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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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astronomers i need help
#14640586 - 06/19/11 11:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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so wtf is planet x/nibiru supposed to be? don't you think someone would notice a planet approaching? it seems a little ridiculous to think that's the reason for the seeming faster climate change. any astronomer opinions? idk much about the whole thing, it seems crazy to me.
-------------------- SCIENCE!!! If NIST didn't even investigate whether explosives were used, how can we trust their investigation? It's a rule whenever explosions are heard. Though I Laugh EyegasmArt.com anonymous: without name Anonymous: a group with a name don't be fooled, have a revolution on your own terms.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Its nothing at all with respect to astronomy.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,071
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Its bogus. Was bogus the first time in 2003, this time its still bogus.
Quote:
Article Posted: May 05, 2003 By: David Morrison
The wild stories about an approaching planet or comet are false!
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For months, weird stories have circulated on the Internet predicting the close passage by Earth this month of a Planet X sometimes called "Niburu", or in some versions a giant comet. I have even seen it linked to both Kuiper Belt Objects (KBOs) and Near Earth Asteroids (NEAs), although why either of these is relevant is not clear to me. This news note is for those who may have heard such rumors and wondered if there was any reality to them. The simple answer is that these are lies. There is no such object. Also, there have been no unusual levels of earthquakes or solar flares or any other of the supposed precursors of terrestrial calamity. Contrary to what you see on some of these websites, nothing unusual is happening and scientists are not worried by such supposed events. Even more to the point, it is already evident that there is no large comet or looming planet bearing down on the Earth. [For those who might want to see this nonsense, try Google searches on "Niburu" or "Nancy Leider"] If you want the real story on Nibiru or Planet X, check out the following website
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/planetx/index.html
I wonder how long this fiction can be sustained in the face of clear evidence that it is not true? The absence of the May apparition of a planet or giant comet looming large in the world's skies should be pretty obvious, and the usual story about a government cover-up would not seem to apply. I suppose, however, that the people who are expounding this nonsense will find some excuses to explain why their predictions did not materialize.
(NASA) link
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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sweet thanks, seemed ridiculous from the start. those links cleared things up.
now about the magnetic pole shift? i had heard it moves before i heard any of this nibiru stuff.
http://modernsurvivalblog.com/pole-shift-2/alarming-noaa-data-rapid-pole-shift/
any opinions or links?
-------------------- SCIENCE!!! If NIST didn't even investigate whether explosives were used, how can we trust their investigation? It's a rule whenever explosions are heard. Though I Laugh EyegasmArt.com anonymous: without name Anonymous: a group with a name don't be fooled, have a revolution on your own terms.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,071
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Y'know, thats a new one to me. The type of website it is on makes me skeptical, especially those cheap google earth images I couldn't find much info on it, this article talks about it some, but doesn't do the best job debunking it.
Geologists Debunk Apocalyptic Prophecy
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--- But according to scientists, there is no factual basis for any of these claims.
“Rapid physical movements of the entire crust in polar regions is a suggestion with which I am not familiar,” Brown said. “However, it sounds like fantasy, not science. As for the 2012 ‘doomsday’ date, this is clearly a corrupt interpretation of Mayan calendrics.”
Prof. William White, earth and atmospheric science, agreed. “It sounds to me like a nut fringe idea that is completely without scientific basis,” White said. “On the long list of things we have to worry about over the next three years, this will certainly be at the very bottom of the list.”
Despite the lack of scientific backing, many people are still preparing for a possible apocalypse in 2012. Celebrity believers, according to several websites, include Mel Gibson and Lil’ Wayne. Many websites offer their explanations for how or why the Earth will end, with some even selling “survival” items from potable water to flashlights and gas masks.
I'll keep researching it, apparently the poles do shift, but not at a rate that would effect us in the near future.
Oh and to prove I am an astronomer, here is a picture of the moon I took with my telescope tonight 

Also, check out my new avatar!
Edited by moonrockmushy (06/20/11 01:35 AM)
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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nice pic man. see any alien structures yet? hehe.
and survivalist doesn't equal doomsaying, i know from experience. just look at bear grylls actually. they seemed to be basing those maps on NOAA data. thanks for your help
-------------------- SCIENCE!!! If NIST didn't even investigate whether explosives were used, how can we trust their investigation? It's a rule whenever explosions are heard. Though I Laugh EyegasmArt.com anonymous: without name Anonymous: a group with a name don't be fooled, have a revolution on your own terms.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,071
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No structures yet, they're on the back I hear . I always think I see UFOs, the stars twinkle all these different colors and through the scope you notice their motion relative to the earth much easier. Then I look it up and it is a star, or a planet or a plane, w/e. It really gets my heart pumping, and I am learning the constelations. I try to focus my curiousity on the concrete rather than speculation, or at least as much as possible 
If you like reading these highly speculative articles, with very limited sets of data present, I have no problem, but this is the Sci&Tech forum, not the conspiracy theory forum. The author finds this so 'Alarming', and NOAA apparently does not. Does a website containing that many ads for survival gear have a motive to incite unnecessary fear?
Edited by moonrockmushy (06/20/11 02:24 AM)
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Abnormal
Gamma goblin



Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 110
Loc: Bat country
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The magnetic field is always moving, fluctuating, and every 300 000 years or so it flips. (magnetic) north becomes (magnetic) south, and vice versa. We know this by looking at how magnetic minerals in molten rock (lava) were aligned in old rocks as it cooled and hardened. Even tho the last pole reversal was 780 000 years ago, there is no particular reason to believe one is imminent, and even if it was, there is little reason to fret. The process takes thousands of years, and even tho things might get a little weird with magnetic poles popping up around the globe, the magnetic field will still be around to protect us from the sun's radiation.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
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Re: astronomers i need help [Re: Abnormal]
#14641298 - 06/20/11 04:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Abnormal said: The magnetic field is always moving, fluctuating, and every 300 000 years or so it flips.
There's quite a bit of variation in the periods between field flips. Seems to range from 10kyears to >10Myears.
Quote:
Even tho the last pole reversal was 780 000 years ago, there is no particular reason to believe one is imminent, and even if it was, there is little reason to fret.
Well, truth is: we don't really know. We don't know when it'll happen, and we don't know what the effects will be. The only thing we do know, is that over the past century or so, the movement of the magnetic poles has accelerated. Other than that, we're basically stabbing in the dark.
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Abnormal
Gamma goblin



Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 110
Loc: Bat country
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Re: astronomers i need help [Re: koraks]
#14641346 - 06/20/11 04:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said: There's quite a bit of variation in the periods between field flips. Seems to range from 10kyears to >10Myears.
Ah yeah, 300 000 years is about average tho.
Quote:
koraks said: Well, truth is: we don't really know. We don't know when it'll happen, and we don't know what the effects will be. The only thing we do know, is that over the past century or so, the movement of the magnetic poles has accelerated. Other than that, we're basically stabbing in the dark.
As I said, there is no particular reason to believe a shift is imminent. The fossil record shows no significant effects on living organisms when these events occur, so it's fair to assume we won't get fried by the sun IF it suddenly happened.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
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Re: astronomers i need help [Re: Abnormal]
#14641363 - 06/20/11 04:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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That's true, but it's unclear what the effects will be on the technology we use. It resembles the y2k issue: you know that there's a potential impact, but it's impossible to tell what it's going to be until it actually happens.
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: No structures yet, they're on the back I hear . I always think I see UFOs, the stars twinkle all these different colors and through the scope you notice their motion relative to the earth much easier. Then I look it up and it is a star, or a planet or a plane, w/e. It really gets my heart pumping, and I am learning the constelations. I try to focus my curiousity on the concrete rather than speculation, or at least as much as possible 
If you like reading these highly speculative articles, with very limited sets of data present, I have no problem, but this is the Sci&Tech forum, not the conspiracy theory forum. The author finds this so 'Alarming', and NOAA apparently does not. Does a website containing that many ads for survival gear have a motive to incite unnecessary fear? 
i doubt a government organization would admit something was alarming, besides their own terror campaign, just look at japanese gov response to fukushima radiation.
survivalism is something people have forgotten about partly because grocery stores exist and not many realize there will be times, when is a different matter, without access to food from them. i doubt it's to get people to pay them. have you ever run a website? if you don't put some sort of ad on it, there is very little chance it will continue to run as you waste your time adding things to it. unless you have other funding to live on of course.
-------------------- SCIENCE!!! If NIST didn't even investigate whether explosives were used, how can we trust their investigation? It's a rule whenever explosions are heard. Though I Laugh EyegasmArt.com anonymous: without name Anonymous: a group with a name don't be fooled, have a revolution on your own terms.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,071
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C'mon, you really can't see how this guy would have an agenda? I know the gov't can be fucked up, I wont argue that, but these are geological scientests at NOAA, not politicians. There are plenty of problems we are facing that they are open about, but nobody seems to care about those.
I don't see how you can make claims based on their data, then call their credibility into question. It seems to me that your distrust of the government is clouding your judgement. I don't mean this as a personal insult, this is something I have had problems with myself. As I actually became interested in the science behind this stuff, rather than justifying my view of the world, I began to realize that it is much more complicated and fucked up than I could ever imagine.
You don't just make wild claims like this without starting from the ground up, otherwise what is the point? Sure, this might happen, God might also fart and blow us all off the earth, I don't really have good proof of either. Everything we know about the world comes from science, not blind speculation.
Taking one slice of data and drawing conclusions is not science.
I'm interested in this sort of stuff (science), I don't have any sort of qualifications, but in your case that will probably make me more trustworthy, ? I will continue to look into the polar shift issue, and if I come to any conclusions, I will share them with you.
Survivalism is cool too. If I wanted to know how to survive in the woods, it would come in handy. I guess it is even sort of a 'science', I just don't really see how it would help me understand if the earth is going to flip over or not. For that I will just go with the people who study this stuff, rather than Mel Gibson and Lil' Wayne.
Quote:
Despite the lack of scientific backing, many people are still preparing for a possible apocalypse in 2012. Celebrity believers, according to several websites, include Mel Gibson and Lil’ Wayne.
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: C'mon, you really can't see how this guy would have an agenda? I know the gov't can be fucked up, I wont argue that, but these are geological scientests at NOAA, not politicians. There are plenty of problems we are facing that they are open about, but nobody seems to care about those.
I don't see how you can make claims based on their data, then call their credibility into question. It seems to me that your distrust of the government is clouding your judgement. I don't mean this as a personal insult, this is something I have had problems with myself. As I actually became interested in the science behind this stuff, rather than justifying my view of the world, I began to realize that it is much more complicated and fucked up than I could ever imagine.
You don't just make wild claims like this without starting from the ground up, otherwise what is the point? Sure, this might happen, God might also fart and blow us all off the earth, I don't really have good proof of either. Everything we know about the world comes from science, not blind speculation.
Taking one slice of data and drawing conclusions is not science.
I'm interested in this sort of stuff (science), I don't have any sort of qualifications, but in your case that will probably make me more trustworthy, ? I will continue to look into the polar shift issue, and if I come to any conclusions, I will share them with you.
Survivalism is cool too. If I wanted to know how to survive in the woods, it would come in handy. I guess it is even sort of a 'science', I just don't really see how it would help me understand if the earth is going to flip over or not. For that I will just go with the people who study this stuff, rather than Mel Gibson and Lil' Wayne.
Quote:
Despite the lack of scientific backing, many people are still preparing for a possible apocalypse in 2012. Celebrity believers, according to several websites, include Mel Gibson and Lil’ Wayne.

the government has a chain of command and continuity to think about. i don't distrust government but that doesn't mean i trust them to warn me about things. i also dont trust media to alert me of dangers.
i can see the website has an agenda, but it's hard to prove that it's profit.
speaking of what science is, have you clicked the word in my sig?
observation breeds speculation breeds experimentation.
subjectivity arises from objectivity and vice versa. equally important.
No hard feelings here for anything. Just making sure you know that.
thanks, linkamathingy
-------------------- SCIENCE!!! If NIST didn't even investigate whether explosives were used, how can we trust their investigation? It's a rule whenever explosions are heard. Though I Laugh EyegasmArt.com anonymous: without name Anonymous: a group with a name don't be fooled, have a revolution on your own terms.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,071
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Of course, I'm cool with you and whatever you believe . I haven't got it all figured out myself, but that website just made my BS detector go off like crazy, and I couldn't really find anyone else making the same claims. Even if its not 'Alarming', it doesn't mean its not something worth investigating, and I've leaned some things in the process. To me though, just the poor quality of the article and the way it is written like a tabloid article calls it into question right off the bat...
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Will the effects affect us noticeably or in a bad way? Time will tell I suppose, but at the current rate there will no doubt be direct effects on many systems in the years ahead, many of them nuisance issues such as documentation changes while others will likely be more serious.
Also, idunno about this -
Quote:
you: i don't distrust government
I wouldn't recomend trusting the government, but I wouldn't lay any blame on it either. I mean, what is the government really, just people and ideas. These are the things I think need to change, and grouping them together doesn't help for me. We need to focus on understanding eachother as well as the world around us.
Edited by moonrockmushy (06/21/11 03:28 AM)
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smoke dank



Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 390
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Nibiru doesn't exist. Nobody in the scientific community takes it seriously. We would be able to tell if a large planet sized object was flying around the edge of our solar system. We could tell if Nibiru existed because its gravitational field would interact with other planets, planetoids, asteroids, comets, etc... We would also be able to tell by its heat signature. Infrared telescopes can detect any planet sized object in our solar system. Besides their are no reported sightings of planet Nibiru... ever. If Nibiru orbits the sun, it would have been noticed at some point in human history.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: astronomers i need help [Re: smoke dank]
#14658872 - 06/23/11 11:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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There is a large segment of the shroomery population that distrusts nearly everything that comes from any form of 'authority'. They will claim that astronomers are funded by the government and thus are lying to us as part of some nefarious plot.
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Rashelio
Stranger

Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 11
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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It comes from the imagination of Alexander Sitchin who wrote in many books that everything in Sumerian mythology was real.There are a few clay tablets which he claims depicts the sun and the known planets in our solar system with an extra planet.The extra planet is the Niburu youre asking about.
I dont recall which of these is true, probably both, but from my memory he was also a science fiction writer or his writings of ancient Sumeria were said to be science fiction by others who study that field of archaeology.
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ToTheSummit
peregrinus



Registered: 08/22/99
Posts: 9,127
Loc: Las Vegas
Last seen: 2 days, 15 hours
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Re: astronomers i need help [Re: DieCommie]
#14667734 - 06/24/11 09:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: There is a large segment of the shroomery population that distrusts nearly everything that comes from any form of 'authority'. They will claim that astronomers are funded by the government and thus are lying to us as part of some nefarious plot.
Hence the "Conspiracies and Cover-Ups" forum. We had to find somewhere they could go since they kept cluttering up so many other forums!
-------------------- You invented the wheel....You push the motherfucker!!
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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Re: astronomers i need help [Re: ToTheSummit]
#14668289 - 06/24/11 11:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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authority isn't infallible, and authority tends to swing the title around to justify itself. that's probably why people dislike it.
that tinfoil hat shit is derogatory. it's like calling someone a nigger or spick.
it's better to trust authority with a grain of salt, than to just outright trust it.
i am also sufficiently sure the current seeming climate change isn't caused by Nibiru, and not by CO2. Worship the Sun.
-------------------- SCIENCE!!! If NIST didn't even investigate whether explosives were used, how can we trust their investigation? It's a rule whenever explosions are heard. Though I Laugh EyegasmArt.com anonymous: without name Anonymous: a group with a name don't be fooled, have a revolution on your own terms.
Edited by linkamathingy (06/24/11 11:09 PM)
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,071
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Quote:
that tinfoil hat shit is derogatory. it's like calling someone a nigger or spick.
I think that might be taking it a bit far. Someone's race has nothing to do with their beliefs, and just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean they hate you.
I agree that you shouldn't trust authority, and I myself have some pet theories that many would consider 'fringe', but the whole frustration with the 'tin foil hat' people is their inherent distrust of anyone who disagrees with their view of the world. They do not take the time to actually find out where the other side is coming from, so even if they are right, they end up looking ridiculous, crazy even. MLB controlling your mind with satellites, hey aluminium foil works too and make sure it is at least four layers thick! 
The fact that you are seeking out alternative answers to these questions is good, you are well on the way to being a bonafide skeptic, see its not like calling you a racial slur, I was once a tin foil hatter and look at me now, I own a telescope 
Quote:
i am also sufficiently sure the current seeming climate change isn't caused by Nibiru, and not by CO2. Worship the Sun.
So what is your theory on why the Earth is warming? I'm assuming you're onto the whole HAARP thing by now?
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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natural climate change. i'm actually not convinced that there is a warming trend. here's a site i've read a little of recently: http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/
haarp is weird. it's supposed to be based on tesla death ray technology but i haven't researched it well enough to say what it can and can't do.
-------------------- SCIENCE!!! If NIST didn't even investigate whether explosives were used, how can we trust their investigation? It's a rule whenever explosions are heard. Though I Laugh EyegasmArt.com anonymous: without name Anonymous: a group with a name don't be fooled, have a revolution on your own terms.
Edited by linkamathingy (06/25/11 12:39 PM)
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
linkamathingy said: authority isn't infallible,
Has anyone challenged this position, or is this just a strawman your beating up on since you dislike diecommie's criticism yet lack a valid reply?
Quote:
and authority tends to swing the title around to justify itself. that's probably why people dislike it.
Does it? I don't know, the papers in the scientific literature are written the same way whether penned by an undergrad or an expert, and often they contain no titles nor information on the author's position- its irrelevant.
What are you basing this off of, can you back it up? I see far more criticism of this notion than I do any legitimate basis for it. Seems to me that some just dislike the idea of authority and search out ways to criticize it, valid or not.
Quote:
that tinfoil hat shit is derogatory. it's like calling someone a nigger or spick.
So what?
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it's better to trust authority with a grain of salt, than to just outright trust it.
Has anyone argued you should "outright trust it"? Seems like your putting forth a false choice with an irrelevant alternative. This isn't helpful.
Quote:
moonrockmushy said: the whole frustration with the 'tin foil hat' people is their inherent distrust of anyone who disagrees with their view of the world. They do not take the time to actually find out where the other side is coming from, so even if they are right, they end up looking ridiculous, crazy even.
That and the fact that they cannot explain their views in light of the available evidence and often through hissyfits if they are asked an inconvieniant question. Additionally, they seem to be just plain ignorant more times than not, coupled with an astounding level of arrogance that disregards the basis for ideas they don't even understand. If they at least had a compotent understanding of the areas they are discussing that would be one thing, but often they seem to be unable to understand why existing ideas are held and yet conclude they are invalid based on conjecture and vague allusions to "Fox News", "corporations", and "sheeple".
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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Re: astronomers i need help [Re: johnm214]
#14670308 - 06/25/11 12:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
linkamathingy said: authority isn't infallible,
Has anyone challenged this position, or is this just a strawman your beating up on since you dislike diecommie's criticism yet lack a valid reply?
Quote:
and authority tends to swing the title around to justify itself. that's probably why people dislike it.
Does it? I don't know, the papers in the scientific literature are written the same way whether penned by an undergrad or an expert, and often they contain no titles nor information on the author's position- its irrelevant.
What are you basing this off of, can you back it up? I see far more criticism of this notion than I do any legitimate basis for it. Seems to me that some just dislike the idea of authority and search out ways to criticize it, valid or not.
Quote:
that tinfoil hat shit is derogatory. it's like calling someone a nigger or spick.
So what?
Quote:
it's better to trust authority with a grain of salt, than to just outright trust it.
Has anyone argued you should "outright trust it"? Seems like your putting forth a false choice with an irrelevant alternative. This isn't helpful.
Quote:
moonrockmushy said: the whole frustration with the 'tin foil hat' people is their inherent distrust of anyone who disagrees with their view of the world. They do not take the time to actually find out where the other side is coming from, so even if they are right, they end up looking ridiculous, crazy even.
That and the fact that they cannot explain their views in light of the available evidence and often through hissyfits if they are asked an inconvieniant question. Additionally, they seem to be just plain ignorant more times than not, coupled with an astounding level of arrogance that disregards the basis for ideas they don't even understand. If they at least had a compotent understanding of the areas they are discussing that would be one thing, but often they seem to be unable to understand why existing ideas are held and yet conclude they are invalid based on conjecture and vague allusions to "Fox News", "corporations", and "sheeple".
i should go through and quote everything i reply to like you. it's good form and would probably save me answering things later. this thread is getting derailed.
does anybody have any opinions on the pole shift? Some citations? Thanks for any help.
-------------------- SCIENCE!!! If NIST didn't even investigate whether explosives were used, how can we trust their investigation? It's a rule whenever explosions are heard. Though I Laugh EyegasmArt.com anonymous: without name Anonymous: a group with a name don't be fooled, have a revolution on your own terms.
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