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Immortal Corrupter
Elevator Eater



Registered: 06/08/11
Posts: 424
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: hyperjump69]
#14664159 - 06/24/11 07:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyperjump69 said: I'm prejudiced against people making drugs out of household chemicals and killing their bodies with them. I.e,- Sudafed cooked down with weed killer- Meth. Cocaine cooked down with Kerosene- Crack, Codeine cooked down with Iodine-Krok, and so on and so forth. If it has a natural propensity to grow from the ground (without alteration) and you can use it without harm to yourself or someone else, I say go for it.  The indigenous people used to take coca leaves and make a quid and use that for a little boost all day. That was cool. Then some knuckle-head gets the idea to use Ether and WA-LA! Powder is born. How many people lose their lives, money and teeth to coke every year? BUNCHES. Ever seen a Meth-head? My God man, they look like CRAP. No teeth, skinny as hell and unclean. Looks like they've aged 20 years in 2. Ever known a heroin addict ? Especially when they can't score? They shit themselves, have high fever and shake... You could NEVER justify to me anyone's addiction to an item like that. If one had open eyes to see the unrest, evil and completely malignant ways to these and other drugs then you could see the damage it does to the user and their loved ones. On the other hand, I smoke a joint and I want to eat a box of doughnuts. Or I experience happy vibes and spiritual revelations after ingesting a mushie. All GOOD things. Smoke some crack and see how fast you want to run and knife a Grandma so you can get her purse....Man! No wonder this world is going to shit.
Dude, I've actually seen what coke has done to someones nose...fucking disgusting, bitch like scraped a small chunk of dead cartilage out of there....just...not right 
Also bout the meth heads, haven't met the after effects yet, but I know 2 people that are all up on that shit and heroin...wtf happened to weed being good enough or just slamming a few brews?!
-------------------- where's my lap dance? . /OO\ / (y) \ //\ (\\__/) ( O.o ) ( > < ) What poor gods we do make
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hyperjump69
Papa Snatchy



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 432
Loc: Shakedown Street
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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My sentiments, EXACTLY. Thanks for the post Immortal.
-------------------- This link will drive you NUTS-------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKYw0XJfzO4&feature=BFa&list=LLimI46qikD80&index=4
Sorry I don't conform to your idea of reality. Now go away before I bitch-slap you.
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Toe_Jam
Bluefoot Bandit



Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 3,693
Loc: Around some corner...
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: deCypher]
#14664298 - 06/24/11 08:30 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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deCypher said: Despite your lack of presentation of any scientific studies
I see you presented many and varied sources to cover your argument..
And really, one of my points is concerning human arrogance and what they THINK they know.
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deCypher said: My point with the magic mushrooms example showed that nausea is not a sufficient indicator of toxicity.
Yeah, I meant it when I said, "Not even similar". The first time I did mushrooms (low dose, 2 grams) i got a small stomach upset. The first time I did a low dose of opiates (20 mg of oxy) I puked, felt sick, and then slept for 16 hours. And I didn't even snort it, just ate it. Then the next day I felt like shit (hangover). The day after doing shrooms the first time I felt great. Hangover efttects indicate how taxing/damaging something is to the body. A little bit of a difference, but whatever you have to tell yourself so that you think doing opiates is safe.
I'm going to go out on this crazy limb and trust my body, over what arrogant human's think they know. There is so much that is not even perceptable to us currently, how could we definitively say something like opiates are non-toxic?
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deCypher said: But keep on believing otherwise to maintain your sobriety. 
This is incredibly presumptuous, and not true at all. I knew they were toxic when I was doing them, and I still do substances that are toxic. I stay away from opiates because they are incredibly addictive, dangerous, and deadly. They make you go to extremes to satisfy youself (such as shoot iodine laced drugs for instance).
But yeah, it isn't ignorant to basically advocate their use and somehow claim them as safe. Looks like some of you are in denial.
And thanks for trying to bring this argument down the the personal insult level (like they do in OTD) twice now with that comment. Classy. Just like laughing at someone's sobriety.
Edited by Toe_Jam (06/24/11 11:21 AM)
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orangeyouglad
Gravity Junkie


Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 251
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: Toe_Jam]
#14665050 - 06/24/11 11:40 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
E-in Liondragon said:
Quote:
deCypher said: Despite your lack of presentation of any scientific studies
I see you presented many and varied sources to cover your argument..
And really, one of my points is concerning human arrogance and what they THINK they know.
Quote:
deCypher said: My point with the magic mushrooms example showed that nausea is not a sufficient indicator of toxicity.
Yeah, I meant it when I said, "Not even similar". The first time I did mushrooms (low dose) i got a small stomache upset. The first time I did a low dose of opiates (20 mg of oxy) I puked, felt sick, and then slept for 16 hours. And I didn't even snort it, just ate it. A little bit of a difference, but whatever you have to tell yourself so that you think doing opiates is safe.
Quote:
deCypher said: But keep on believing otherwise to maintain your sobriety. 
This is incredibly presumptuous, and not true at all. I knew they were toxic when I was doing them, and I still do substances that are toxic. I stay away from opiates because they are incredibly addictive, dangerous, and deadly. They make you go to extremes to satisfy youself (such as shoot iodine laced drugs for instance).
But yeah, it isn't ignorant to basically advocate their use and somehow claim them as safe. Looks like some of you are in denial.
And thanks for trying to bring this argument down the the personal insult level (like they do in OTD) twice now with that comment. Classy. Just like laughing at someone's sobriety.
The entire point of the argument was not to claim that opiates are safe in all circumstances, just that it IS possible to use them responsibly, and that some people can do it. No one here is denying that there's a certain level of risk when doing opiates, or that somehow by not demonizing these drugs we're encouraging everyone to do them.
As for your weird toxicity argument based on puking, every time I have a cup of green tea on an empty stomach, I puke. Does that mean it's toxic? No, not at all. You puked on oxy because it upsets your stomach, not because you reached some threshold that your body decided was lethal. You then fell asleep for 16 hours because it's a narcotic. I've had the exact same response from eating too many pot brownies. Lots of compounds can be lethal at some dose or another (water springs to mind), and commonly perceived poisons (you already brought up arsenic) can be consumed perfectly safely in very small amounts.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: orangeyouglad]
#14666464 - 06/24/11 04:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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E-in Liondragon said:
Quote:
deCypher said: Despite your lack of presentation of any scientific studies
I see you presented many and varied sources to cover your argument..
The burden of proof is on the claimant, dude. Seriously, if you're going to argue that opiates are toxic no matter at what dosage you're taking them, then you need to back up your shit or GTFO. Like I've said, there are millions of long-term pain patients who exhibit no harmful effects from their opiate use.
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E-in Liondragon said: But yeah, it isn't ignorant to basically advocate their use and somehow claim them as safe. Looks like some of you are in denial.
If you think I'm advocating opiate use then you must have been reading someone else's posts. I've been through the cycle of heroin addiction myself and have thrown tens of thousands of dollars away on the fleeting feeling they provide, and would never recommend someone trying them apart for reasons of serious pain management. And yet the fact remains that opiates do not cause brain or bodily damage when taken properly and at reasonable dosages. 
Quote:
orangeyouglad said: The entire point of the argument was not to claim that opiates are safe in all circumstances, just that it IS possible to use them responsibly, and that some people can do it. No one here is denying that there's a certain level of risk when doing opiates, or that somehow by not demonizing these drugs we're encouraging everyone to do them.
As for your weird toxicity argument based on puking, every time I have a cup of green tea on an empty stomach, I puke. Does that mean it's toxic? No, not at all. You puked on oxy because it upsets your stomach, not because you reached some threshold that your body decided was lethal. You then fell asleep for 16 hours because it's a narcotic. I've had the exact same response from eating too many pot brownies. Lots of compounds can be lethal at some dose or another (water springs to mind), and commonly perceived poisons (you already brought up arsenic) can be consumed perfectly safely in very small amounts.
Exactly.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Toe_Jam
Bluefoot Bandit



Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 3,693
Loc: Around some corner...
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: orangeyouglad]
#14667226 - 06/24/11 07:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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deCypher said:
The burden of proof is on the claimant, dude.
Yeah, and you claim opiates are non-toxic. Where is the proof/evidence? My claim has common sense backing it up. Yours has....???? Hopeful junkies ? Didn't you say a number of times that this crackpot theory is backed by some kind of study or some other formn of proof that isn't just word of mouth?? Where is it?
But it's ok. I realized that trying to use things like sense as an argument with certain people on this site is useless. They just believe what they want to because it is convenient, or just what some other drug loving fool suggested on here and it sounds good/ is interesting.
Quote:
orangeyouglad said:
just that it IS possible to use them responsibly, and that some people can do it.
 Yeah that is what junkies tell themselves isn't it?
-------------------- God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent March 1984   A pleasing land of drowsy head it was, Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye, And of gay castles in the clouds that pass, For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: Toe_Jam]
#14667337 - 06/24/11 07:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Straight from Wikipedia (and you can look up the cited references if you want):
Quote:
Studies over the past 20 years have repeatedly shown opioids to be safe when they are used correctly.
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Opioid analgesics do not cause any specific organ toxicity, unlike many other drugs, such as aspirin and acetaminophen. They are not associated with upper gastrointestinal bleeding and renal toxicity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid
Keep on believing opiates are poison no matter what the dosage though.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
Edited by deCypher (06/24/11 07:54 PM)
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Toe_Jam
Bluefoot Bandit



Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 3,693
Loc: Around some corner...
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: deCypher]
#14667358 - 06/24/11 07:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I guess we have very different ideas as to what makes something a poison or a toxin. If something leaves a hangover like opiates do, it is just impossible for me to believe they don't cause any damage to the body.
Like I said 20 posts ago, let's just agree to disagree.
Edited by Toe_Jam (06/24/11 07:55 PM)
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Tangerines



Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: Toe_Jam]
#14667484 - 06/24/11 08:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
E-in Liondragon said: I guess we have very different ideas as to what makes something a poison or a toxin. If something leaves a hangover like opiates do, it is just impossible for me to believe they don't cause any damage to the body.
Like I said 20 posts ago, let's just agree to disagree.
Woah broah. Everything in moderation. If you drink too much water you can die of overhydration (worst hangover EVAR omg). Does that make it a toxin? .....
Of course not. The same applies to opiates.
Hangover=/= toxic
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Toe_Jam
Bluefoot Bandit



Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 3,693
Loc: Around some corner...
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: Tangerines]
#14667528 - 06/24/11 08:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said:
Quote:
E-in Liondragon said: I guess we have very different ideas as to what makes something a poison or a toxin. If something leaves a hangover like opiates do, it is just impossible for me to believe they don't cause any damage to the body.
Like I said 20 posts ago, let's just agree to disagree.
Woah broah. Everything in moderation. If you drink too much water you can die of overhydration (worst hangover EVAR omg). Does that make it a toxin? .....
Of course not. The same applies to opiates.
Hangover=/= toxic
Yeah, maybe you should READ the previous posts before jumping in there sparky. This has been covered.
I'm not really sure how it is just glancing past you guys how someone could consider something like heroin to be a toxin. Even if you don't agree with it, I think it is quite an unserstandable viewpoint.
-------------------- God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent March 1984   A pleasing land of drowsy head it was, Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye, And of gay castles in the clouds that pass, For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence
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2jew4u
Stranger
Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 1,014
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: Toe_Jam]
#14667584 - 06/24/11 08:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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blame the needles-
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hyperjump69
Papa Snatchy



Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 432
Loc: Shakedown Street
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: Toe_Jam]
#14667623 - 06/24/11 08:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I do have to agree with E-in on this one, (which doesn't make me right or wrong- we just share the same idea). Heroin is not an opiate that can be used with little or no side-effect. After only three times snorting it, I found myself in a pickle. I wanted more. I was sick. Physically. I knew my addiction was on. I stopped. End of story. I've taken hydro's and oxy also. I love them. That's the problem. When a person decides to give up his/her's life to follow a drug they are no longer in control of their life. They have relinquished the Universal Light in themselves to worship something that doesn't even care how far down it takes them. People in serious medical pain with neurological or medical problems should have access to pain med's (opiates). Junkies that don't give a fuck should just dry out and take back their life instead of concocting some "home-brew" stuff that rots them so bad their bones stick out. You guys did see the picture, right? That shit ain't cool.
-------------------- This link will drive you NUTS-------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKYw0XJfzO4&feature=BFa&list=LLimI46qikD80&index=4
Sorry I don't conform to your idea of reality. Now go away before I bitch-slap you.
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Humility
Working on it



Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,745
Last seen: 7 years, 3 days
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Re: Krokodil: The drug that eats junkies [Rus] [Re: Toe_Jam]
#14671193 - 06/25/11 04:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
E-in Liondragon said:
Quote:
Tangerines said:
Quote:
E-in Liondragon said: I guess we have very different ideas as to what makes something a poison or a toxin. If something leaves a hangover like opiates do, it is just impossible for me to believe they don't cause any damage to the body.
Like I said 20 posts ago, let's just agree to disagree.
Woah broah. Everything in moderation. If you drink too much water you can die of overhydration (worst hangover EVAR omg). Does that make it a toxin? .....
Of course not. The same applies to opiates.
Hangover=/= toxic
Yeah, maybe you should READ the previous posts before jumping in there sparky. This has been covered.
I'm not really sure how it is just glancing past you guys how someone could consider something like heroin to be a toxin. Even if you don't agree with it, I think it is quite an unserstandable viewpoint.
...
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CyanFieldsForever
Shroom Fiend

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 126
Loc: My state of mind
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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I had to stop reading about it after the third picture *gross*
Quote:
Celestial Traveler said: I found some pictures of it here. I don't know if these are real but if they are, this is fucking disgusting.
http://dybiz.com/sites_randomblog/russian-drug-krokodil-causes-skin-to-rot
-------------------- Try to realise it's all within yourself No-one else can make you change And to see you're really only very small, And life flows within you and without you. - George Harrison
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