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OfflineShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: johnm214]
    #14624162 - 06/16/11 05:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
Yeah, I'm a student trying to make it through college on my own.  Still haven't seen any suggestions on why that somehow means its ok to pay me 8.00 an hour. I worked 30-35 hrs a week at my last job.  Full time?  What's full time?  No companies let you get 40 a week with benefits any more.  At least not while you're doing the work.  If you are somehow lucky enough to stumble into management then you get the full package, while the people doing the work are excluded.





Gee, and why can't you get full time?  Do you think that might be because at full time they have to give you benefits? 

Now what do you think is going to happen when the government mandates things like a particular type of insurance for full time workers or a particular yearly sallary for full time workers?

That's right, they'll stop hiring full time workers.

How about when they are forced to give people over 20 hours some salary?  Yep, you won't even get the hours you're getting now.


What about when they have to pay you 10$ an hour?  You'll be out of a job.


I love how you ask "why its ok" to pay you $8.00 an hour, implicitly demanding that this level of compensation be proven justified as if you have some right to an explanation.  If you don't like it, why are you still working there?  If its because you can't do better than that means others are in the same boat, those with your skill level.  These people would love to make $8.00 an hour but you hold that position.  If you got paid more, that would be less money available for any of those other people- why should they get screwed over, you've already got a job.

The same type of false-charity is behind the public healthcare nonsense in the US.  People claim its a chartiable act (nevermind with somebody else's money), yet they have no great concern about orphanages, food for the hungry, or housing for the homeless, despite the fact that these would be far cheaper to provide.  Why?  Because they are above those people in economic status and wouldn't benefit from such reforms.  So, what do they advocate for "compassion" and "charitable" reasons?  That's right: the program that just-so-happens to benefit them.  What a shocker.




Yes I ask why is it okay?  Explain, please.  Everybody else says work hard, and it will pay off.  Where is the payoff? Oh did you read how I don't work there any more? Yeah, apparently some dude would do it for 25cents less, so I was gone.

I think were on the same side here... of course its the governments fault that there are labor laws... you know how great workers were treated before?  It is still company greed that they'll let you work 39 hours and 59 minutes a week and force you to clock out and leave no matter what.  Hard work pays off though, right?  Oh yeah, when people were working in factories in the early 1900s, that paid off too.  They were able to work double the amount of hours,  yet got paid the same per hour as the people who didn't.  Hard work pays off though, right?  You wonder why its such a nanny state right now?  If hard work paid people would he doing it.  I know a kid my age who doesn't go to school and works two part times, even though he works a hair shy of 80 he's every week.  $8.50 a hour at each job.  Good thing hard work pays off though, right?

We also wouldn't need food sheles, homeless shelters, etc nearly as much if what you were saying is true. The truth is that EASY work pays off, not hard work.  Not any more and maybe you and phred are a little out of touch with the state of people who are actually trying to succeed in today's job market.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14624178 - 06/16/11 06:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Asking for more handouts is not trying to succeed.  Fucking hell buy a sack and grab your life.


--------------------

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OfflineShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Phred]
    #14624208 - 06/16/11 06:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

No companies let you get 40 a week with benefits any more...




...when they know damn well you'll bail on them the instant you have enough money to head back to school for the next semester. The positions that pay more than minimum wage are usually the jobs that will actually damage the business if the person filling the position can't commit to a certain period of time. Hiring new people and dealing with the inevitable productivity losses while the new hire gets up to speed is something most business owners are smart enough to avoid if they can.

What is your point, anyway? Do you really believe that once you are done with school and can commit to, say, a five-year stint at a given company, you'll still be stuck with nothing but a choice between five years of minimum wage existence at Company ABC vs five years of minimum wage existence at Corporation XYZ? Because if you honestly believe that's the way things work in the business world, why not quit school right now and get on with it? Seriously... what's the point of going to school for more years if that's all that's waiting for you? I am not being facetious here.

No... you don't honestly believe that. You believe that once you have your degree, you'll be able to land something better than a minimum wage joe job. My question to you is - why on earth do you believe you are owed something better than that at this stage in your on again off again work history?




Phred




I already told you I was working 30-35 hours a week.  I live where I go to school. And I don't bail on employers.  I plan on being here for grad school, so I have maybe 6 years left in this town?  And I still can't get a job?  Dedication doesn't mean shit any more, you're never allowed to prove yourself because you can barely find a paper application any more.  You apply online and hope a cover letter and a resume will actually get looked at.  Yet kids going for a business degree are eligible for internships that pay you bank compared to any other college aged kid. 

No I don't believe ill be getting paid minimum wage after I graduate.  Cost of living is going up though and pay is going nowhere.  If this isn't the bottom line of the issue I don't know what is.  All due to gas prices (good thing we can't discuss proactive measures against this, gotta lock any of those kind of threads).

And who are you to describe my work history as on again off again? Since I've been legally able to work (which I consider 16, but held jobs previously)  I have been out of work for maybe 4 months including this stint, never worked a job for less than a year.  What am I doing wrong?

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14624257 - 06/16/11 06:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
What am I doing wrong?




Whining and looking for a handout.


--------------------

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14624293 - 06/16/11 06:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You are not reading what I'm writing.

Your employers know you are a student. They aren't going to invest in you until they have at least some assurance that their needs will be given a higher precedence by you than your studies. This is nothing new, nothing unusual. It has always been that way because given the restrictions business owners operate under, it is sheer madness to spend time and effort and money guiding an employee along a path which will lead him to be of increasing value to the business (hence worth a higher salary) when they know - not just suspect, but know - that the employee will leave them to work elsewhere the instant he possibly can.

The business owners aren't doing this to be pricks, they are doing it because decades (hell, centuries) of the collected experience of business owners all over the world has proven over and over again that this is the rational way to run a business. Business owners who behave irrationally are very soon ex-business owners.

Zap is right. Stop whining, grow a sack and accept that your situation is nothing special. I went through it, my roommates back in the early Seventies went through it, zap went through it, millions of workers who chose to do the "starving student" routine went through it. It is rare indeed for someone who has to work to put himself through school to have a story much different than your own. That's just the way it is. The way it always has been. It's not just the way it is, but - as we've been trying to tell you for a while now - it's the way it has to be.  At least, it's the way it has to be if the jobs you've been getting are in the private sector. All bets are off if you can land a government job that you can fit your school schedule around.

Because government doesn't have to act rationally.






Phred


--------------------

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OfflineShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14624317 - 06/16/11 06:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Asking for more handouts is not trying to succeed.  Fucking hell buy a sack and grab your life.





Ha.  You're still trying to say that a raise in minimum wage is a handout?  Please explain how it is a "handout" when I pay more for absolutely everything I eat, drink, or purchase in general than in any modern times?  Why should I be paying 60 dollars to fill up my tank to get to work, when my paychecks were only around 400 after taxes?  I'm spending around15% of my paycheck just to get to work?  Gas prices are inflating the price of everything meaning I am "saving" (if what I am doing is saving) less and less.  Paying 400 a month just on rent and utilities? So out of 800 in income a month, I've already spent 500+ before I even get to eat? Have you noticed how much food costs are increasing?  So take home a month is around 200 dollars if I would do nothing but eat sleep work and school?  Some gig huh.

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Phred]
    #14624364 - 06/16/11 06:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
You are not reading what I'm writing.

Your employers know you are a student. They aren't going to invest in you until they have at least some assurance that their needs will be given a higher precedence by you than your studies. This is nothing new, nothing unusual. It has always been that way because given the restrictions business owners operate under, it is sheer madness to spend time and effort and money guiding an employee along a path which will lead him to be of increasing value to the business (hence worth a higher salary) when they know - not just suspect, but know - that the employee will leave them to work elsewhere the instant he possibly can.

The business owners aren't doing this to be pricks, they are doing it because decades (hell, centuries) of the collected experience of business owners all over the world has proven over and over again that this is the rational way to run a business. Business owners who behave irrationally are very soon ex-business owners.

Zap is right. Stop whining, grow a sack and accept that your situation is nothing special. I went through it, my roommates back in the early Seventies went through it, zap went through it, millions of workers who chose to do the "starving student" routine went through it. It is rare indeed for someone who has to work to put himself through school to have a story much different than your own. That's just the way it is. The way it always has been. It's not just the way it is, but - as we've been trying to tell you for a while now - it's the way it has to be.  At least, it's the way it has to be if the jobs you've been getting are in the private sector. All bets are off if you can land a government job that you can fit your school schedule around.

Because government doesn't have to act rationally.






Phred




I'm reading it.  Must be nice to be able to say grow a sack.  And doesn't anybody leave when better opportunities arise?  When my former roommate who is a business major gets a fat internship to learn how to fuck people over?  You ignore the points I make,  and it has gone from "work hard" to "well you work hard but..." enough with the excuses.  So what if I'm in school, there is no reason to believe that I'm going to simply run off on a company that treats me well... when I didn't even do it when I was in spots where I wasn't.

If we want history, show me one free market society in modern times that has been successful.  Oh wait...

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14624413 - 06/16/11 06:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

From what I understand internships are non paying.  Now that's some slave labor bullshit.

As a percentage of income the essentials are at a historical low.  I worked as a dishwasher and was grateful for the job.  $1.85 an hour, no tipshare.  I worked digging holes and whatever other construction bullshit.  $2.15 an hour.  Happy to have the job.

I asked some questions but 2 were of particular interest.

1.  What is your job?
2.  What is your degree?

  Finally you seem to have an extreme entitlement issue.  Why should you have to pay such and such for so and so?  I dunno.  Because you want them?  Why should I buy them for you?  Because I can tell you that I would rather burn a hundred dollar bill over the stove than see it go anywhere near you.


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Phred]
    #14624574 - 06/16/11 07:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
You are not reading what I'm writing.

Your employers know you are a student. They aren't going to invest in you until they have at least some assurance that their needs will be given a higher precedence by you than your studies. This is nothing new, nothing unusual. It has always been that way because given the restrictions business owners operate under, it is sheer madness to spend time and effort and money guiding an employee along a path which will lead him to be of increasing value to the business (hence worth a higher salary) when they know - not just suspect, but know - that the employee will leave them to work elsewhere the instant he possibly can.

The business owners aren't doing this to be pricks, they are doing it because decades (hell, centuries) of the collected experience of business owners all over the world has proven over and over again that this is the rational way to run a business. Business owners who behave irrationally are very soon ex-business owners.

Zap is right. Stop whining, grow a sack and accept that your situation is nothing special. I went through it, my roommates back in the early Seventies went through it, zap went through it, millions of workers who chose to do the "starving student" routine went through it. It is rare indeed for someone who has to work to put himself through school to have a story much different than your own. That's just the way it is. The way it always has been. It's not just the way it is, but - as we've been trying to tell you for a while now - it's the way it has to be.  At least, it's the way it has to be if the jobs you've been getting are in the private sector. All bets are off if you can land a government job that you can fit your school schedule around.

Because government doesn't have to act rationally.






Phred



:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineChuangTzu
starvingphysicist
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Registered: 09/04/02
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14624974 - 06/16/11 08:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
http://www.rxpgnews.com/suicide/Poorest_people_are_at_Highest_risk_of_Suicide_1799_1799.shtml

Poor people are at a higher risk of suicide.




Are they more likely to commit suicide or are they poor because they are suicidal?  Correlation does not equal causation.

Quote:


Yet, we can watch and say 'let these assholes work for their money, while the CEO who they work for is making an average of 430 times what he/she makes'

Come on, you have to be naive to think that this sort of nonsense is just in a society where the more money you have, the more money you can make.




What I think is more unjust is armed people intervening in what should be private affairs.  There is nothing unjust about you and I reaching an agreement for you to mow my lawn for $5/hr.  Prohibiting this is unjust because it prevents people from getting work.  If I can't get someone to cut my lawn for $5/hr., maybe I cut it myself or just let it grow.  Then, even though you'd be happy to get those $5/hr., the law prevents you and you get $0 instead.  That is unjust.

Quote:


There is a reason we have instilled into law 'minimum wage' and it has to do with stopping wealthy people from simply getting wealthier.




That's not the reason minimum wage laws were passed.  At all.  Minimum wage laws benefit big companies, stifle small businesses, and cause unemployment.


Quote:

Likewise, the minimum wage could easily be double in most developed countries and there be no negative consequences to both the society and to those wealthy motherfuckers profits.




Wrong, see above.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14625113 - 06/16/11 08:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
Your plan is the same "redistribution of wealth" (and really, you're going to call food assistance wealth?) , but instead of flowing down to the vast majority of Americans,  your redistribution makes it surge upward to the elite. 




I assume your post was directed towards me.  You have no idea what my "plan" is.

Quote:


I agree, but people seem to be double dipping.  The same people that argue states rights argue marijuana should still be illegal because of the federal CSA is in place.  But when they want to detain and deport illegal immigrants they claim states rights (I'm using Arizona as an example here, but the hypocrisy is not limited to one political party or state).  There would he drastic change if our government were truely limited by the powers only granted to them explicitly in the constitution.




Just because they do it, doesn't mean you should.

Quote:


That is a lie.  A down right lie.  Or a half truth, but even then... the way you represent yourself is completely misleading.  When was this that you supposedly lived "for years" without any assistance whatsoever, on 5000/yr?




It is absolutely not a lie.  From 2001-2006, I lived on $5000-6000/year.  And you can too.


Quote:

Unfortunately it isn't naivety.  It is greed.  Their idea of "just" isn't like ours, because "just" is replaced by "just one more dollar and I might be happy"




Who's the greedy one?  You're green with envy.

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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14625144 - 06/16/11 08:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
From what I understand internships are non paying.  Now that's some slave labor bullshit.

As a percentage of income the essentials are at a historical low.  I worked as a dishwasher and was grateful for the job.  $1.85 an hour, no tipshare.  I worked digging holes and whatever other construction bullshit.  $2.15 an hour.  Happy to have the job.

I asked some questions but 2 were of particular interest.

1.  What is your job?
2.  What is your degree?

  Finally you seem to have an extreme entitlement issue.  Why should you have to pay such and such for so and so?  I dunno.  Because you want them?  Why should I buy them for you?  Because I can tell you that I would rather burn a hundred dollar bill over the stove than see it go anywhere near you.





How many times do I need to tell you I don't have a job.  I am not going to lay out my program but I was lucky and had the chance to learn a lot more than an average single disciplinary student.  If you want info you can PM me but it is not something I want public. 

You seem to think that me asking why I am not entitled to something means that I actually think I am entitled to something.  That's really all this has been, thing that I would consider basic things to feel entitled. All I've been getting is attacks on character.  Why is a boss entitled to male 100x more than an average employee?  What gives him that entitlement?  All I see is people responding "the money".  All you talk about is income tax, but what about the taxes that don't have monetary values attached?  Who cares its all about "the money".  Why can't people who don't give a fuck about "the money" simply make enough money to be at least comfortable (this is 2011) when others have enough money for their direct descendants to not lift a finger for 500 years.  Why is there the need to work 80 hours in a week so that the 15 hours a week they are awake in their house in comfort while the guy just a couple ranks up from him works 50 hours a week and makes twice as much as the other guy  along with benefits and vacation and doesnt work as hard? You haven't given one reason besides that's just how it is to make "the money"


Once again, I see lots of places with no government and that's not pretty.  You all claim you want free market, but you don't see the problem with things like gas prices being created by people taking in millions on other peoples struggle. 40% of gas price due to futures speculation some are saying, at best others are saying 20.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14625228 - 06/16/11 09:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It is absolutely not a lie.  From 2001-2006, I lived on $5000-6000/year.  And you can too.

I know it can be done because I did something similar for longer than that.  I was making more money than that however so I saved it and when done paid cash for a house. IMO very few people know how to handle cash resources to best benefit.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14625264 - 06/16/11 09:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
All I've been getting is attacks on character.




The way I see it, posts making disparging conclusions about your charecter are acceptable when your charecter is relevant to the topic and you raised the issue.  If you don't want people talking and criticising you, don't bring up your personal situation.  If you do, and claim something, it is only fair that others may criticize this judgment, including your fitness for any particular job or wage.  If someone is being malicious or the criticism is irrelevant to the topic, then I think you'd have a reason to complain.


 
Quote:

Why is a boss entitled to male 100x more than an average employee?




What does it matter?

To answer your question, he's not.  Nobody owes him that by virtue of him being "the boss; he either reached that figure voluntarily through his employer or he managed to receive that level of compensation through his business dealings if he is the owner.

Quote:

Why can't people who don't give a fuck about "the money" simply make enough money to be at least comfortable (this is 2011) when others have enough money for their direct descendants to not lift a finger for 500 years.




You ask a lot of questions without explaining the relevance of the answer to your point.  I wonder if this isn't a way to avoid criticism of saying directly whatever the implied argument is, such as "The rich guy owes me money because he has more than me".

Anyways, you've not established that people can't do as you ask, so your inquiry as to why they don't is illogical as it relies on an unjustified premise.



Quote:

Once again, I see lots of places with no government and that's not pretty.  You all claim you want free market, but you don't see the problem with things like gas prices being created by people taking in millions on other peoples struggle. 40% of gas price due to futures speculation some are saying, at best others are saying 20.




So? 

I don't get this bitching about speculators and crap like that.  How does some dude buying oil for profit aggrieve your rights?  If you really think the price is unjustified then why don't you buy up some contracts and put your money where your mouth is?

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Offline4896744
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Phred]
    #14625268 - 06/16/11 09:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

People think that stealing from the rich is ok because they are in a lower position and want more benefit for themselves. That is all there is to it. Whenever someone has an opportunity to benefit themselves they will take it. Especially if said opportunity can be "rationalized" in their mind with some idea like that it is the only "fair" way or something along those lines. Very few people can actually objectively step back and see how good they really have it.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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OfflineRashelio
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Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 11
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14625407 - 06/16/11 09:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Because when corporations are again making record profits under two tax laws which basically exempts them from paying the alternative minimum tax (designed to boost the economy and create jobs which has not worked) what those corporations really need now is an extension on their corporate welfare plan.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Rashelio]
    #14625440 - 06/16/11 09:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Rashelio said:
Because when corporations are again making record profits under two tax laws which basically exempts them from paying the alternative minimum tax (designed to boost the economy and create jobs which has not worked) what those corporations really need now is an extension on their corporate welfare plan.




What are you talking about?  Not all rich people made their money through corporations and not all corporations are owned by rich people.

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OfflineRashelio
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Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14625465 - 06/16/11 10:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA)

Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 (JGTRRA)

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14625498 - 06/16/11 10:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You seem to think that me asking why I am not entitled to something means that I actually think I am entitled to something.




If you don't think you're entitled to anything, why the pages and pages and pages of railing at people who have more than you do? What they have is not anything you are entitled to, right?

Quote:

That's really all this has been, thing that I would consider basic things to feel entitled.




Such as? You are going to have a very, very unhappy journey  through the rest of life if you are unable to grasp the simple truth that you are entitled to nothing other than being left alone by your fellow humans to do the best you can.

You are not entitled to the same things (material goods) that others have, because strictly speaking, neither are they entitled to those things. They (almost all of them in a country ruled by law, such as the US) got those things not because they are entitled to them, in the sense that those things were being held in waiting for them somewhere and all they had to do was show up at the secret depository with the proper password, but because other humans freely agreed to trade those things for other things (or other services). Steve Jobs doesn't own billions of dollars because he's entitled to billions of dollars, he owns those dollars because millions of people freely traded their dollars for the Apple gizmos he arranged to have brought into existence. No Steve Jobs, no iPods. No iPods, no billions for Steve Jobs. It's as simple as that.

Quote:

Why is a boss entitled to male 100x more than an average employee?




Because the number of people with the necessary mindset, skills and experience to proficiently carry out the functions of the position he is filling are a whole hell of a lot scarcer than an average employee. As a result, the few people out there who can do more than merely endure the stress and responsibility of the position, but can perform under that pressure so well that the owner makes a decent profit out of the enterprise the boss is bossing, are being constantly offered better and better terms to leave their current employer and work elsewhere. There's an entire industry (a profitable one, at that) dedicated to doing nothing more than locating proficient bosses and persuading them to move to other companies. Does the term "headhunter" ring any bells?

These people aren't paid what they are paid because there exists some vast conspiracy to keep young'uns who are working their way through college from getting high-paying jobs. They are paid what they are paid because it is a rational thing for a business owner interested in staying in business to do. It's that way not because of prejudice or bigotry or meanness or conspiracy or religious fervor or mindless tradition or perverted amusement at seeing entheogen-eating college students gripe in public on message boards populated mostly by other equally callow, still-wet-behind-the-ears yoots. It's that way because hundreds of years of empirical evidence provided by hundreds of thousands of businesses have shown unmistakably that it pays off way more often than any other method anyone has been able to devise so far.

Quote:

What gives him that entitlement?




Again, he's not "entitled" to that money, or to that position. Businesses fire CEOs all the time. Seriously. I am not making this up. But he is paid the money because he has shown he is proficient at what he does.

Quote:

All you talk about is income tax, but what about the taxes that don't have monetary values attached?




You mean the tax on our time involved in filling out innumerable forms and complying with ever-expanding binders full of government-created regulations, restrictions and licensing requirements? What about them?

Quote:

Why can't people who don't give a fuck about "the money" simply make enough money to be at least comfortable (this is 2011)...




Because those people haven't yet been successful in persuading other people that the services they can trade for that kind of money are actually worth it.

Quote:

...when others have enough money for their direct descendants to not lift a finger for 500 years.




How much money J.K. Rowling can leave to her descendants is completely irrelevant to how much money NBC is willing to pay for a window washer to clean the windows at 30 Rockefeller Plaza. . If J.K. Rowling had remained on welfare for the rest of her life rather than write a series of best-selling books, it wouldn't change by a penny the amount of money NBC would be willing to pay a window washer. It doesn't work like that.

Quote:

Why is there the need to work 80 hours in a week so that the 15 hours a week they are awake in their house in comfort while the guy just a couple ranks up from him works 50 hours a week and makes twice as much as the other guy  along with benefits and vacation and doesnt work as hard?




See above.

Quote:

You haven't given one reason besides that's just how it is to make "the money"




We've all given you perfectly simple, logical, and testable reasons why this is the case. It's not our fault that your reaction is to jam your fingers in your ears, squeeze your eyes shut and chant "Is not, is not, is not!" Regardless of what you have managed to convince yourself to be true, the fact of the matter is that your labor is worth not a penny more than what you can persuade someone to pay for it.




Phred


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Rashelio]
    #14625608 - 06/16/11 10:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Rashelio said:
Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA)

Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 (JGTRRA)




I was asking what the relevance of the corporate tax rate is to this thread.

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