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Offlinelove2shpongleIRL
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Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower?
    #14624632 - 06/16/11 07:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?hp

This holiday season is a time to examine who’s been naughty and who’s been nice, but I’m unhappy with my findings. The problem is this: We liberals are personally stingy.

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Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times
Nicholas D. Kristof

On the Ground
Nicholas Kristof addresses reader feedback and posts short takes from his travels.

Go to Columnist Page » Liberals show tremendous compassion in pushing for generous government spending to help the neediest people at home and abroad. Yet when it comes to individual contributions to charitable causes, liberals are cheapskates.

Arthur Brooks, the author of a book on donors to charity, “Who Really Cares,” cites data that households headed by conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than households headed by liberals. A study by Google found an even greater disproportion: average annual contributions reported by conservatives were almost double those of liberals.

Other research has reached similar conclusions. The “generosity index” from the Catalogue for Philanthropy typically finds that red states are the most likely to give to nonprofits, while Northeastern states are least likely to do so.

The upshot is that Democrats, who speak passionately about the hungry and homeless, personally fork over less money to charity than Republicans — the ones who try to cut health insurance for children.

“When I started doing research on charity,” Mr. Brooks wrote, “I expected to find that political liberals — who, I believed, genuinely cared more about others than conservatives did — would turn out to be the most privately charitable people. So when my early findings led me to the opposite conclusion, I assumed I had made some sort of technical error. I re-ran analyses. I got new data. Nothing worked. In the end, I had no option but to change my views.”

Something similar is true internationally. European countries seem to show more compassion than America in providing safety nets for the poor, and they give far more humanitarian foreign aid per capita than the United States does. But as individuals, Europeans are far less charitable than Americans.

Americans give sums to charity equivalent to 1.67 percent of G.N.P., according to a terrific new book, “Philanthrocapitalism,” by Matthew Bishop and Michael Green. The British are second, with 0.73 percent, while the stingiest people on the list are the French, at 0.14 percent.

(Looking away from politics, there’s evidence that one of the most generous groups in America is gays. Researchers believe that is because they are less likely to have rapacious heirs pushing to keep wealth in the family.)

When liberals see the data on giving, they tend to protest that conservatives look good only because they shower dollars on churches — that a fair amount of that money isn’t helping the poor, but simply constructing lavish spires.

It’s true that religion is the essential reason conservatives give more, and religious liberals are as generous as religious conservatives. Among the stingiest of the stingy are secular conservatives.

According to Google’s figures, if donations to all religious organizations are excluded, liberals give slightly more to charity than conservatives do. But Mr. Brooks says that if measuring by the percentage of income given, conservatives are more generous than liberals even to secular causes.

In any case, if conservative donations often end up building extravagant churches, liberal donations frequently sustain art museums, symphonies, schools and universities that cater to the well-off. (It’s great to support the arts and education, but they’re not the same as charity for the needy. And some research suggests that donations to education actually increase inequality because they go mostly to elite institutions attended by the wealthy.)

Conservatives also appear to be more generous than liberals in non financial ways. People in red states are considerably more likely to volunteer for good causes, and conservatives give blood more often. If liberals and moderates gave blood as often as conservatives, Mr. Brooks said, the American blood supply would increase by 45 percent.

So, you’ve guessed it! This column is a transparent attempt this holiday season to shame liberals into being more charitable. Since I often scold Republicans for being callous in their policies toward the needy, it seems only fair to reproach Democrats for being cheap in their private donations. What I want for Christmas is a healthy competition between left and right to see who actually does more for the neediest.

Of course, given the economic pinch these days, charity isn’t on the top of anyone’s agenda. Yet the financial ability to contribute to charity, and the willingness to do so, are strikingly unrelated. Amazingly, the working poor, who have the least resources, somehow manage to be more generous as a percentage of income than the middle class.

So, even in tough times, there are ways to help. Come on liberals, redeem yourselves, and put your wallets where your hearts are.





Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? I know I would. I'd much rather donate money to causes of my choosing than having someone decide for me. What I find interesting in the above article is that if you take religion out of the equation, liberals donate more money. I honestly did not expect that. Not to say churches aren't charitable in their own right. As it stand now, I donate more of my time, than money to charity. I would like to be able to contribute more in the future. Thoughts?


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Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
T. S. Eliot

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: love2shpongleIRL]
    #14624829 - 06/16/11 07:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

" Arthur Brooks, the author ofa bookondonorstocharity,“Who ReallyCares,” cites datathat households headedbyconservativesgive 30 percent more tocharitythanhouseholdsheaded by liberals. A study by Google foundan even greater disproportion:average annual contributions reportedbyconservativeswere almost double those of liberals." ( I hate when my copy and paste does that shit)


Ya I think this pretty much says it all. 

Couldn't have anything to do with the whole conservative thing that goes along with big money private sector and their assoxiated lobbyists or that tax write off thing for charity donations.  Nope none of that.

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Invisiblememes
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: love2shpongleIRL]
    #14626816 - 06/17/11 06:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

love2shpongleIRL said:
What I find interesting in the above article is that if you take religion out of the equation, liberals donate more money. I honestly did not expect that.



Makes sense to me.  Conservatives are by-and-large religious.  And religious people by-and-large give X amount of dollars every day in the collection plate.  These are recorded for tax purposes, obviously, and I would guess that they constitute a significant proportion of totall donations in the US.

Maybe not a significant portionof total dollar value of all donations (because a few very-rich individuals probablydonate huge sums to avoid taxes), but definitely a significant portion of the number of donations.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: love2shpongleIRL]
    #14627047 - 06/17/11 08:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I give plenty now. I would give more if Uncle wasn't sucking away my money to give to moochers.

Conservatives: Putting their money where their mouth is.

Liberals: Putting others money where the liberals mouth is.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: memes]
    #14627644 - 06/17/11 11:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

love2shpongleIRL said:
What I find interesting in the above article is that if you take religion out of the equation, liberals donate more money. I honestly did not expect that.



Makes sense to me.  Conservatives are by-and-large religious.  And religious people by-and-large give X amount of dollars every day in the collection plate.  These are recorded for tax purposes, obviously, and I would guess that they constitute a significant proportion of totall donations in the US.

Maybe not a significant portionof total dollar value of all donations (because a few very-rich individuals probablydonate huge sums to avoid taxes), but definitely a significant portion of the number of donations.




Although I am one I don't think there are very many conservative atheists.  I don't even know if they pollster nitwits would consider me a conservative.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14628295 - 06/17/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Although I am one I don't think there are very many conservative atheists.

Why do you think that is?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: Icelander]
    #14628346 - 06/17/11 01:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Although I am one I don't think there are very many conservative atheists.

Why do you think that is?



Because they seem to think part of the definition of conservative is being religious.  Fiscally I am extremely conservative.  Socially I am completely of the notion that you should be able to do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anybody else.  I think that is a more "conservative"  viewpoint than the meddlers.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14628362 - 06/17/11 02:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Frank would be proud.:lol:

Too bad more of them don't agree. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14628382 - 06/17/11 02:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This is why I've always had trouble supporting them although in most ways I'm a fiscal conservative. As I told Phred in our debate you cannot rationally debate religion as it's not rational. And a true religious person  has to put the rules of their religion ahead of worldly things. How can I trust that when I don't agree with their god?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinelove2shpongleIRL
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: Icelander]
    #14629669 - 06/17/11 06:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
This is why I've always had trouble supporting them although in most ways I'm a fiscal conservative. As I told Phred in our debate you cannot rationally debate religion as it's not rational. And a true religious person  has to put the rules of their religion ahead of worldly things. How can I trust that when I don't agree with their god?



QFT


So, zappa, would you consider yourself a libertarian? Icelander: That is why I have already donated money to both Ron Paul(little cooky) and Gary Johnson(full of win). Those two candidates al-line with my views more than any other individual in any party. The other candidates seem all to ready to bring religion into the picture.


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Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
T. S. Eliot

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: love2shpongleIRL]
    #14629763 - 06/17/11 06:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ron Paul


Has anyone asked him if he believes in the christian god? I'd bet he'd say yes and then I wouldn't trust him either. :lol:

I can only accept an agnostic and they would never have a chance.:curbyourenthusiasm:

I don't have to vote. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinelove2shpongleIRL
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: Icelander]
    #14629880 - 06/17/11 07:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, he has stated he is a christian, but does not want to force his beliefs on anyone. In this world, the majority of people are religious I understand that in this case, I am a minority.  What do you think of Gary Johnson? I like him a hell of alot more then Ron Paul. Johnson is lutheran but, I have never heard him bring up religon. Even on issues like gay marriage or abortion.


--------------------
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
T. S. Eliot

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Would you be more likely to donate money if your taxes were lower? [Re: love2shpongleIRL]
    #14630023 - 06/17/11 07:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, he has stated he is a christian, but does not want to force his beliefs on anyone.

Doesn't matter because he still supposedly has to follow the dictates of god over man and if there is a conflict on a vote then he goes with God.

Plus he likely doesn't believe in any christian god and so is a liar. :lol:

He may be saying that just so he'll have any kind of a chance.

If I was in politics I'd have to lie and therefore could not vote for myself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (06/17/11 07:51 PM)

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