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OfflineJenherself
Just anotherchick

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Alberta, Canada in a box
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: pattern]
    #1464392 - 04/16/03 03:49 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

In December of 1997 thousands of delegates from 160 countries came together to hammer out a plan to stop global warming. Their goal was to cut back the greenhouse gases that human's were pumping into the atmosphere dramatically.
In 1997 Canada was only pumping 6% of those emissions into the air. Canada has cut back to 2% now, which is very minimal compared to the other countries.
I can't understand why Chrieten has ratified the Kyoto Accord. The states haven't even signed it and they produce 20% if not more of the gases into the air.
The fact is that if the Kyoto Accord becomes enforced, Canada's economy will be fucked. Especially in the western provinces because of the oil companies.
Of course, it won't only effect industry related companies, it will effect each and every taxpayer in Canada. Cost of fuel will soar. At least to $1.10 a litre. Taxes will increase. Other industries will suffer as well in layoffs and cutbacks as a direct result. Noones job will be safe. As a matter of fact they predict about 450,000 jobs will be lost in Canada.
There are other options to help the environment. I won't deny that we need cleaner air and that we need to protect our earth, especially for future generations. But there are other solutions without having to cut so many jobs and raise so many taxes. I am a young adult that is struggling financially as is, and I know I'm not the only one out there, if they raise taxes, its going to make a big impact on our lives. There are many people just like me that are trying to make it in this world, and its our generation thats gotta work at making a difference. I moved to Alberta from Manitoba. Let me tell you there is a big difference in the economy out here compared to there. I will agree that Alberta is a 'rich' province. But I still think that Chrieten is more greedy than the Albertans out here. I dunno I just hate the guy. Everything in this post probably has nothing to do with the topic, but I posted it anyways.


--------------------
TO EACH THEIR OWN
****JENNY****

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OfflineJenherself
Just anotherchick

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Alberta, Canada in a box
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1464419 - 04/16/03 03:55 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Alberta sucks? Gee thats negative...I was also at that peace rally. I also did not see rocks being thrown...however Calgary had thousands of people show up for that peace rally that day, and I'm very proud to say I was apart of it. We can't suck that much if we don't agree with war and choose to stand up for what we believe in.


--------------------
TO EACH THEIR OWN
****JENNY****

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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 15 days
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1464431 - 04/16/03 04:02 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

The Canadian government is good to me, I'm satisfied paying a small amount of my low earnings to get good health care, police, etc. As a plus I end up getting most of my taxes back at the end of every year.

I disagree with the philosophy of "money rules", and that "equal percentages equals fairness". For example you tax a guy making a million a year for %50, and that guy is still doing great. You tax a guy making $30,000 a year for %50, and now his life is alot worse. No matter how much money you have, you are still ONE PERSON, you get ONE VOTE, I dont believe economic status should earn anyone more rights.

Quote:

They do not want to pay more taxes than John Doe who works at the burger joint simply because they do not deserve to get punished for their success and there is nothing wrong with feeling that way




I feel no sympathy for the rich and their "punishment". Boo-hoo! If everyone had to pay equal taxes, the system wouldn't work, because people are not paid equally. Taxation by its very nature is not a system of fairness, how can you tax John Doe at the burger joint for the same amount as Bill Gates? Either you put John Doe in jail for not paying as much as Bill Gates, or you make Bill Gates pay $2000 a year. What a revolution that would be for humanity. The government would collapse from no funds. I guess if you dont like your government (haha Americans) that sounds great.

Quote:

The rich are the best sources for reinvestment and yet the government takes their money away to provide for the people who decide not to try in life.




Some people try in life, but they aren't trying to make money. Is a guy working on wall-street is more valuable than a doctor, even though the doctor's goal in life is to save lives, and not to be a millionaire? Not every man sets his goals on money.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom

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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 28 days
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: Jenherself]
    #1464433 - 04/16/03 04:02 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

No...I would say you nailed it...


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

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InvisibleThorA
Anti-Theist OVERLORD
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 10,017
Loc: Iceland
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1464457 - 04/16/03 04:10 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Can you blame Alberta and the west for being pissed off at the power provinces in the east?

We've been shafted in the past as Rono mentioned, thats still fresh in our minds (NEP).

Klein is doing all this 'rattling' because he wants more for Alberta in the government, since we don't have the population we in the west feel like our voices are not heard.

We especially hate how all this money is going to the east and we still don't get anything in return, just the typical crap in federal elections and feeling like outsiders by the idiot liberals.

Like the suggestion for an American style senate, the liberals have fought this idea because they don't want to give away any power to the west.

The vast majority of the west doesn't want to seperate from Canada, those are only a minority.. However the vast majority of westerners are fed up with Ottawa and power disparity that exists.

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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 15 days
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: Thor]
    #1464524 - 04/16/03 04:26 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Ok here's the plan Albertans:

Outbreed Ontario. Have LOTS of kids.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1464528 - 04/16/03 04:26 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Has anyone considered how the rich get that way. It is because they work harder and use every ounce of intellect that they were born with.

Funny. In real life it really matters little how hard you work. its who you know, what you have, and your determination. But really how hard you work is only a small desciding factor. Having money to begin with and knowing people go alot further than "determinaton" alone.



The rich that are born into money quickly loose their source as they can not compete with more successful business entreprenuers.

How did you come to this conclusion?


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Offlinediggitydankman
No longer aCannabisConnoisseur

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Michgan
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: pattern]
    #1464534 - 04/16/03 04:27 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

With your logic the rich will be funding the unsuccessful, unintelligent, unproductive people (yes there are exceptions). Why should this ever happen? It is in essence funding a devolution of society. Also do you truly think any government needs the amount of funds that they raise. A government does not need welfare or insurance. US Social Security policy is a joke as we make a measely four percent on the income put towards it (and there will be absolutely no money around to fund my genereation any way.) In fact the only thing governments need to do is provide national and local security. Roads and other transpotation is an option, but would easily be supplied by an industry if needed. Welfare is a way to rob from the rich to give to the poor, and any way you look at it stealing is stealing. The end can never justify the means or we would have a rampant society trying to prevent instead of produce. And when production hits the bottom, the economy is fucked. The more producton a nation has the better there economy will do. It is that simple. With less government funds they will have to cut jobs (oh no), and guess where those people are going to go, they are going to go produce products and provide services to better the economy. I know a very good deal about economics and this is the simplest way that I have ever come across to better global and local economy not to mention social aspects.
A tax of no more than ten to fifteen percent is enough for any government to provide the basic necessities for its citizens.
When in doubt just remember:
"Regulations ruin confidence"
MJK


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: z@z.com]
    #1464547 - 04/16/03 04:30 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I do define excessive taxation (especially when one group is taxed more than anotehr) and wealth redistribution (ie welfare) as theft.




If one group has more than another doesn't it stand to reason they should contribute proportionately? Or should tax for the year be a dollar cus thats what the bums could contribute, and its unfair for me to pay more than a bum even if i make a hundred times what he does.

What about wealth distribution...ie: health care? roads? essential services? employment insurance?...you've obviously never needed welfare.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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OfflineJenherself
Just anotherchick

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Alberta, Canada in a box
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1464550 - 04/16/03 04:33 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

My advice, when you get a new job, don't sign the part of the contract that asks if you would like taxes deducted of your cheque, therefore the government doesn't get any of our money and as far as I know its not illegal to do so....some dude told me that once, not sure if it would actually work though.


--------------------
TO EACH THEIR OWN
****JENNY****

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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1464563 - 04/16/03 04:37 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

If one group has more than another doesn't it stand to reason they should contribute proportionately? Or should tax for the year be a dollar cus thats what the bums could contribute, and its unfair for me to pay more than a bum even if i make a hundred times what he does.

Sorry I should have been more clear. It should be a percentage of income.

What about wealth distribution...ie: health care? roads? essential services? employment insurance?...you've obviously never needed welfare.

People can provide their own health care. That is what insurance is for. If they don't plan ahead maybe some kind sole will help them pay for their health needs maybe one won't. The point is that it's not my problem. Welfare on the federal level is a joke and is abused constantly. It should be left as an option for the states.
I have no idea what essential services is. Perhaps you can enlighten me and tell me why they are "essential".


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: Jenherself]
    #1464566 - 04/16/03 04:38 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

They will come arrest you. Happened to someone I know.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinediggitydankman
No longer aCannabisConnoisseur

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Michgan
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1464581 - 04/16/03 04:41 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

See that you left out part of my original post. If you read the rest you may understand it better. Efficency in redistribution of wealth from generation to generation would be far superior if the government did not involve themselves in affairs in which they do not understand. Instead of letting failing businesses die they try to revive them by giving them tax breaks, donations, etc. What good is giving tax dollars (breaks) to a failure. That is like giving a technical job to the worst candidate, and in both cases it does absolutely no good. In fact, in most cases it will do more harm than anything. I do not belive that everyone should pay a standard lump-sum for a tax, I do belive however that the percentage should be constant for all, as that is the only fair way. Due to the constant percentage the rich will pay more taxes than the poor, but it will still be the same percentage of income.


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: z@z.com]
    #1464594 - 04/16/03 04:45 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

If one group has more than another doesn't it stand to reason they should contribute proportionately? Or should tax for the year be a dollar cus thats what the bums could contribute, and its unfair for me to pay more than a bum even if i make a hundred times what he does.

Sorry I should have been more clear. It should be a percentage of income.




In that case i agree. I want to say the rich should pay more, but if i had money i would be against that, and so a percentage should be paid. I feel a little different though on people born with money....people should earn what they have.



Quote:

What about wealth distribution...ie: health care? roads? essential services? employment insurance?...you've obviously never needed welfare.

People can provide their own health care. That is what insurance is for. If they don't plan ahead maybe some kind sole will help them pay for their health needs maybe one won't. The point is that it's not my problem. Welfare on the federal level is a joke and is abused constantly. It should be left as an option for the states.
I have no idea what essential services is. Perhaps you can enlighten me and tell me why they are "essential".




Well being a 21 year old healthy male, i am also against paying for others health problems ie: health care, and for peoples laziness ie: welfare. I am not really decided about the health care though....im against medical practices now...not contributing to the health of others.

Essential services are things like doctors, police, firemen, garbage men, etc...


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: z@z.com]
    #1464600 - 04/16/03 04:47 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

They will come arrest you. Happened to someone I know.




Or just charge you for the entire time you didn't pay....plus "interest"!...happened to my dads small business.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Offlinediggitydankman
No longer aCannabisConnoisseur

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Michgan
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: Jenherself]
    #1464601 - 04/16/03 04:48 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

They will not necessarily come arrest you. If you make under $10,000 a year then you can file "exempt" for federal taxes (not Soc Sec) and will never have to pay the taxes. This only works for federal welfare and state income and welfare will still be stolen from you.

I have always been looking for a lawyer who would file a lawsuit against the feds for their incessant stealing of my income, I am begining to give up in my search as they have already gone through law school and have been corrupted by it. It is such a shame.


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1464606 - 04/16/03 04:51 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

So your saying that giving tax breaks to new companies helps them establish themselves and benefit the economy, while helping failing business will only sometimes help, but more likely only delays its failure?

I agree. People can always find another job, or create a new business or idea....


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Offlinediggitydankman
No longer aCannabisConnoisseur

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Michgan
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1464610 - 04/16/03 04:52 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Exactly, but not necessarily a tax break, just less taxes from the start.


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool

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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 15 days
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1464611 - 04/16/03 04:52 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Now you are making me wax philosophical!  What is your vision of the future?

The destiny of humanity is to work making products to sell to each other, while rich people sit around telling them what to make?  I don't see it that way.  Let's say you are rich and you have kids.  Your kids won't ever have to work for money, if they are wise.  Now the goal for these kids in their life is not money, now that their parents have already accomplished it for them.  These kids could just sit around doing nothing.  Or they could make more money that they don't need.  Or they could decide to make a website like the Shroomery for others to use for free.  Money makes the world go round, but what people do in their free time is what makes the world worth living in.

I'm also well-studied in economics, in university as well.  But the only thing I've learnt is that its all bullshit.  Unless you run the economy it doesnt matter if you think its morally right to tax people or not... taxation is the reality here.  Why not make the best use of it that we can?  Same with government.  Governments exists and instead of trying to bring them down, we should use them as tools in the most productive way possible.

Quote:

  A tax of no more than ten to fifteen percent is enough for any government to provide the basic necessities for its citizens.





I agree, thats probably true.  The government is bloated (ie federal government) in Canada and especially in America.  Canada on the other hand doesnt waste massive amounts of money on the military and world domination, we spend it on making life better for ourselves.

Even a flat tax of 15% for all wont work.  It sounds nice in theory.  But in real life you are going to have a poor person giving up a vital part of his earnings.  There has to be adjustments made based on wage earnings and quality of life factors. 

Seeing as how there are alot more poor people than rich people, shouldnt we sacrifice the rich people's money to make life better for all the poor?  :tongue: 


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Alberta is Canada's delinquent punk of a province [Re: pattern]
    #1464625 - 04/16/03 04:57 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Seeing as how there are alot more poor people than rich people, shouldnt we sacrifice the rich people's money to make life better for all the poor?  :tongue:   




Sounds good to me!


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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