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tyrannicalrex
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: Blue boy]
#14665634 - 06/24/11 01:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not really jumping on you,glad to hear that you have an open mind on the subject. I lived and worked in Gulfport MS for 5 years. I know what it is like there. The coastal towns are not too bad. I am a bit opinionated and cynical at times. Comes with age I guess.
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tyrannicalrex
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: morrowasted]
#14665688 - 06/24/11 02:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Viveka said:
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tyrannicalrex said:
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BothHands said: I don't give a shit what you call it, I want the right to see my partner in the hospital, adopt children, have joint parenting, next of kin, etc.
Not to mention the other hundreds of benefits married people get.
I think the real question here is why should the government provide incentives for marriage?
Why should people who are married get tax breaks and all these other benefits that people who are not married are not entitled to? This is another illustration of how the government cannot provide liberty, it can only take it away and in this case it takes it away from those who are not married and by extension those who are not legally allowed to marry.
What if a person is an unlikely candidate for marriage because they are butt ugly or have flawed genetics or are otherwise repulsive to other people? Isn't that person discriminated against as far as their economic liberties are concerned just the same as a homosexual?
Why not eliminate a certain percentage of the hundreds of little police actions and "wars" all over the world and use some of that federal budget savings to grant EVERYONE the same economic incentives to which married people are entitled?
Maybe if the government didn't provide an economic incentive for marriage there would be less broken marriages. People would get married because of their love for each other and desire for a family instead of the perks in the form of the gov't depriving them of less liberty than those who are not married.
Like one of my favorite teachers in high school, who quite apparently detested his wife, used to say, "MARRIAGE IS A BUSINESS ARRANGEMENT". Left leaning folks like to get upset when the gov't provides tax breaks to big business. How is providing tax breaks to married people fundamentally any different?
Instead of protesting prohibition of gay marriage why not protest government subjugation of non-married people? Give us all the same tax breaks and other economic incentives as married people. Why the fuck not? What is the legislative basis for not doing so?
BINGO! I agree 100% here. Well said.
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weedist said:
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tyrannicalrex said:
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weedist said:
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Two_Swarm said: It's the thought of males having gay sex that most people find repalling.. and if it's not ok for the boys, it's not for the girls. THen you have the religious guys who only do it missionary.. And well, then theres the crop of people who say that it causes social distress in the children of gay parents... It's all about where you live... Me personally feel that my male soul is intended to find a female one to be with. Maybe it's genetic?
In sociology class I learned that a way a person acts is based 50% from genetics 50% through life experiences or how you were raised pretty much
I noticed you are in TN, did you attend classes in sociology there? This might be why they taught you this.
Ouch
I wasn't trying to sting you, I have been to the state and know some people from there. It just figures that something like that would be taught there. The south is notorious for things like this. I am a native Texan, I know. 
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morrowasted said: A lot of people are worried that it threatens the traditional family structure
And therein lies part of the problem. I feel they use this as an argument to really cover their own inadequacies/fears in their own/families/friends marriages. Also the fear/ignorance of gay people period. Once someone has a really close friend/relative come out to them it (hopefully) changes their perspective from negative to positive.
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Hrethic
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: skatealex2]
#14665732 - 06/24/11 02:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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skatealex2 said: Anyone think it shouldn't even be an issue?
I don't thik it should even be a debated issue. If two men or two women want to get married who gives a fuck. Good for them its not like they are getting married outdoors, if it appals you so much just dont go to their weddings. 
Welcome to the 21st century. Or should i say, YOU should be saying that to all those dumbasses who still give a shit.
I really don't know why, but i imagine it has a link to why some people can get so obsessive of other people in the news for any reason (murder: Casey Anthony, fraud: anybody ever convicted of stealing large amounts of money)
I totally agree with you, it isn't an issue, it's a fact. In the same league as racism. Why should i care if you have a differnt tint of skin than me? If you aren't trying to hurt me or a loved one, and aren't trying to be my friend, i just don't care either way.
-------------------- Will all the big boomers please unveil, please unveil, please unveil.
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Hrethic
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: Mad_Larkin]
#14665749 - 06/24/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Mad_Larkin said: Because homosexuality is a crime against nature.
LOL i love this argument. We can go and chop millions of trees, completely pollute the oceans surrounding us, harvest all the ancient energy reserves this planet has... and somehow two people that love each other is a crime against nature.
Actually i absolutely hate this argument, cause it's just so bigoted and STUPID i can hardly imagine someone saying those words and actually believing ANY part of it.
Not saying you're stupid for posting that, glad you did really. Brings up a good point.
-------------------- Will all the big boomers please unveil, please unveil, please unveil.
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BothHands
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: morrowasted]
#14665753 - 06/24/11 02:18 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's all well and good, but how the hell are single people even going to use the benefits? I see you're purely talking about the economic rights that married couples get. I'm not even particularly interested in those. In many cases they actually increase your taxes. I don't recall if it was Toiletduck, luvdemmushrooms, or zappa, but they explained it quite clearly. The person is unmarried specifically because it would cost more to be married. But many of those economic rights really can't be used by a single person. How's a single person going to get a family insurance plan? Or declare income as one entity to get into the higher tax bracket when they're already only one entity?
The rights I'm more interested in though are family rights, like children and hospital visits, next of kin, etc. These obviously can't be used by a single person either.
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morrowasted said: A lot of people are worried that it threatens the traditional family structure
Gay woman have already been shown to be all around better parents.
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BothHands
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: Hrethic]
#14665765 - 06/24/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hrethic said:
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Mad_Larkin said: Because homosexuality is a crime against nature.
LOL i love this argument. We can go and chop millions of trees, completely pollute the oceans surrounding us, harvest all the ancient energy reserves this planet has... and somehow two people that love each other is a crime against nature.
Actually i absolutely hate this argument, cause it's just so bigoted and STUPID i can hardly imagine someone saying those words and actually believing ANY part of it.
Not saying you're stupid for posting that, glad you did really. Brings up a good point.
I think you missed the sarcasm font. Or at least I hope that's what it was.
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Hrethic
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: BothHands]
#14665855 - 06/24/11 02:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh yeah, VERRRRRRY sarcastic... lol crime against nature. Just typing it makes me giggle.
Even the thought of that itself... a crime against nature?. Nature, in and of itself, is a dynamic, ever changing path of events and biologies. I think the subtext of that is "Crime against my tiny, ignorant, unsympathetic/empathetic mindset/worldview".
I know, subtexts are always longer than the real text
-------------------- Will all the big boomers please unveil, please unveil, please unveil.
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morrowasted
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: BothHands]
#14665860 - 06/24/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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BothHands said: That's all well and good, but how the hell are single people even going to use the benefits? I see you're purely talking about the economic rights that married couples get. I'm not even particularly interested in those. In many cases they actually increase your taxes. I don't recall if it was Toiletduck, luvdemmushrooms, or zappa, but they explained it quite clearly. The person is unmarried specifically because it would cost more to be married. But many of those economic rights really can't be used by a single person. How's a single person going to get a family insurance plan? Or declare income as one entity to get into the higher tax bracket when they're already only one entity?
The rights I'm more interested in though are family rights, like children and hospital visits, next of kin, etc. These obviously can't be used by a single person either.
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morrowasted said: A lot of people are worried that it threatens the traditional family structure
Gay woman have already been shown to be all around better parents. 
Apparently some people aren't convinced. Also, I think it's arguably much less the lesbians that anti-gays are worried about. Just a suspicion of mine.
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BothHands
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: morrowasted]
#14665887 - 06/24/11 02:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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You're probably right. The anti gay people are still stuck in the dark ages. And as such, they feel women are so far beneath them that they could care less what we do.
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Viveka
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: BothHands]
#14665892 - 06/24/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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BothHands said: That's all well and good, but how the hell are single people even going to use the benefits? I see you're purely talking about the economic rights that married couples get. I'm not even particularly interested in those. In many cases they actually increase your taxes. I don't recall if it was Toiletduck, luvdemmushrooms, or zappa, but they explained it quite clearly. The person is unmarried specifically because it would cost more to be married. But many of those economic rights really can't be used by a single person. How's a single person going to get a family insurance plan? Or declare income as one entity to get into the higher tax bracket when they're already only one entity?
The rights I'm more interested in though are family rights, like children and hospital visits, next of kin, etc. These obviously can't be used by a single person either.
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morrowasted said: A lot of people are worried that it threatens the traditional family structure
Gay woman have already been shown to be all around better parents. 
Ah, yeah good points, and good distinctions. But why shouldn't these benefits be available to a single person? What is the legislative basis for this?
Why shouldn't a demonstrably responsible individual be allowed to adopt or visit whoever they desire in this hospital or qualify as next of kin so long as it is mutually agreed by all involved private parties that it shall be so? Why should any of these questions be marriage rights issues and not simply issues of individual liberty?
And how fucking outrageous is it that many of the leaders on the "right" support a CONSTITUTIONAL FUCKING AMENDMENT TO BAN GAY MARRIAGE???
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tyrannicalrex
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: Viveka]
#14665895 - 06/24/11 02:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Viveka said:
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BothHands said: That's all well and good, but how the hell are single people even going to use the benefits? I see you're purely talking about the economic rights that married couples get. I'm not even particularly interested in those. In many cases they actually increase your taxes. I don't recall if it was Toiletduck, luvdemmushrooms, or zappa, but they explained it quite clearly. The person is unmarried specifically because it would cost more to be married. But many of those economic rights really can't be used by a single person. How's a single person going to get a family insurance plan? Or declare income as one entity to get into the higher tax bracket when they're already only one entity?
The rights I'm more interested in though are family rights, like children and hospital visits, next of kin, etc. These obviously can't be used by a single person either.
Quote:
morrowasted said: A lot of people are worried that it threatens the traditional family structure
Gay woman have already been shown to be all around better parents. 
Ah, yeah good points, and good distinctions. But why shouldn't these benefits be available to a single person? What is the legislative basis for this?
Why shouldn't a demonstrably responsible individual be allowed to adopt or visit whoever they desire in this hospital or qualify as next of kin so long as it is mutually agreed by all involved private parties that it shall be so? Why should any of these questions be marriage rights issues and not simply issues of individual liberty?
And how fucking outrageous is it that many of the leaders on the "right" support a CONSTITUTIONAL FUCKING AMENDMENT TO BAN GAY MARRIAGE???
I know! Hear, here!
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BothHands
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#14665913 - 06/24/11 02:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Would be nice, huh?
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BothHands
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: Viveka]
#14665923 - 06/24/11 02:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Still, most of the economic rights can't be used by an individual. Unless they plan on combining their income with a roommate and declaring it as one to get into a higher tax bracket. But they'll actually cost them more, unless they're earning something crazy like 300k a year. In which case they probably wouldn't have a roommate.
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morrowasted
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: BothHands]
#14665944 - 06/24/11 02:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why is it an issue?
Ignorance + Insecurity + The current state of society [mass media, everyone thinking they are an expert, etc.]
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tyrannicalrex
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: BothHands]
#14665945 - 06/24/11 02:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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It seems like the system is designed to make people have kids! It is like they have all these juicy benefits to coerce people into having kids. More workers for the hive? We do not need anymore people now. It may have been an asset to do so at one time, but now it's not. IDK! 
It seems like they are punishing single people/people that just live together and do not want that paper bond.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: BothHands]
#14665955 - 06/24/11 02:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
BothHands said: That's all well and good, but how the hell are single people even going to use the benefits? I see you're purely talking about the economic rights that married couples get. I'm not even particularly interested in those. In many cases they actually increase your taxes. I don't recall if it was Toiletduck, luvdemmushrooms, or zappa, but they explained it quite clearly. The person is unmarried specifically because it would cost more to be married. But many of those economic rights really can't be used by a single person. How's a single person going to get a family insurance plan? Or declare income as one entity to get into the higher tax bracket when they're already only one entity?
How will they get a family plan? Easy. Pay for it. One oif the worst things that ever happened in this country was allowing employer provided health insurance to not be considered income and taxed as such. That more than anything else has probably led to this perversion. I don't think anybody wants to be in a higher tax bracket but if they do they can just send in more money.Quote:
The rights I'm more interested in though are family rights, like children and hospital visits, next of kin, etc. These obviously can't be used by a single person either.
You can name proxies and even unmarried parents have certain parental rights, although one parent is boss for decisions. Usually. Sometimes there is joint legal custody but that can be a nasty bit of business.Quote:
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morrowasted said: A lot of people are worried that it threatens the traditional family structure
Gay woman have already been shown to be all around better parents. 
Yeah. Right.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#14665965 - 06/24/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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tyrannicalrex said: It seems like the system is designed to make people have kids! It is like they have all these juicy benefits to coerce people into having kids. More workers for the hive? We do not need anymore people now. It may have been an asset to do so at one time, but now it's not. IDK! 
It seems like they are punishing single people/people that just live together and do not want that paper bond.
I don't know about the hive thing but I do think it's bullshit that they give tax breaks to people who choose to produce more burdens. Seems a bit backwards to me.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: Viveka]
#14665978 - 06/24/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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The government should not be in the business of sanctifying marriages at all. No special treatment, good or ill.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14665981 - 06/24/11 03:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
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tyrannicalrex said: It seems like the system is designed to make people have kids! It is like they have all these juicy benefits to coerce people into having kids. More workers for the hive? We do not need anymore people now. It may have been an asset to do so at one time, but now it's not. IDK! 
It seems like they are punishing single people/people that just live together and do not want that paper bond.
I don't know about the hive thing but I do think it's bullshit that they give tax breaks to people who choose to produce more burdens. Seems a bit backwards to me.
Agreed! The hive was just some pseudo jive, got to keep the conspiracy alive! LOL
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BothHands
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Re: Why is gay marriage even an issue? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14666000 - 06/24/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I thought the lowest tax bracket paid no taxes, and then you pay like 30% on the 15,000-40,000$ you make, and then pay 25% on the 40,000-100,000 you make, and so fourth. So you pay the least in the bottom bracket (nothing), but after that, you pay less money on the 3rd bracket than the 2nd. Or at least that's how I remember it in economics class.
To be honest, I don't really understand it completely. I was just told by one of you who does understand that in many cases it costs less to stay unmarried if you earn less than a certain amount.
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Yeah. Right.
Don't suppose linking the study would do much good? You're a stubborn one.
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