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John
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Learning to program
#14652419 - 06/22/11 04:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yah another one of these threads... But I really decided I'm gonna do this. I have 4-5 hours a day for the next couple of years to devote to this so not looking at quick and easy.
Anyway I've already started with c and it's going good. The stuff seems pretty simple and logical so far. Any one have good recommendations for books or forums about c?
Also what should I learn next? I was thinking c -> java -> c++ -> ???. Like I said I'm already learning c so no changing that but I'm open to hear suggestions of either c++ or java (or something else) next.
Keep in mind my math education is weak. I have a degree in biology but just barely scraped by on math credits and it required no calc. Not that I struggled with what I did learn, rather just had too much fun in college and missed half the classes and test :x So yah the strong math foundation isn't there.
-------------------- There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.
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Doc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: John]
#14652420 - 06/22/11 04:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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C++ and Java are closely related. I'd say learn C++ before Java, unless you are targeting web apps.
C is awesome, but it takes some getting used to. More operators than keywords, and most of the keywords are about memory allocation. Anything that would be a command is a library function.
Weird but awesome.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
#14652438 - 06/22/11 05:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Language choice doesn't really matter that much, in my opinion. It's more important to learn the differences between (web) scripting, procedural programming and object oriented programming (the latter being more or less the standard for 95% of the software engineering projects these days, leaving web scripting out of consideration.) Java and C++ are particularly geared towards object oriented programming, as is Visual Basic and a host of other languages. C emerged long before object oriented came along and is used for procedural programming. PHP is a nice example of a C-like language that is specifically intended for web scripting. The syntax of Java, C++, C and PHP bear strong resemblance to each other, so you could consider them a family of languages, although each has its specific intended use.
I would suggest diving into object oriented programming. What language you choose to learn that doesn't really matter; once you've got the hang of the way of working, you can quite easily adapt to a new language through the use of syntax reference manuals.
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John
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Re: Learning to program [Re: koraks]
#14653130 - 06/22/11 09:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm afraid to try c++ until I have a full understanding of a more "simple" language and the all around basics. Like I might not fully understand and it'd be a waste.
I just noticed Stanford has full courses on youtube... so helpful here's just one example there's more in case others were dropping by for tips.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9D558D49CA734A02
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koraks
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Re: Learning to program [Re: John]
#14653150 - 06/22/11 09:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm afraid to try c++ until I have a full understanding of a more "simple" language and the all around basics.
c++ is simple enough. Just don't try creating a software suit to model the aerodynamic behavior of small particles in a nuclear blast over a densely populated city for your first project.
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Doc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: koraks]
#14653170 - 06/22/11 09:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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C is a subset of C++. It might be useful to enter and play with enough plain C programs to get the syntax down. Then when you get to C++ you won't get trapped by some common mistakes.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Learning to program [Re: koraks]
#14653241 - 06/22/11 10:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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> c++ is simple enough.
I disagree on this point. For an objective oriented language, C++ is insanely complex and very difficult to master. The complexity isn't for nothing as you gain power (freedom) and performance over other objective languages.
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Doc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Seuss]
#14653402 - 06/22/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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^^^ part of that is because it's built on top of C rather than being a thing itself. And C is weird.
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imachavel
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
#14654535 - 06/22/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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how many of these languages are compatible to use with xampp?
I want to learn programming as well, and realize that I know NOTHING about this stuff. I should have taken a class on it, oh well
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Doc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: imachavel]
#14654658 - 06/22/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Learning any language will help you learn other languages better and faster. So go get a free version of Pascal with tutorials and get crackin'.
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imachavel
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
#14654983 - 06/22/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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ok so along with xampp, download pascal? awesome
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Doc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: imachavel]
#14655047 - 06/22/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Pascal is a teaching language. It's useful also, but primarily it exists to teach good style. Learn Pascal and you're halfway to learning any other language.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
#14657127 - 06/22/11 10:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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anyone have an idea what language i would need to learn to say, be able to program a chip to do cool thangs like read humidity sensors and then do thangs based on that.
like i used to be able to program some things in VB6 or w/e but i never learned how to interact with things "outside" of the program like the os or w/e. so in this example i would be using usb or serial or something to program the chip but then id have to learn how to get the chip to control things and get inputs and stuff
i dunno i just see so many possiblitys with programing chips it seems like some cool stuff could be done
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flameclown
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Re: Learning to program *DELETED* [Re: makaveli8x8]
#14657320 - 06/22/11 11:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by flameclownReason for deletion: [this post is damn old]
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Learning to program [Re: flameclown]
#14657427 - 06/22/11 11:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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i was thinking more along the lines of a pic chip or something and rigging a humidity sensory into it like a dyi type thing not something prebuilt but thanks for the info
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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John
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Re: Learning to program [Re: John]
#14657458 - 06/22/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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anyone have a favorite IDE they'd like to recommend?
I'm using MinGW to compile atm but it's getting tedious g++ source.c -o excutable.exe cd to directory then run it... for every little change.
good for learning I guess but I already learn'd!!
code::blocks? dev c++?
-------------------- There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.
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runningfox2002
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Im using code warrior myself for a project but it has way too many picky bugs and has put a huge speed bump on it. Awesome program but im no master at it. Im not using a pic, but rather a hcs12.
As far as language, it all depends lol....assembly if you want long ass code but c or ++ would be good to simplify and etc.
As far as the intera ting between peripherals, there should be on board options whether its AD or DA, spi, sci, i2c, etc...just know what youre wanting to do, reaseach a chip for those options and find an evb to suit you.
Evbplus has alot of cool stuff(where i got mine).
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flameclown
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Re: Learning to program *DELETED* [Re: makaveli8x8]
#14657892 - 06/23/11 03:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by flameclownReason for deletion: [this post is damn old]
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Learning to program [Re: flameclown]
#14657964 - 06/23/11 04:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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PIC's are somewhat cumbersome in my opinion. Arduino is actually a module based on an ATMel microprocessor (if memory serves), and I would indeed recommend trying an ATMel. You don't need the Arduino module though. ATTiny uCPU's are easy enough to implement by yourself. They range in price from about $2 to tens of dollars.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
#14657975 - 06/23/11 04:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: ^^^ part of that is because it's built on top of C rather than being a thing itself. And C is weird.
C isn't really weird. It is actually pretty straight forward, being a simple abstraction of assembly. The complexity of C++ has nothing to do with it being built on top of C. Objective C is also built on top of C and is trivial to learn compared to C++. C++ is complex for two reasons- 1) they wanted a language that can do anything and everything and 2) they wanted a language that was highly efficient at runtime. With C++, you get both of these, but at the expense of a very complex language.
> anyone have an idea what language i would need to learn to say, be able to program a chip to do cool thangs
Depends upon the chip. Some of them use a C compiler while others require you to program in assembly (or FORTH) while others require you to use something like VHDL (or Verilog). Even the ones that require assembly are pretty simple with very limited instruction sets.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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BlimeyGrimey
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Re: Learning to program [Re: imachavel]
#14658035 - 06/23/11 05:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said: I want to learn programming as well, and realize that I know NOTHING about this stuff. I should have taken a class on it, oh well
I assume you mean software programming versus the actual programming of hardware.
Download the free version of Visual Basic and use some of the online tutorials or torrent a VB book pdf. It'll teach you the basics of syntax and the such. It'll also help you decide if programming is something youn would enjoy or not. I've known a lot of people who jumped right into C++/C# and gave up because they couldn't create anything or have a fun the first few weeks of learning. High level languages like Visual Basic ensure that you can make useful applications in a short amount of time and then learning C++ will allow you to both create solely in C++ and create libraries for use in VB to allow you to do things that aren't built into VB.
I started out on VB6 back in 1999, learned Delphi by 2001, and then C++ in 2002. Those 3 alone were enough for me to program nearly any type of software I wanted to. Wish I had to time to get back into the hobby but finishing college is my top priority at the moment.
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Edited by BlimeyGrimey (06/23/11 05:43 AM)
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Doc_T
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Arduino is a cool system, and you could use most any language. But something C-like would be ideal.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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> Download the free version of Visual Basic
Visual Basic is a waste of time and will be counterproductive to any long term interest you have in learning how to program. Visual Basic is simple to learn, but teaches bad programming practices.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Doc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Seuss]
#14658096 - 06/23/11 06:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Agreed. Download a free version of Pascal, with tutorials, and work all through them. 
Learning Pascal is like learning Latin, it's not really a "live" language, but it helps you learn other languages. (Though there's plenty of useful things you can do with Pascal.)
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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BlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores




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Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
#14658101 - 06/23/11 06:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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VB worked for me. It kept me interested enough to take the time to learn C++. 
Though, Pascal is also a good start, IMO.
Python can be fun to learn too.
-------------------- Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species. Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.
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imachavel
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where does xampp fit between all these visual basic and pascal type programming languages? xampp does my sql and php, those are all back end coding languages, and have nothing to do with what pascal or visual basic do right?
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Doc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: imachavel]
#14659263 - 06/23/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Right. But learning Pascal will help you write better sql or php. So go ahead and get started with xamp or whatever sparks your interest, then dig deeper.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
#14659402 - 06/23/11 12:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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got you
besides I just installed visual basic on my pc with windows 7, and wtf I couldn't find it, I searched for vcr which seemed to be the name it was installed under, but it just kept asking me to repair. I'll uninstall it completely later, I have no idea why it didn't work.
to be honest windows 7 has some compatibility issues with certain things, it's not supposed to but it does. I have no idea why they came out with windows vista then right afterwards came out with windows 7. almost like they were competing with themself
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Annom
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Re: Learning to program [Re: John]
#14660581 - 06/23/11 03:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Python or Java are both good languages to learn (object oriented) programming imo. C++ is much easier and less scary if you start with Java. You can start with C++, but it may scare you off.
I like Eclipse as Java IDE and Qt Creator for C++. I actually love Qt Creator! It even has Vim editor mode.
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John
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Annom]
#14662049 - 06/23/11 08:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yah these Stanford and MIT professors I'm watching are all plugging Python as such an amazing language. After I feel like I fully understand C I'll probably move on to that. Well actually some of the vids I'm watching are already teaching me python. Like you guys said language doesn't really seem to matter. It's mostly the same stuff with a little different syntax.
Already made so much money from programming. Usually I'd come home and get high right away, now I learn for a good 4 hours then get baked
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BlimeyGrimey
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Re: Learning to program [Re: imachavel]
#14665531 - 06/24/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said: to be honest windows 7 has some compatibility issues with certain things, it's not supposed to but it does. I have no idea why they came out with windows vista then right afterwards came out with windows 7. almost like they were competing with themself
Windows 7 came out so fast because M$ wanted to fix all of the problems with Vista, which had a lot of problems. Instead of giving us some type of upgrade for the shitty Vista OS, they decided to make everyone pay for M$'s own mistakes.
Here's the link to the free version of M$ Studio Express 2010 (VB,C++,C# all in one) : MS Studio 2010
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