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Offlinethebeesknees
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Registered: 06/21/11
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first pan cyan grow
    #14653882 - 06/22/11 12:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hey friends..... I have successfully completed a few bulk cube grows and would like to move on to pan cyans.

At the moment my plan is to create a malt dextrose LC from a multispore syringe.  Then I will use this LC to colonize quart jars of rye soaked in a coffee solution.  After these finish I plan to spawn them to a mixture of 60% cow pop 30% verm 10% coffee in a monotub. After colonization I will case with a peat verm mix.  In the monotub I am hoping to keep humidity relatively high until I see pins and then loosen my polyfill in order to allow for more FAE during the fruiting stage.

Now for my questions

1. I have been looking at spores for both Panaeolus cyanescens, and Panaeolus cambodginiensis.  How exactly do they compare to each other? From my research I believe that they are grown the same way but Panaeolus cambodginiensis are slightly more potent. 

2. Should I try to use agar? I have been thinking about it but it seems pans are difficult to isolate and I don't want to end up with a non meeting strain.  Should I try agar with cubes first to get the hang of it?

3. Is using a monotub a bad idea? It seems most people use trays but for cubes I have always done much better with tubs.  I was thinking 3-4 inches deep, I know recommendation is 1.5-2 but I believe the depth corresponds to surface area.

4. Can I dunk my bulk substrate between flushes?

If there are any other tips you could add it would be greatly appreciated.

-thebeesknees

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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: thebeesknees]
    #14653910 - 06/22/11 12:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

1 pan cambo grow the same as cyans but are more potent
2. dont fuck around with agar for pans you might end up with a non fruiting isolate and you should have experienced isolating a cube first off
3.bad idea imho and that depth of sub is way too deep dont go deeper than 1.5 inches with pans
4. yes dunk for sure or heavy misting

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Offlinethebeesknees
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14653994 - 06/22/11 12:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the quick reply.  Could you elaborate on why you would not use a mono tub and what you believe is optimal.  I was under the impression that with pan trays you should have 1.5 inch depth but that as you increase surface area you should also increase depth accordingly... was I misinformed?

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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: thebeesknees]
    #14654010 - 06/22/11 01:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ive never heard this depth according to surface area:shrug:  I know for a fact that mono's dont work too well for pans and wouldnt suggest something difficult like this for your first pan grow

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Offlinethebeesknees
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14654061 - 06/22/11 01:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Alright so would you recommend 1.5in trays in a shotgun?

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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: thebeesknees]
    #14654091 - 06/22/11 01:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yes this is what I suggest for sure

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Offlinethebeesknees
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14659226 - 06/23/11 12:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for all the help... One more question.. when I make my LC should I shake it or not.  I've heard pans don't really like to be shaken but I was unsure if that only applied to grains.

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OfflineManicMongrel
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: thebeesknees]
    #14660346 - 06/23/11 02:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Pan mycelia is very fragile, I dont think shaking the culture is a good idea. Considering that the oxygen level could be very low in a LC, its probably not best to shock the mycelia.

There is no point in shaking colonizing substrate, all pan grow very fast anyway. If you shake it there will be a recovering period before they start spreading again.

One thing to keep in mind with all panaeolus is that they consume a LOT of oxygen, that is why they love fluffy airy substrates. They are very prone to mold if you have bad air exchange its also the #1 reason of stalled colonization, if the circulation and CO2 ventilation is good they have pretty good resistance, especially in dung substrates.

If you want to use deep substrates you need a shallow substrate like straw with lots of big air pockets for convection currents to travel through, top surface area is also important so again keep in mind that this fungus breath heavily.


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Edited by ManicMongrel (06/23/11 02:42 PM)

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Offlinethebeesknees
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: ManicMongrel]
    #14660618 - 06/23/11 03:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the info that is very interesting.  I am wary to use straw because I have heard it contact easily.  I think I will keep my trays shadow for this grow and maybe try a mini monotub to compare results.

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Offlinethebeesknees
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: thebeesknees]
    #14660667 - 06/23/11 03:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry I meant contam not contact and shallow not shadow

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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: thebeesknees]
    #14661597 - 06/23/11 07:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

thebeesknees said:
Thanks for all the help... One more question.. when I make my LC should I shake it or not.  I've heard pans don't really like to be shaken but I was unsure if that only applied to grains.



Uhm thats bs advice yes pan myc is weak but you need to shake your LC up to break apart the glob of myc your gonna get:shrug:  Or if your high class use a stir plate

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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: UnnamedGrower]
    #14662212 - 06/23/11 09:02 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

UnnamedGrower said:
I know for a fact that mono's dont work too well for pans




Check your facts, because people do it, and there's no reason not to. I made a few monotubs for my first attempt at pan cambos, and it turned out fine. If you have a martha then I would use it, but you don't need one.


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InvisibleUnnamedGrower
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: prismism] * 1
    #14662426 - 06/23/11 09:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

prismism said:
Quote:

UnnamedGrower said:
I know for a fact that mono's dont work too well for pans




Check your facts, because people do it, and there's no reason not to. I made a few monotubs for my first attempt at pan cambos, and it turned out fine. If you have a martha then I would use it, but you don't need one.



I never sd it wont work but why would u suggest an impractical tek for a noob?  One that many exp[eoirenced gropwers have failed at?  You go chk your facts and find out that many more ppl have failed than succeded with mono's of pans?

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OfflineManicMongrel
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: prismism]
    #14664283 - 06/24/11 08:26 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm a fan of monotubs too, I dont get why so many pro cube growers complain about this. There is easy ways to grow Pan in monotubs, I did my first successful grow ever with pan in a monotub and it worked just fine through two flushes before the substrate was depleted.

I didn't make grow logs or take pictures so I cant really document my previous grows. I will next time though, so I finally have some solid stuff to refer too, so I can annoy naysayers properly.

When I grow pan in monotubs I stick to these principles and it dramatically increased my chance of success. Its all fairly standard.

1. Optimal air exchange
2. fluffy substrate with good air pockets
3. Stable temperature, in the optimal range, one temp for all(they are not cubes, all my grows points to pans actually benefit from a stable temperature. Believe what you want, but I highly recommend trying it)
4. Straw goes with dung, soak the straw in poop juice if you don't like the green meanie.
5. Stable humidity in the 90'ties, they like it damp.


--------------------
Rules and laws are guidelines, to follow them by definition is equivalent to ignoring responsibility

- Let me know if anything in my Trade List got your attention! New asian pan varieties up for trade [10.july.2013]

"Familiarity breeds contempt"

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Offlinethebeesknees
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: ManicMongrel]
    #14665268 - 06/24/11 12:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Wow this has really turned into a debate thread haha.  I guess I should probably add some straw if I wanna do a mono.  Is these a specific type of straw I should be looking for?  Also one of the main reasons I am focused on a monotub is because I actually have a very hard time fruiting cubes in trays (a little embarrassing haha) but my monos have always done stellar.

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Offlinethebeesknees
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: thebeesknees]
    #14665663 - 06/24/11 01:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So I have been looking at pan mono grows and a lot of them look quite nice it most seem to produce very small mushrooms.  One thing I am worried about is the fact that I will not be around to fan these all day.  If I set up a cool mist to my mini monos or make a Martha would I be able to get away with fanning around once a day?

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OfflineWing
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: thebeesknees]
    #14666540 - 06/24/11 04:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Don't pans need a LOT of FAE? More so that cubes?


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Offlinethebeesknees
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: Wing]
    #14666681 - 06/24/11 05:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yes that is correct

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OfflineWing
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: thebeesknees]
    #14666710 - 06/24/11 05:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I would get a good misting timer schedule going with a fan in the room. Experiment with hole size and polyfil tightness/looseness. And still fan 1-2 a day to thoroughly remove CO2.


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Offlinethebeesknees
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Re: first pan cyan grow [Re: Wing]
    #14666815 - 06/24/11 05:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When you say a mist timer do you mean a humidifier on a timer? I'm getting slightly turned off from the mono tubs right now can anyone list the pros and cons for pans in.different types of fruiting chambers?

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