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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: GMOs [Re: mellowparty]
    #14654854 - 06/22/11 03:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

THEN TELL ME WHY I SHOULDN'T BE CONCERNED ABOUT GMO'S :kingcrankey:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: GMOs [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #14654861 - 06/22/11 03:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Spiderbaby said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:


if your so smart i would have thought "plant toxins" in bold listed under dna damage would be pretty self explained.  Its not like you even posted a source when you called bs on that other guy so your one to talk....:whacker:





I called bs on that other guy because he was spouting bullshit  :shrug:

And putting the word plant toxins from a quoted wikipedia article in bold is not a reasonable explanation as to why you think eating a GM plant will somehow alter your own genetic code. Eating a GM plant is no more likely to alter your genetic code than eating its non GM counterpart, unless of course the evil biotech companies decide to insert DNA encoding viruses or toxins into food crops :rolleyes:

Viveka, good point but plants can be grown in lab environments to prevent pollen escape or terminator technology can be used so viable genetic material won't be passed onto wild populations during outdoor trials so controlled experimentation with GM crops is possible. Unfortunately trials aren't always so tightly controlled so you're all stuck eating GM whether you like it or not :lol:




well maybe if you followed the thread/conversation you would understand.  We were already talking about how modifying a plants dna can have undesired results, and also doesn't go under the same research as drugs which was also mentioned.  So then someone says eating it can alter ones dna and u call bullshit then went a step further and said he needed to learn more, i point out plants can alter dna (pointing out you need to learn more)and now your playing little games like you didn't understand or w/e when it was obvious what my point was and how bad it made you look after being so harsh on that previous poster you called bs on.


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

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Offlinemellowparty
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Registered: 05/17/09
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Re: GMOs [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14654878 - 06/22/11 03:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
You should link to your CV to be taken seriously.



:agentgtfo:

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
THEN TELL ME WHY I SHOULDN'T BE CONCERNED ABOUT GMO'S :kingcrankey:



:shoosh:
:strokebeard2::tripmolecule::dna:


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OfflineSpiderbaby
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Re: GMOs [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14654886 - 06/22/11 03:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Tchan909 its the lac operon man, but that was a mean question, i take your point seriously anyway.

So we agree that the health effects are zero/negligible. I don't see GM as being a threat to the food supply, I mean many crops already planted for food are F1 hybrids, farmers can't replant the seeds from these so must buy new ones. So the food supply already sort of is in the hands to the market or big seed producing corporations.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: GMOs [Re: mellowparty]
    #14654890 - 06/22/11 03:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Are you one of those awesome human beings who thinks a mass die-off is exactly what this country needs right now? :picard:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: GMOs [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #14654909 - 06/22/11 03:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Spiderbaby said:
So we agree that the health effects are zero/negligible. I don't see GM as being a threat to the food supply, I mean many crops already planted for food are F1 hybrids, farmers can't replant the seeds from these so must buy new ones. So the food supply already sort of is in the hands to the market or big seed producing corporations.




Hence my concern. The last few years of history have done anything BUT cement my faith in the marketplace, much less such a tiny corner of it, to be predictable/stable enough to feed a country of three hundred million into the indefinite future. I can't shake the feeling that we're witnessing the foundations of a future famine on the scale of China's "Great Leap Forward."


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleSet
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Re: GMOs [Re: pouihi]
    #14654927 - 06/22/11 03:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm pro transgenics.


Find an easier way to feed the increasing shitloads of humans on this planet.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: GMOs [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14654937 - 06/22/11 03:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

And again, I'd just LOVE to be corrected so that I can stop wringing my goddamned hands over this, but so far all I've gotten are condescending jokes and molecular biology pop quizzes.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: GMOs [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14654944 - 06/22/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I See Viveka's point, but just because it happened overnight in a movie doesn't mean it'll happen overnight IRL. I think the chances of the US being rescued from famine in the nick of time by random gene mutations are about as high as the chances of Jurassic Park having been a real documentary with totally unedited footage.



Wait...maybe it's because I've been up over e24 hours but I'm confused on your stance...my point was that terminator technology is not a legitimate protection against GM seed corrupting the Earth's heirloom genetics, because that very bit of info may mutate rendering it no longer sterile, hence the JP analogy...uhhhh

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: GMOs [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14654961 - 06/22/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

To me, mass famine is a ridiculous fear to have.  The problem with americans and food is far too much, not to little.  We use most of our food feeding it to other food.  If the chips were down we could easily live off of much, much less food.

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OfflineViveka
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Re: GMOs [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #14654965 - 06/22/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


I didn't know Jurassic Park was real :omgz: . . . perhaps i should rethink my position on GM technology, do you have any links to reports on the Jurassic Park incident? :pipesmoke:



I don't recommend the sequels at all...

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: GMOs [Re: Viveka]
    #14654967 - 06/22/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

My concern is that unmodified seed stocks become scarce in the face of terminator crops, and that one of these years Monsanto might encounter manufacturing difficulties which prevent all the farms that feed America from getting the seed stock for which they've come to depend on Monsanto. We either run short on food, or have such small surpluses that food becomes too expensive for everybody to eat.

Why is this not a legitimate concern? IS THERE SOMETHING I'M MISSING? PLEASE TELL ME.


--------------------
Enlil said:
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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: GMOs [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #14654969 - 06/22/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Are you one of those awesome human beings who thinks a mass die-off is exactly what this country needs right now? :picard:



Are you saying this isn't what your country needs? I'd nuke the states without thinking about it for a femtosecond.

Quote:

Spiderbaby said:
Tchan909 its the lac operon man, but that was a mean question, i take your point seriously anyway.

So we agree that the health effects are zero/negligible. I don't see GM as being a threat to the food supply, I mean many crops already planted for food are F1 hybrids, farmers can't replant the seeds from these so must buy new ones. So the food supply already sort of is in the hands to the market or big seed producing corporations.



Technically my question is wrong. The lac operator doesn't respond, the lac repressor does but its a factor, not an element.
Kanamycin resistance cassettes and other selectable markers could escape via horizontal gene transfer and this could be a cause for concern. But then again KanR comes from Streptomyces which live in the soil so nevermind that. I wonder if its possible to engineer prion-like peptides in plant food with a delayed progression of neurodegeneration. In this way it would be too late till people become aware and everyone will be compromised by then :gameover:


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InvisibleSet
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Re: GMOs [Re: DieCommie]
    #14654972 - 06/22/11 04:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Dionili said:
If you consume GMO food products on a regular basis its bound to mess with your genetic code in the long run.




can't let this one slide

:lolwut:


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OfflineViveka
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Re: GMOs [Re: mellowparty]
    #14654980 - 06/22/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
:curbyourenthusiasm: all those people protesting against GMO don't even know what a gene is nor the central dogma in molecular biology :rolleyes:



Tell me this, smart guy, when would a tomato and a jellyfish make it in the wild?

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: GMOs [Re: mellowparty]
    #14654982 - 06/22/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
Are you saying this isn't what your country needs? I'd nuke the states without thinking about it for a femtosecond.




Well, I guess this explains everything.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: GMOs [Re: Viveka]
    #14655004 - 06/22/11 04:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Viveka said:
Quote:

mellowparty said:
:curbyourenthusiasm: all those people protesting against GMO don't even know what a gene is nor the central dogma in molecular biology :rolleyes:



Tell me this, smart guy, when would a tomato and a jellyfish make it in the wild?



probably never, so what?


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OfflineSpiderbaby
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Re: GMOs [Re: DieCommie]
    #14655011 - 06/22/11 04:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Viveka if you weren't ignoring me you could see this, its not as simple as a single point mutation re-fertilizing the GM crop. A whole section of DNA (gene) or several massive sections would have to somehow jump back into the GM organism for it to become fertile. Now that just does not happen and if you take into account the plants will only grow for one generation that leaves no possibility of the necessary mutations accumulating over time.

Tchan909, the answer is the lac operon, but as i said it was a mean tricky question so don't feel bad :stoned:

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: GMOs [Re: Viveka]
    #14655020 - 06/22/11 04:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Viveka said:
Quote:

mellowparty said:
:curbyourenthusiasm: all those people protesting against GMO don't even know what a gene is nor the central dogma in molecular biology :rolleyes:



Tell me this, smart guy, when would a tomato and a jellyfish make it in the wild?




When a third species with unique abilities facilitates it, thats when.  Organisms reproduce in many esoteric, novel ways - this is just one example of it.

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: GMOs [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #14655027 - 06/22/11 04:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0969804395000968

Quote:

Radiation induced mutations for plant selection


H. Brunner

Plant Breeding Unit, Joint FAO/IAEA Programme, IAEA Laboratories, Seibersdorf, Austria

Available online 24 July 2000.

Abstract

The successful use of plant breeding for improving crops requires the existence of genetic variation of useful traits. Unfortunately, the desired variation is often lacking. However, radiation can be used to induce mutations and thereby generate genetic variation from which desired mutants may be selected.

Mutation induction has become a proven way of creating variation within a crop variety. It offers the possibility of inducing desired attributes that either cannot be expressed in nature or have been lost during evolution. More than 1700 mutant cultivars of crop plants with significantly improved attributes such as increased yield, improved quality, disease and stress resistance, have been released worldwide in the last 30 yr. The Joint FAO/IAEA Division of Nuclear Techniques in Food and Agriculture has contributed to these achievements through the promotion of research and development in mutation breeding techniques using nuclear and related biotechnological methods. Nuclear technology in plant breeding is then transferred to Member States of the International Atomic Energy Agency and the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations through training in mutation breeding methods and the provision of technical advice. Moreover, radiation treatment services are provided to foster applications of nuclear techniques in crop improvement programmes of Member States and more specifically to render direct support to plant breeders by efficient generation of mutations. Plant materials are standardized prior to radiation exposure (usually at ±5% precision in absorbed dose) to warrant reproducibility of the induced effects within practical limits and a radiosensitivity test is implemented to affirm useful doses for applied objectives of a request.





--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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