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InvisibleJohn
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Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Learning to program
    #14652419 - 06/22/11 04:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yah another one of these threads... But I really decided I'm gonna do this. I have 4-5 hours a day for the next couple of years to devote to this so not looking at quick and easy.

Anyway I've already started with c and it's going good. The stuff seems pretty simple and logical so far. Any one have good recommendations for books or forums about c?

Also what should I learn next? I was thinking c -> java -> c++ -> ???. Like I said I'm already learning c so no changing that but I'm open to hear suggestions of either c++ or java (or something else) next.

Keep in mind my math education is weak. I have a degree in biology but just barely scraped by on math credits and it required no calc. Not that I struggled with what I did learn, rather just had too much fun in college and missed half the classes and test :x So yah the strong math foundation isn't there.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: John]
    #14652420 - 06/22/11 04:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

C++ and Java are closely related. I'd say learn C++ before Java, unless you are targeting web apps.

C is awesome, but it takes some getting used to.
More operators than keywords, and most of the keywords are about memory allocation.
Anything that would be a command is a library function.

Weird but awesome.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
    #14652438 - 06/22/11 05:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Language choice doesn't really matter that much, in my opinion. It's more important to learn the differences between (web) scripting, procedural programming and object oriented programming (the latter being more or less the standard for 95% of the software engineering projects these days, leaving web scripting out of consideration.) Java and C++ are particularly geared towards object oriented programming, as is Visual Basic and a host of other languages. C emerged long before object oriented came along and is used for procedural programming. PHP is a nice example of a C-like language that is specifically intended for web scripting. The syntax of Java, C++, C and PHP bear strong resemblance to each other, so you could consider them a family of languages, although each has its specific intended use.

I would suggest diving into object oriented programming. What language you choose to learn that doesn't really matter; once you've got the hang of the way of working, you can quite easily adapt to a new language through the use of syntax reference manuals.

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InvisibleJohn
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Re: Learning to program [Re: koraks]
    #14653130 - 06/22/11 09:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm afraid to try c++ until I have a full understanding of a more "simple" language and the all around basics. Like I might not fully understand and it'd be a waste.

I just noticed Stanford has full courses on youtube... so helpful here's just one example there's more in case others were dropping by for tips.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9D558D49CA734A02


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There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Learning to program [Re: John]
    #14653150 - 06/22/11 09:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I'm afraid to try c++ until I have a full understanding of a more "simple" language and the all around basics.



c++ is simple enough. Just don't try creating a software suit to model the aerodynamic behavior of small particles in a nuclear blast over a densely populated city for your first project.

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: koraks]
    #14653170 - 06/22/11 09:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

C is a subset of C++.
It might be useful to enter and play with enough plain C programs to get the syntax down.
Then when you get to C++ you won't get trapped by some common mistakes.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Learning to program [Re: koraks]
    #14653241 - 06/22/11 10:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

> c++ is simple enough.

I disagree on this point.  For an objective oriented language, C++ is insanely complex and very difficult to master.  The complexity isn't for nothing as you gain power (freedom) and performance over other objective languages.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Seuss]
    #14653402 - 06/22/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

^^^ part of that is because it's built on top of C rather than being a thing itself.
And C is weird.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
    #14654535 - 06/22/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

how many of these languages are compatible to use with xampp?

I want to learn programming as well, and realize that I know NOTHING about this stuff. I should have taken a class on it, oh well


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: imachavel]
    #14654658 - 06/22/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Learning any language will help you learn other languages better and faster.
So go get a free version of Pascal with tutorials and get crackin'.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
    #14654983 - 06/22/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ok so along with xampp, download pascal? awesome


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Learning to program [Re: imachavel]
    #14655047 - 06/22/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Pascal is a teaching language.
It's useful also, but primarily it exists to teach good style.
Learn Pascal and you're halfway to learning any other language.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
    #14657127 - 06/22/11 10:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

anyone have an idea what language i would need to learn to say, be able to program a chip to do cool thangs like read humidity sensors and then do thangs based on that.

like i used to be able to program some things in VB6 or w/e but i never learned how to interact with things "outside" of the program like the os or w/e. so in this example i would be using usb or serial or something to program the chip but then id have to learn how to get the chip to control things and get inputs and stuff

i dunno i just see so many possiblitys with programing chips it seems like some cool stuff could be done


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Invisibleflameclown
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Re: Learning to program *DELETED* [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14657320 - 06/22/11 11:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by flameclown

Reason for deletion: [this post is damn old]


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Learning to program [Re: flameclown]
    #14657427 - 06/22/11 11:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i was thinking more along the lines of a pic chip or something and rigging a humidity sensory into it like a dyi type thing not something prebuilt but thanks for the info


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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InvisibleJohn
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Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Re: Learning to program [Re: John]
    #14657458 - 06/22/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

anyone have a favorite IDE they'd like to recommend?

I'm using MinGW to compile atm but it's getting tedious
g++ source.c -o excutable.exe
cd to directory then run it...
for every little change.

good for learning I guess but I already learn'd!!

code::blocks? dev c++?


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Offlinerunningfox2002
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Re: Learning to program [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14657561 - 06/23/11 12:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Im using code warrior myself for a project but it has way too many picky bugs and has put a huge speed bump on it.  Awesome program but im no master at it.  Im not using a pic, but rather a hcs12. 

As far as language, it all depends lol....assembly if you want long ass code but c or ++ would be good to simplify and etc.

As far as the intera ting between peripherals, there should be on board options whether its AD or DA, spi, sci, i2c, etc...just know what youre wanting to do, reaseach a chip for those options and find an evb to suit you. 

Evbplus has alot of cool stuff(where i got mine).


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Invisibleflameclown
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Re: Learning to program *DELETED* [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14657892 - 06/23/11 03:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by flameclown

Reason for deletion: [this post is damn old]


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
Re: Learning to program [Re: flameclown]
    #14657964 - 06/23/11 04:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

PIC's are somewhat cumbersome in my opinion. Arduino is actually a module based on an ATMel microprocessor (if memory serves), and I would indeed recommend trying an ATMel. You don't need the Arduino module though. ATTiny uCPU's are easy enough to implement by yourself. They range in price from about $2 to tens of dollars.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Learning to program [Re: Doc_T]
    #14657975 - 06/23/11 04:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
^^^ part of that is because it's built on top of C rather than being a thing itself.
And C is weird.




C isn't really weird.  It is actually pretty straight forward, being a simple abstraction of assembly.  The complexity of C++ has nothing to do with it being built on top of C.  Objective C is also built on top of C and is trivial to learn compared to C++.  C++ is complex for two reasons- 1) they wanted a language that can do anything and everything and 2) they wanted a language that was highly efficient at runtime.  With C++, you get both of these, but at the expense of a very complex language.

> anyone have an idea what language i would need to learn to say, be able to program a chip to do cool thangs

Depends upon the chip.  Some of them use a C compiler while others require you to program in assembly (or FORTH) while others require you to use something like VHDL (or Verilog).  Even the ones that require assembly are pretty simple with very limited instruction sets.


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