelings. Chicoms weren't too worried about winning the hearts and minds of their dissenting students.

The museums are just a fallback position for people who ran out of legitimate things to use as examples of failure. Boo fucking hoo. They are better off losing some relics from their past if the choice was between that and what is needed for their future.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


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Re: 5,000 years of human history lost... [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1522218 - 05/05/03 05:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

And the story turns out to be exaggerated.

"UH OH .. NOW WE?RE LEARNING THE TRUTH ABOUT THAT IRAQI MUSEUM

Pity the poor left. In the days following the liberation of Iraq leftists finally thought they had an issue they could exploit. The profoundly stupid and uncultured George Bush had failed to protect the Iraqi national museum. The entire history of the beginning of civilization had disappeared with the looting of tens of thousands of priceless artifacts from the museum .. all because of George Bush.

Well ? looks like another oops for the left. The Chicago Tribune has now lowered that estimate of the number of precious antiquities looted from the Baghdad museum from 10,000 to ?.. 38. That?s right, 38. The single most valuable artifact is a bowl. The remainder of the artifacts was found in the museum ? largely unscathed.

By the way, coalition forces also found a gunner?s next inside the museum. That?s right. An Iraqi sniper was using the museum to fire on coalition troops. Bush probably put him there to give us an excuse to destroy the museum, but something went wrong along the way."

I can get onto the Tribune site but can't read the article since I have not and will not register. Is there someone here who has registered? It's in the Nation/World section.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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