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Offlineeliphis
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Bunch of general questions..
    #14686138 - 06/28/11 12:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hi friends,

New guy here.. I'm just about to finish my first PF Tek just waiting for cakes to fruit.. Have a few questions I was hoping the community could help me out with. This is going to be long, sorry in advance, hah.

1) Spore prints - Going to take my own when this this batch fruits. Is there any reason not to do a spore print right in a jar? I see guides from people saying do it on foil and then scrape the spores into a jar.. could I just drop a cap in a (sterile) jar, leave it over night, then spray some water in there/suck it up with a syringe?

How many spores does one need in each syringe? Would it at all be beneficial to say, put two caps worth of spores into a single syringe? Or could you spread one cap over two syringes or something? Will mycelium grow faster/stronger/easier with less spores or is just a few enough?

2) I'm looking pretty much to just grow as many shrooms as possible. The cake method seemed to make sense but when I look at photos online it seems like the pictures that have the most shrooms coming out of them are trays.. Stuff like this..
http://www.shroomery.org/5533/oldimages-3381-22289-jpg
https://files.shroomery.org/cms/oldimages/3381/22837.jpg

Are trays the way to go when looking for bulk growth? Does anyone have a good guide to something on how to do trays like that? How does it differ from doing cakes?

3) The nature of mycelium.. how does it work exactly? Like.. If I were to take a cake that was ready to fruit pretty much then broke it out and spread it out flat.. would it still fruit? Would it not fruit more? (more surface area).. does breaking it up like that damage the mycelium in some fashion or something? I was going to experiment with this but didn't want to ruin a cake..

4) Multiple flushes. If I just pick and continue to keep them damp do multiple flushes just happen on their own? Is there a way to encourage it? Does it eventually stop?

5) Is one type of substrate better than another? I used brown rice flour/verm.. I see people use birdseed, dung, etc.. is one better than another and why?

6) Casing.. Some people use soil vs verm? What exactly does the casing do? What would happen if you didn't case? Are some casings better than others and why?

7) Is it safe to rinse/reuse my perlite or is that a bad plan?

8) Amounts of water - Is there such a thing as too much? Can you drown your cakes or anything? I've been spraying/misting 4-5 times a day.. Too much?

9) How much light do they need to fruit? My grow box is a dark/opaque plastic and the light is outside of the grow box. Sure theres piles of holes in it and such but will they grow with minimal light?

Sorry, I know this is a lot. Any help is greatly appreciated, thx in advance.

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InvisibleDeepSpace9
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Re: Bunch of general questions.. [Re: eliphis]
    #14686225 - 06/28/11 01:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think you need to search for some of those answers. I doubt anyone will take the time to type all that for you when it is already here. Just use the search function for each question. Hell, I started to answer until I realized it was 9 questions.

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Offlinebige9920
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Re: Bunch of general questions.. [Re: eliphis]
    #14686300 - 06/28/11 01:26 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

my thoughts:
1)Spore prints: my guess is that usually a spore print, unless very tiny, will make a lot of syringes. if you did it in a jar then cover it and save it then put sterile water in it then i see no harm but it will prolly be a waste of spores as a print will make a lot... but for storage you want dark too, at least i would think you would. so if you keep the jars dark i wouldn't see an issue. i take my prints fold them in tin foil and then put it in a plastic sleeve and into a book on the shelf for safe keeping. make sure though the jar is sterile and water too. would suck to put contaminets in right from the start.

2) for your first grow try cakes. sure you get more with casing but you should learn the basics first. if you decide to go bulk, look below at the links. all this info can be found in the cultivation section. i tried to case the my first batch and i failed big. got 2 mushrooms. i went to cakes and did that 2 times and sure enough casing seemed easier that time around. plus while you get your cakes going it will give you time for more research. read read read....:grin:

http://www.shroomery.org/11333/Bulk-Substrates
http://www.shroomery.org/11334/Casing-Procedures
http://www.shroomery.org/11339/Grain-Spawn

3) mycelium will regrow from crumbled cakes but i find to slice them with a sterile knife works good. but remember it takes time for the mycelium to heal from this. try a grain spawn instead for casing.

4)well for casings you would pick everything and spray them til damp and i add a very thin layer of casing mix and then just wait. cakes you dunk for 12-24 hrs then place back in the chamber. always remember to cut the bad parts out. eventually cantaminants will over take it and thats it, otherwise they go 2-3 flushes and they are spent. better to use the space for new casings/cakes :mushroom2:

5) they all have advantages and disadvantages. the main differance is do you want bulk or cakes. BRF is easy cause it can be prepared w/o pressure cooker. the others NEED a PC otherwise it will not kill the yuckies and may contaminate

6)vermiculate holds moisture well and is light to allow growth. it all has to do with moisture. i could see soil going dry rather quick and settle out. vermiculate/cocoa coir works good.

7)i used mine for 4 crops and i cook it in the oven each time. seems to be fine but i will be converting to new soon. personal decision, not sure how long... maybe someone else can answer this.

8) yes too much water is bad. never have sagnant water sitting. it grows and harbors contaminants. what kind of fruiting chamber do you have? if you follow the tek for the fruiting chambers you really shouldnt need to myst a lot. over mysting can kill the premordia (infantcy stage for fruiting mushies) get a hydrometer and keep it close to 100% for cakes and 90% for casing. fresh air is important.

9) ok so i made this mistake too. GET A CLEAR ON ALL 6 SIDES PLASTIC BIN!!! $14 bucks at lowes. drill 1/4in holes 2 inches apart on all 6 sides. light does better on the side, or so they say, but i put one over each chamber (i have 2 FC) and do 12hr on/off. works well.

Sounds like you are on your way! remember to look first and search the message boards. there are a lot of good teks and even some cool epiramental techniques that you might find interesting. happy shrooming. PM me with other questions if you want. happy trips! :crazy2: :mushroom2: :tongue2:

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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Bunch of general questions.. [Re: DeepSpace9]
    #14686306 - 06/28/11 01:27 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

1 - 1 spore print should equal 10-20 syringes from a single cap. Yes, you can print like that in a jar, but you need some air flow. I just my SAB for prints.

2 - Damion5050's Elementary coir tek here. You can crumble & spawn cakes to it.

3 - breaking does damage the mycelium, which is why you'd only break them up to spawn to bulk.

4 - You pick, dunk & re-introduce to Fruiting Conditions. They'll stop when the nutrients are all used up or a contam has set in. Normally around 4-5 flushes, but you should get the majority of weight from the first flush.

5 - BRF is for cakes & grains are for spawning to bulk w/ a tek like Damion5050's or use manure instead of coir for bulk.

6 - PS. C. do not need a casing layer. They're for moisture retention &/or if you're having problems w/ RH in your Fruiting Chamber.

7 - You can rinse & reuse perlite. Just wash it w/ some soap.

8 - You can drown your cakes. Too much water is bad. Mist & fan as needed. That's just a trial and error thing & dialing in your FC.

9 - Light is beneficial for mycelium @ all stages. They will grow in the Fruiting stage w/out it, but grow much better w/ it. Use a 6500K light bulb & a completely clear tub on all 6 sides.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
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Offlinebige9920
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Re: Bunch of general questions.. [Re: bige9920]
    #14686310 - 06/28/11 01:27 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

sorry deepspace... i was bored... lol :stoned:

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InvisibleDeepSpace9
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Re: Bunch of general questions.. [Re: bige9920]
    #14686343 - 06/28/11 01:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Dont apologize to me, I wasnt trying to be a jerk, I am just too :bigblunt: to put all that together. Awesome you are able to help!

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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: Bunch of general questions.. [Re: eliphis]
    #14686388 - 06/28/11 01:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

1) You can scrape spores into a sterile glass as you know or try a un-opened small zip lock baggy, They both work but it all comes down to preference. I feel more comfortable with small bags of spore solution.

2) Cakes make decent spawn but you need more of them to fill bigger tubs since they're ratio is low, 1 cake = 2 cups of spawn, usually 1 verm, 1 coir for the 50/50 mix.
You can try experimenting with supplements like coffee, worm castings, corn cob powder. But yes, for better yields spawning is worth it.  The only down fall is that its putting all your eggs in one basket, if the sub contams you're out your spawn and time.

3)Spores germinate, mate and form mycelium (just to keep it simple)

If you broke up a cake and placed it flat the mycelium would dry out quicker due to its smaller size and damage its over all health since mycelium is a living organism and is susceptible to other molds primarily trichoderma (green mold). Not to mention the nutrients would be squandered away while the mycelium recovered itself. This is why spawning cakes is good instead of just breaking them up together.

4) Multiple flushes are very possible on bulk and cakes, you can normally expect 2-3 from healthy substrates. After every flush you should attempt to recover your substrate by submerging it in clean, perfably distilled water for roughly 6-12 hours and then carefully drain it and be sure that you let it recover for 24-48 hours afterwards and then fruit again and repeat until the mean green sets in or the substrate is spent at which time the mushrooms will no longer mature.

5) Whole grain spawn like rye, WBS, millet etc etc allows for more inoculation sites in bulk substrates which make it good for bulk tubs with higher substrate depths that would require 24 pf cakes opposed to 6 or 8 jars of grain spawn. Another advantage is the size that some cubensis can reach, I had a 1 oz mushroom dried mushroom and a bunch of 21g, 18g, 14g ones.... Never got that off of pf cakes but dont get discouraged pf cakes can produce plenty of fair sized mushrooms.

6) To much to explain here, look up the different casing materials and supplements, you will get a better explanation then I can provide.

The reason people case is to give the mycelium a protective barrier for fruiting and provide moisture so the sub does not dry out, there's a ton of mixtures on here.

7) Ive used reboiled perlite without problems, unless its coming from a fruiting chamber that was heavily infested with green mold then your ok.

8) Mist 3-4 times a day and fan, as long as there is no standing water on the cakes then your fine. Keep the humidity up with them, cakes are a pain to fruit manually like that.

9) 12on 12off of light is plenty, sunlight works very well.

I think this has been my most stoned post to date, tc.


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Offlinebige9920
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Re: Bunch of general questions.. [Re: DeepSpace9]
    #14686391 - 06/28/11 01:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

haha yeah man no wories... but its true, search bar! lol i read FOREVER before i did my first batch, and i still messed it up lol. learned the hard way not to cut corners  :bigjoint: cheers

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OfflineWing
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Re: Bunch of general questions.. [Re: DeepSpace9]
    #14686416 - 06/28/11 01:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

1- you can get a couple syringes from 1 print usually.

2- No, monotubs are the way for bulk.

3- It would fruit if case. Bruising takes its yoll on the mycelium. it takes time to heal ... if it can.

4- You'll get at least 3 decent flushes usually then it declines.

5- brf is a very nutritious. People use grains cuz they are very nutritious and have a lot of surface area for spores to germinate and spawns easily. Grains are better for bulk IMO. Easier to break up.

6- Casing

7- Yea. I would use caution to make sure its clean and contam free

8- Yes it can be bad. Really bad for jars. Once its out of the jar its not as big a problem, but you can still over water during fruiting. As a general practice, I spray to replace moisture after fanning and any time it looks dry. I reduce my spraying once I see fruits.

9- Indirect light is enough. They actually dont even need light but it sure helps. Try a 12/12 cycle with a light bulb in the 6500k light spectrum.


--------------------
My Old Grow Logs


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Offlineeliphis
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Re: Bunch of general questions.. [Re: DeepSpace9]
    #14691733 - 06/29/11 01:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

This is so awesome, thanks so much to everyone who had some advice.

I think the monotub thing looks like a really great idea and I'm going to have to find a good write up on how to do it best. Looks like the most yields on top of as little maintence as can be, which is great because it seems like maybe it will drop the risk of contaims.

Thanks again everyone.

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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Bunch of general questions.. [Re: eliphis]
    #14691748 - 06/29/11 01:26 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I have a mono tub tek in my signature "One Flush Wonders" :super:


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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