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Offline4896744
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: broken]
    #14645781 - 06/20/11 10:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
you do realize i posted the argument your making before you did right?

if my taxes are cut, and then years later brought back to the same rate they were before the cut, i wouldn't claim my taxes were being raised. it's a very weak point of view.




They are obviously being raised. You do realize that raise means "go up" don't you? When the tax rate is one number and increases to a new higher number, that by definition is being raised.


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Offlinebroken
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: 4896744]
    #14645842 - 06/20/11 10:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

you are choosing to look at the issue that way, and are distracting form the issue by arguing about the wording.

it was a temporary tax cut, why not let it expire and return to the rates they where at before?


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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: 4896744]
    #14645861 - 06/20/11 10:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
you do realize i posted the argument your making before you did right?

if my taxes are cut, and then years later brought back to the same rate they were before the cut, i wouldn't claim my taxes were being raised. it's a very weak point of view.




But its the only view he's got:thumbup:
Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
you do realize i posted the argument your making before you did right?

if my taxes are cut, and then years later brought back to the same rate they were before the cut, i wouldn't claim my taxes were being raised. it's a very weak point of view.




They are obviously being raised. You do realize that raise means "go up" don't you? When the tax rate is one number and increases to a new higher number, that by definition is being raised.




Once again. We all get what you're saying.  You can explain it twenty times twenty different ways, we got it the first time.  Just because the outcome of a tax increase and a return to normal tax levels (in this specific case an increase) are the same doesn't mean the two means of a rise in level are anywhere near the same thing.  Its all semantics because you have nothing else to debate with because you are unable to answer basic questions that you should be able to of you have any sort of conviction I'm your beliefs.  Repeat over and over and nitpick tiny details to avoid a real discussion

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Offline4896744
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14645990 - 06/20/11 11:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
you are choosing to look at the issue that way, and are distracting form the issue by arguing about the wording.

it was a temporary tax cut, why not let it expire and return to the rates they where at before?




Because higher taxes aren't good for job creation.

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
you do realize i posted the argument your making before you did right?

if my taxes are cut, and then years later brought back to the same rate they were before the cut, i wouldn't claim my taxes were being raised. it's a very weak point of view.




But its the only view he's got:thumbup:
Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
you do realize i posted the argument your making before you did right?

if my taxes are cut, and then years later brought back to the same rate they were before the cut, i wouldn't claim my taxes were being raised. it's a very weak point of view.




They are obviously being raised. You do realize that raise means "go up" don't you? When the tax rate is one number and increases to a new higher number, that by definition is being raised.




Once again. We all get what you're saying.  You can explain it twenty times twenty different ways, we got it the first time.  Just because the outcome of a tax increase and a return to normal tax levels (in this specific case an increase) are the same doesn't mean the two means of a rise in level are anywhere near the same thing.  Its all semantics because you have nothing else to debate with because you are unable to answer basic questions that you should be able to of you have any sort of conviction I'm your beliefs.  Repeat over and over and nitpick tiny details to avoid a real discussion




What are these basic questions that I am unable to answer?


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Offlinebroken
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: 4896744]
    #14646019 - 06/20/11 11:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Because higher taxes aren't good for job creation.




i agree with that. any evidence that the tax cuts have lead to the creation of jobs on a level that would justify them? i haven't found any.
Bureau of Labor: unemployment rates 2001-2011


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Offline4896744
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: broken]
    #14646046 - 06/20/11 11:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
Quote:

iThink said:
Because higher taxes aren't good for job creation.




i agree with that. any evidence that the tax cuts have lead to the creation of jobs on a level that would justify them? i haven't found any.
Bureau of Labor: unemployment rates 2001-2011




What are you standards for the "level that would justify them"? If you think they are not justified due to potentially lost tax revenue considering our enormous deficit, it doesn't matter. A slight increase in taxes isn't going to solve shit. The only realistic way to balance the budget is through the cutting of entitlements.


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Offlinebroken
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: 4896744]
    #14646073 - 06/20/11 11:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

idk. it's like porn, 'i can't tell you what it is but i know it when i see it'


i would have to see some numbers.


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OfflineHaifisch
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: broken]
    #14646548 - 06/21/11 01:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"The late real estate mogul who reportedly once sniffed that “only the little people pay taxes”"

The real problem is that the super rich can afford to dodge taxes through various methods (my Dad was a lawyer and on several occasions had to refuse his rich clients who asked him to let them dodge taxes).

The fact that the people who have the most to spare (don't try convince me that someone who leaves $12,000,000 to a DOG needs every penny) are the ones that can give the least.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: Haifisch]
    #14646801 - 06/21/11 04:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

> The real problem is that the super rich

The irony here is that you are the super rich to the vast majority of the world.  Compared to what the average Kenyan or Somalian makes in a year, you have vast sums of money that you can easily spare.  Will you still be defending wealth redistribution when it is your massive wealth, humble as it may be, that is being redistributed to the poor in Africa and Asia?


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OfflineHaifisch
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: Seuss]
    #14646922 - 06/21/11 05:16 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> The real problem is that the super rich

The irony here is that you are the super rich to the vast majority of the world.  Compared to what the average Kenyan or Somalian makes in a year, you have vast sums of money that you can easily spare.  Will you still be defending wealth redistribution when it is your massive wealth, humble as it may be, that is being redistributed to the poor in Africa and Asia?




Completely agree with you, however I'm more of a National Socialist than a Globalist Socialist. Clearly though your point is that if, compared to others in my country, I was super-rich, I'd be reluctant to give. And while I'd say there are a lot of people in favour of higher taxes because it is convenient for them, you'll just have to trust me when I say I'm among the few who are an exception.

I'm a fan of Big Gouvernment, so keeping what I need with a little extra for how long/hard I work and for how long I've had to train to do it, and giving the rest to a Gouvernment that operates in my/my fellow citizens' best interests suits me well.

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Offline4896744
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: Haifisch]
    #14647325 - 06/21/11 08:35 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Haifisch said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> The real problem is that the super rich

The irony here is that you are the super rich to the vast majority of the world.  Compared to what the average Kenyan or Somalian makes in a year, you have vast sums of money that you can easily spare.  Will you still be defending wealth redistribution when it is your massive wealth, humble as it may be, that is being redistributed to the poor in Africa and Asia?




Completely agree with you, however I'm more of a National Socialist than a Globalist Socialist. Clearly though your point is that if, compared to others in my country, I was super-rich, I'd be reluctant to give. And while I'd say there are a lot of people in favour of higher taxes because it is convenient for them, you'll just have to trust me when I say I'm among the few who are an exception.

I'm a fan of Big Gouvernment, so keeping what I need with a little extra for how long/hard I work and for how long I've had to train to do it, and giving the rest to a Gouvernment that operates in my/my fellow citizens' best interests suits me well.




Why do you feel like it is right for you to keep a "little extra" when people in Africa are starving? All your doing is arbitrarily defining what is an "ok" amount of excess luxury to maintain.


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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Registered: 09/13/10
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: 4896744]
    #14647408 - 06/21/11 09:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

Haifisch said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> The real problem is that the super rich

The irony here is that you are the super rich to the vast majority of the world.  Compared to what the average Kenyan or Somalian makes in a year, you have vast sums of money that you can easily spare.  Will you still be defending wealth redistribution when it is your massive wealth, humble as it may be, that is being redistributed to the poor in Africa and Asia?




Completely agree with you, however I'm more of a National Socialist than a Globalist Socialist. Clearly though your point is that if, compared to others in my country, I was super-rich, I'd be reluctant to give. And while I'd say there are a lot of people in favour of higher taxes because it is convenient for them, you'll just have to trust me when I say I'm among the few who are an exception.

I'm a fan of Big Gouvernment, so keeping what I need with a little extra for how long/hard I work and for how long I've had to train to do it, and giving the rest to a Gouvernment that operates in my/my fellow citizens' best interests suits me well.




Why do you feel like it is right for you to keep a "little extra" when people in Africa are starving? All your doing is arbitrarily defining what is an "ok" amount of excess luxury to maintain.




Why should I give a fuck about Africa? Stop bringing up irrelevent shit.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14647452 - 06/21/11 09:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

> Why should I give a fuck about Africa? Stop bringing up irrelevent shit.

When you are a mod or an admin, then you can tell people what they can post about it.  Until then, if you don't like it, say nothing or refute their claim.


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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: Seuss]
    #14647910 - 06/21/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Why should I give a fuck about Africa? Stop bringing up irrelevent shit.

When you are a mod or an admin, then you can tell people what they can post about it.  Until then, if you don't like it, say nothing or refute their claim.




There is nothing to refute.  Besides the irrelevence of Africa on this discussion, his claim does nothing but prove my point.  Look at the most impoverished African countries and look at what small, weak government with no social welfare programs lead to -- shitty education, health, and overall quality of life. 

You don't seem to me refuting any of my claims, so maybe you should post nothing by your own logic. There is nothing wrong with telling somebody to stay on topic, because it is impossible to debate when the focus of a conversation keeps being altered as an outcome of having no logoccal support for your previous argument. 

There is also no logic in taking my specific national ideology and trying to turn it into a global ideology. 

So please, if you have nothing of relevence to add to the discussion, then don't add anything.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14648621 - 06/21/11 01:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Ithink wasn't even responding to you.

But just in case you are having difficulty following yet another point, it isn't about how much absolute wealth is too much or who is wealthy.  It is about comparative wealth.  The career malcontents and envy mongers in this country, such as yourself, will always point at somebody with more than them as being overly endowed while ignoring that in certain circles they themselves are heinously consumptive greed heads, selfish, with their hands out for more more more all the while contributing nothing but a low intellect whine that does nothing but espouse a take take take for me me me attitude.  If you aren't willing to open your wallet to be plundered by the African and elsewhere poor, who have far less than you, why should we pay one shred of attention to your "gimme gimme gimme rich people suck" bullshit?  Enjoy your self imposed life sentence.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14648736 - 06/21/11 02:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hey that was a fun read and all the better that I agree with it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14648824 - 06/21/11 02:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Ithink wasn't even responding to you.

But just in case you are having difficulty following yet another point, it isn't about how much absolute wealth is too much or who is wealthy.  It is about comparative wealth.  The career malcontents and envy mongers in this country, such as yourself, will always point at somebody with more than them as being overly endowed while ignoring that in certain circles they themselves are heinously consumptive greed heads, selfish, with their hands out for more more more all the while contributing nothing but a low intellect whine that does nothing but espouse a take take take for me me me attitude.  If you aren't willing to open your wallet to be plundered by the African and elsewhere poor, who have far less than you, why should we pay one shred of attention to your "gimme gimme gimme rich people suck" bullshit?  Enjoy your self imposed life sentence.





So should we start comparing our wealth to mosquitoes?  Start giving back to them because we have so much more?  If Africa wouldn't have been decimated by your all-mighty free market slave trade, maybe they wouldn't be in the position they are today.  Or maybe if their governments could control a nation properly, they wouldn't be in their position today. 

But we want to talk about comparative?  In comparison to America, I don't give a fuck about Africa.  Nowhere do you see me saying that global social welfare is in my agenda, or even that I support such a cause.  But we don't have to worry, the conservative wealthy elite will continental funding their mission trips and supply boats as long as they practice Christianity, instead of keeping their own nation from impoverishment.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14648958 - 06/21/11 02:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Ithink wasn't even responding to you.

But just in case you are having difficulty following yet another point, it isn't about how much absolute wealth is too much or who is wealthy.  It is about comparative wealth.  The career malcontents and envy mongers in this country, such as yourself, will always point at somebody with more than them as being overly endowed while ignoring that in certain circles they themselves are heinously consumptive greed heads, selfish, with their hands out for more more more all the while contributing nothing but a low intellect whine that does nothing but espouse a take take take for me me me attitude.  If you aren't willing to open your wallet to be plundered by the African and elsewhere poor, who have far less than you, why should we pay one shred of attention to your "gimme gimme gimme rich people suck" bullshit?  Enjoy your self imposed life sentence.





So should we start comparing our wealth to mosquitoes?  Start giving back to them because we have so much more?  If Africa wouldn't have been decimated by your all-mighty free market slave trade, maybe they wouldn't be in the position they are today.  Or maybe if their governments could control a nation properly, they wouldn't be in their position today.




Mosquitoes?  :rofl2:  What does any of that have to do with you being a greedy person?
Quote:



But we want to talk about comparative?  In comparison to America, I don't give a fuck about Africa.  Nowhere do you see me saying that global social welfare is in my agenda, or even that I support such a cause. 




That's because it is all about you you you and what you can get get get from me me me.  I'd rather light a cigar with a C-note than give anybody like you a quarter or a job.  That's right.  I try to eliminate people like you in the hiring process and if I screw up I fire them right away.  Fact.
Quote:

But we don't have to worry, the conservative wealthy elite will continental funding their mission trips and supply boats as long as they practice Christianity, instead of keeping their own nation from impoverishment.




Greedy greedy greedy.


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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14649183 - 06/21/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Mosquitoes? What does any of that have to do with you being a greedy person?"

What does a starving person in Africa have to do with me?  Nothing, that is the job for their government.  You say you wont fill the needs of Americans, but you are talking about the needs of people on another continent?  Atleast you used to be coherent in your argument, now you are grasping for anything.


" That's because it is all about you you you and what you can get get get from me me me. I'd rather light a cigar with a C-note than give anybody like you a quarter or a job. That's right. I try to eliminate people like you in the hiring process and if I screw up I fire them right away. Fact"

Oh the irony, you keep saying its all about ME when really it is all about YOU.  "People like you" how many times do I have to tell you to man up and PM me and find out a little about me?  You'll come to find that I'm nothing that you keep portraying me. "I'd rather light a cigar c-note.."  icing on the cake.

" Greedy greedy greedy."

:facepalm3:

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Offline4896744
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Registered: 03/06/10
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14649853 - 06/21/11 06:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You'll come to find that I'm nothing that you keep portraying me.




Then maybe you should learn to write and think coherently.


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