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Invisiblewhatwemean


Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 6
Bulk Substrate question
    #14687760 - 06/28/11 06:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hey Gang, long-time listener first-time caller, love the show.

My last bulk grow I used straw (75%) & cow manure (25%).  Got an awesome yield, but contam'd before the second flush.  Since then I've read up a bunch and discovered how contam prone straw is.  Also, I didn't pasteurize the straw with lime.

Right now I've got several fully colonized bags waiting and a big pile of cow manure leeching in the back yard.  Was going to try a few variations of substrate but thought it might be wise to avoid straw for fear that if it might cross contam my other boxes if it goes out early.

So here's an idea for a bulk substrate, would appreciate your thoughts/experiences: coir, verm, cow shit, gypsum, chicken shit.  Ratios: 4 parts coir, 4 parts verm, 2 part cow manure, 1 part gypsum, very small amount of chicken poop (5%-ish)

Anybody done a bulk sub like this?  Additions/subtractions?  Any thought regarding straw?

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Invisibleslapphappypill
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: whatwemean]
    #14687792 - 06/28/11 06:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

All those work well. I personally would use more of what ever type of sub you have, and use a little of everything in each mixture. maybe do a controlled study to see which mixture works best for you and your specific type of mushy


--------------------
We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze....

                   

FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~

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OfflinepsilocybinjunkieM
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: slapphappypill]
    #14687977 - 06/28/11 07:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That doesn't sound bad (bagged manure is the hardest part for colonization), why don't you used pellitized wheat straw? Google OxBow Eco Straw or litter. It works great when mixed with some Verm, Peat, and a lil cow manure. Or check this link http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19819&cmpid=08csegb&ref=3312&subref=AA&CAWELAID=525379568

You use boiling water to hydrate the straw, it bulks up tremendously, then you bake the mix in the oven for 90 minutes at 250 degrees. Let cool, Rehydrated with some boil sterilized water (allowed to cool ofcoarse) and presto.

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Invisiblewhatwemean


Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 6
Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: psilocybinjunkie]
    #14688071 - 06/28/11 07:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hmm, pelleted straw -- that's a new one for me.  Shredding straw into 1"-2" bits is total pain in the ass, so that sounds really promising.  Have you had good multi-flush experiences with straw pellets?  Not sure why plain-old-buy-it-in-a-bale straw is such a "one-flush wonder," though in my experience last year it was (& Agar has said the same thing.)  Perhaps the exposed bits are just extremely mold & fungus friendly?  Thanks for the suggestion, I might try that for a couple of my boxes.

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OfflinepsilocybinjunkieM
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: whatwemean]
    #14688305 - 06/28/11 08:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Well here's the deal, experiences vary, but overall it's great. It doesn't contam too often, every now and then you will get contams. That happens with everything though.

Depending on the strain, usually 2-3 flushes. A nice first flush can be 1.5-1.7 dry ounces. From 3 to 4 PF Pints, spawned to 1 large turkey roaster pan of straw/mix. Dump it outof the large roaster pan and  into a montub, mix in your spawn, and then let it colonize...

Better Spawn will give better results i'm sure. There is a lot of room to play with your recipe etc. Just don't go to heavy on the Cow Manure, it's counter productive. Try two different mix ratio's and see which you prefer. You'll find something you like i'm certain.

What strain are you gonna work with?

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Invisibleslapphappypill
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: psilocybinjunkie]
    #14688450 - 06/28/11 08:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybinjunkie said:
Just don't go to heavy on the Cow Manure, it's counter productive.





You can grow in 100% cow shit, just like you can do the same with coir and grain spawn as well as H-poo...


--------------------
We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze....

                   

FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~

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OfflinesubliciouscompostV
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: slapphappypill]
    #14688719 - 06/28/11 09:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The manure Will work great. You can grind some straw in a blender, maybe add some worm castings and gypsum. Lime is not needed in sub but is needed in casing.


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OfflinepsilocybinjunkieM
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: slapphappypill]
    #14688983 - 06/28/11 10:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

slapphappypill said:
You can grow in 100% cow shit, just like you can do the same with coir and grain spawn as well as H-poo...



Not if it's a bagged product from home depot/lowes etc. That was in my first reply if you read it. Go buy a bag of steer-gro manure and try spawning it :smirk:

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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: subliciouscompost]
    #14689228 - 06/28/11 10:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

subliciouscompost said:
The manure Will work great. You can grind some straw in a blender, maybe add some worm castings and gypsum. Lime is not needed in sub but is needed in casing.





Putting straw in a blender......My world just changed. Thank you Subliciouscompost.

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OfflinesubliciouscompostV
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14689388 - 06/28/11 11:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Haha, no problem. Good luck! Don't put to much in at a time.


--------------------
Sublicious Compost - Grow your own mushrooms at home!

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Sublicious Compost is proud to offer mushroom kits, spawn jars and spawn bags! Check out SubFarms.com.

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Invisiblewhatwemean


Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 6
Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: whatwemean]
    #14689663 - 06/29/11 12:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm growing PE, and have some really nicely colonized WBS filter patch bags.  Haven't used store bought manure cause I don't know how its been treated and how old it is.  I get the cow manure from pastures in the country about an hour outside of the city I live in.  Every time I've knocked on a door and asked if I could gather some cow pies, people have always seemed amused and totally accommodating.  In the PNW they're never quite dry enough, so they need a week or two in the sun on a tarp.  Never tried a grow with horse poop (which, where I grew up in Alabama was sometimes called "roadapple") but might try a box with that too.  Also, wildernessjunkie, you can put straw in a rubbermaid with a rectangle cut in the lid and go to town with a weedwacker.  Think I first saw that tip from Mycophile or RR.

BTW, psilocybinjunkie, why do you say cow poop is counterproductive?  Because it's chunky and hard to colonize?

Thanks everybody for the feedback!  Excited to try out the straw pellets.

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Invisiblewhatwemean


Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 6
Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: whatwemean]
    #14689723 - 06/29/11 12:54 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Oh yeah, sublicious, you think like 50% straw, 25% really broken up cow poop, 15% worm castings, 10% gypsum?

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OfflinesubliciouscompostV
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: whatwemean]
    #14690581 - 06/29/11 08:05 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That would work but I would use 25% wheat straw, 50% manure, 20%worm castings, 5% gypsum.
Manure would be the most nutritious here. Make sure it's wheat straw or it's only use really will be for consistency. You could also add some spent coffee grounds if you have. In my product, that's why I use the gypsum, it helps neutralize the acidity in the coffee grounds.


--------------------
Sublicious Compost - Grow your own mushrooms at home!

Now offering FREE SHIPPING with orders over $50!

Sublicious Compost is proud to offer mushroom kits, spawn jars and spawn bags! Check out SubFarms.com.

25% off all orders using Bitcoin! Use coupon code Bitcoin!

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Offlinetrout
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: subliciouscompost]
    #14690708 - 06/29/11 08:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I feel straw is almost essential for quick colonization.  It lets the myce run quickly through the sub. and lightens it up for less dense shit.  As for shredding straw go get a electric leaf blower/vac combo cheap($49) at Lowe's, wally-world... vacume shred a whole bale in 20 min.  do it twice cus some will be long the first run through.  Just shove it in the tube the first time and then dump it out and suck it up for the second run.  Pasteurize at the correct temp and time and you should not have problems.


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I need tropical cultures, ABM, V.v....!!!!

Well things don't always look as they are and things can be misread and mistaken for what they realy are so don't read too much into what I say since I might be mistaken myself. And remember I rarely ever give a definate answer.

Edited by trout (06/29/11 08:53 AM)

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Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: trout]
    #14690876 - 06/29/11 09:49 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I don't like straw as such a high proportion of the substrate. I'd cut down to 25 percent or so as someone else suggested.

However I am a fan of pre-hydrating the straw in a lime bath just as an added precaution. And make sure you don't over-pasteurize the straw or the manure.

Earthworm castings are pretty inert in my opinion. I don't even consider them a nitrogen boost because compared to other supplements it sucks. And they aren't cheap.

The chicken manure on the other hand is an awesome nitrogen supplement, but you have to be careful not to burn the myc because the stuff is so potent. 5% is hard to guage, so another rule of thumb is to not exceed 1 cup of chicken manure (or exotic guano supplements) per 5 gallons of substrate. I find it's easier to think in these terms than percentages, but do whatever works for you. You'll know if you burned the sub with nitrogen. You'll have crazy pinning from a substrate that looks like it's not fully colonized. The uncolonized bits are where the substrate is nitrogen burned.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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Invisibleanonjon
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Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: trout]
    #14690879 - 06/29/11 09:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trout said:
As for shredding straw go get a electric leaf blower/vac combo cheap($49) at Lowe's, wally-world... vacume shred a whole bale in 20 min.  do it twice cus some will be long the first run through.  Just shove it in the tube the first time and then dump it out and suck it up for the second run.  Pasteurize at the correct temp and time and you should not have problems.





What?! If this works like you describe, u are my hero of the week. You should totally post a video of you doing this.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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Offlinetrout
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: anonjon]
    #14691013 - 06/29/11 10:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Dude it works like a dream for straw, it will not shred limbs for wood lovers but it will be the best 50 you ever spent if you do a lot of straw.


--------------------
I need tropical cultures, ABM, V.v....!!!!

Well things don't always look as they are and things can be misread and mistaken for what they realy are so don't read too much into what I say since I might be mistaken myself. And remember I rarely ever give a definate answer.

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OfflinesubliciouscompostV
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: trout]
    #14691273 - 06/29/11 11:40 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I second with anonjon, I'm going to get a blower this week! Thanks Trout!!!


--------------------
Sublicious Compost - Grow your own mushrooms at home!

Now offering FREE SHIPPING with orders over $50!

Sublicious Compost is proud to offer mushroom kits, spawn jars and spawn bags! Check out SubFarms.com.

25% off all orders using Bitcoin! Use coupon code Bitcoin!

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Offlinetrout
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: subliciouscompost]
    #14691433 - 06/29/11 12:23 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I can just see it now Trout's Leaf Vacume Straw Tek.  I'll be famous!


--------------------
I need tropical cultures, ABM, V.v....!!!!

Well things don't always look as they are and things can be misread and mistaken for what they realy are so don't read too much into what I say since I might be mistaken myself. And remember I rarely ever give a definate answer.

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OfflinepsilocybinjunkieM
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Re: Bulk Substrate question [Re: trout]
    #14692681 - 06/29/11 04:32 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Chicken manure is rather toxic and loaded with Arsenic. The FDA just announced that most of all U.S. chickens (and naturally their waste products), contain Arsenic. In levels that are considered hazardous to human health. It's in the chicken feed they give to them called "Roxarsone". They released the info a few weeks back. Supposedly they plan on stopping the use of Arsenic, for chickens in the future...

Chicken Manure, from factory farmed chickens, has caused several children's deaths, near the Tyson factory in the past. Tyson Chicken was subject to a lawsuit for the cancer deaths it caused, after spraying the highly toxic chicken manure on local town lawns..

The reason they give the chickens the Arsenic is too fight off the deadly bacteria, contained in the tainted chicken manure. The birds literally bathe in it, inside the filthy factory farms. Then they are fed Arsenic too keep them "safe for consumption". It also has the added benefit of changing the color of the chickens meat, and increases the birds size.

Edited by psilocybinjunkie (06/29/11 04:40 PM)

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