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Offlinelaserpig
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Registered: 04/28/09
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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14631374 - 06/18/11 12:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

In every psychology text I've encountered, psyche refers to a person's thoughts, memories, emotional complexes, etcetera. In spiritual terms, none of that is considered to be the true self. Thoughts etc are said to be "conditioned mind," or maya, illusion.

Spirituality addresses the eternal soul which is independent of mental content. Psychology studies mental content, nothing else. I have no comment on the existence or nonexistence of the soul, but this distinction is nonetheless what makes the difference between psychology and spirituality.


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Weedmaster P knows the truth.

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: laserpig]
    #14631406 - 06/18/11 12:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"In spiritual terms, none of that is considered to be the true self. "

Which spiritual terms? When you look at how the Christian concept of soul is used in practice, especially before it fell out of favor in recent years, I think you'll find it no different than any other word we use for personal identity, save for the explanation they give of its origin.

"Spirituality addresses the eternal soul which is independent of mental content. "

Spirituality in general? That's not the only issue though, I've heard soul and mind used interchangably by plenty of "spiritual" people in "spiritual" uses, like Descartes. The soul is not anything if not consciousness to many of these people, including Descartes. Just look at Descartes proof of the existence of his soul. It is based directly from his Cogito argument, is it not? He even went as far as to describe the soul as the "pilot" of the body, giving it directions via thoughts, etc. Is that not spiritual enough for you? I think you might be talking out of your ass here. Am I wrong?

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Offlinelaserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14631472 - 06/18/11 12:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I admit that 16th century Christianity is not what I had in mind when defining spirituality. The spiritual traditions I am most familiar with are those of Asia. Hinduism and Buddhism are quite clear about the distinction between mental content and soul, but I see your point that Descartes thought differently. Perhaps spirituality is simply too broad a label to be meaningfully contrasted against modern psychology.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: laserpig]
    #14631480 - 06/18/11 12:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Perhaps spirituality is simply too broad a label to be meaningfully contrasted against modern psychology."

:thumbup:

And let's not forget vice-versa. Psychology is also extremely broad and with many differing notions of mind/the lack thereof.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14631683 - 06/18/11 01:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

xFrockx said:
Psychology comprises a lot of conflicting notions, so... what psychology?

Spirituality also comprises a lot of conflicting notions, so... what spirituality?




In lieu of this specification, just take the broad definition.




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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinelaserpig
Weedmaster_P

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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: Poid]
    #14632110 - 06/18/11 04:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Clearly, there is no broad definition of spirituality. Eastern and Western definitions contradict each other, as xFrockx just pointed out. IMO this renders a meaningful general comparison between spirituality and psychology impossible (or between spirituality and anything else, for that matter).


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Weedmaster P knows the truth.

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Invisiblenglsnv
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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: xFrockx]
    #14632493 - 06/18/11 06:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
"to feel philosophically would be to use one's feelings in order to gain philosophical insight."

Can you give one example of one such insight that you know?




use the search function, i've posted here before.

Quote:

xFrockx said:
"if i would have stated my beliefs in a different way, without having mentioned my feelings would we really be talking about this? or could we have moved on to discuss the ideas further?"

Its one thing to say you feel a certain way about things, its another to tell other people that and expect anything more than, "So what?" You can have feelings, they just don't form a basis for knowledge anymore than feeling Santa's presence proves Santa's existence.




i don't expect anything more than 'so what'. if that's all you have to contribute then fine, you might as well not reply to my posts.

what forms your basis of knowledge?

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: nglsnv]
    #14632664 - 06/18/11 08:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Gestalt psychology address both figure and ground:
The theoretical principles are the following:

Principle of Totality - The conscious experience must be considered globally (by taking into account all the physical and mental aspects of the individual simultaneously) because the nature of the mind demands that each component be considered as part of a system of dynamic relationships.

Principle of psychophysical isomorphism - A correlation exists between conscious experience and cerebral activity.

Based on the principles above the following methodological principles are defined:

Phenomenon Experimental Analysis - In relation to the Totality Principle any psychological research should take as a starting point phenomena and not be solely focused on sensory qualities.

Biotic Experiment - The School of Gestalt established a need to conduct real experiments which sharply contrasted with and opposed classic laboratory experiments. This signified experimenting in natural situations, developed in real conditions, in which it would be possible to reproduce, with higher fidelity, what would be habitual for a subject.


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OfflineTheOceanInside
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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: g00ru]
    #14633256 - 06/18/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
How many people go to a psychologist and end up using what they learn to reinforce their own bullshit? When really what they need to hear is: wake the fuck up, your soul is dead, stop watching so much T.V. and eat some goddam mushrooms or do yoga or something.




so fucking true man. i'm new here (well i made an account to ask a question awhile back), and now that i actually partake in tripping a lot, i've decided to make my GLORIOUS return :dancer:

expect to see more of me veterans of this site. i've found my home  :inlove3:


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OfflineDamkina
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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: TheOceanInside]
    #14633357 - 06/18/11 12:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I belive that they shouldn`t be broken apart,but taken and used together. Through psychological studies we can understand the nature of our psyche,and the relationships between our psyhical body and mind,we can study emotions,feelings,states of conciousness that are limited to our third-dimensional perception.We learn that our mind affects our psyhical body.

Spirituality comes here to fill some gaps,and add some more relationships. The mind affects not only our psyhical body,but our energy too.It offers us the chance to not only descend the ladder from our mind to our body,being limited in third dimension,but to extend the ladder to the singular and universal nature of the matter,and also to make our own ladders,going in any directions we want.

For that reason,many occultists had advanced knowledge in not only psychology,but biology physics and chemestry.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: laserpig]
    #14634544 - 06/18/11 04:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

laserpig said:
Clearly, there is no broad definition of spirituality. Eastern and Western definitions contradict each other, as xFrockx just pointed out.


They don't completely contradict each other, there are many similarities..here is a definition which is broad enough IMO to encompass both:

Spirituality
Quote:

Spirituality can refer to an ultimate or an alleged immaterial reality; an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of their being; or the “deepest values and meanings by which people live.” Spiritual practices, including meditation, prayer and contemplation, are intended to develop an individual's inner life; spiritual experience includes that of connectedness with a larger reality, yielding a more comprehensive self; with other individuals or the human community; with nature or the cosmos; or with the divine realm. Spirituality is often experienced as a source of inspiration or orientation in life. It can encompass belief in immaterial realities or experiences of the immanent or transcendent nature of the world.




--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: What describes human psychology more accurately/solidly: psychology or spirituality? [Re: nglsnv]
    #14634931 - 06/18/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"what forms your basis of knowledge? "

I'm not sure if I have any knowledge. What is knowledge?

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