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ShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: zappaisgod]
#14622998 - 06/16/11 02:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Let me see here. The CEO works and gets paid what his employer agrees to pay him. As a consequence he pays around half of what he makes in taxes. The loser junkie bum doesn't work, doesn't pay taxes, breeds with several women/men but demands he/she gets his/her the progeny's needs met. And the CEO is greedy?
The free market for labor is never going to be equal because most people are lazy, talentless cyphers. If they show up at all. Subsidizing bumitude creates bums. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, liberal giant, understood this.
Although I have never been paid to play baseball I do not begrudge the people who make fortunes doing it. They are way better players than I am.
Free market labor:don't pay the "bums" because you can pay a five year old to do it for 10% of cost.
You have a convoluted ideaology of the majority of low income workers. When I am employed, I show up every day, work hard, and don't bitch. Yet I still am not allowed to make enough money to make enough to live any sort of lifestyle that I want to. A dollar more in minimum wage would be nice, nut when you pay them that (extra 2grand or so per full tome minimum wage job) you're still paying them the minimal the law allows you to. You would be surprised how Mich the attitude of workers shift when they don't feel as though they are being taken advantage of.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14623098 - 06/16/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomyJohn said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Let me see here. The CEO works and gets paid what his employer agrees to pay him. As a consequence he pays around half of what he makes in taxes. The loser junkie bum doesn't work, doesn't pay taxes, breeds with several women/men but demands he/she gets his/her the progeny's needs met. And the CEO is greedy?
The free market for labor is never going to be equal because most people are lazy, talentless cyphers. If they show up at all. Subsidizing bumitude creates bums. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, liberal giant, understood this.
Although I have never been paid to play baseball I do not begrudge the people who make fortunes doing it. They are way better players than I am.
Free market labor:don't pay the "bums" because you can pay a five year old to do it for 10% of cost.
If you are over 18 and a five year old can do your job you should probably just end it all now.Quote:
You have a convoluted ideaology of the majority of low income workers. When I am employed, I show up every day, work hard, and don't bitch. Yet I still am not allowed to make enough money to make enough to live any sort of lifestyle that I want to. A dollar more in minimum wage would be nice, nut when you pay them that (extra 2grand or so per full tome minimum wage job) you're still paying them the minimal the law allows you to. You would be surprised how Mich the attitude of workers shift when they don't feel as though they are being taken advantage of.
AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW poor baby isn't worth what he thinks he is.
I blame the cult of self-esteem that has taken over the education system wherein everybody gets a trophy no matter how much they suck. And no, if we raise the minimum wage you will still complain and feel worthless. Because it is the minimum wage.
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ShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: zappaisgod]
#14623144 - 06/16/11 02:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You don't read much do you? Just maybe catch a word here and there of what's being said? Have you ever seen me say I think I deserve any sort of handouts? Why he last two years have I owed money to the government, which I paid even though I didn't have much left after it? There is no way that I am ever going to have to worry about money where I am going, but that doesn't mean I ignore the people that do, as you seem to do. You want to go tell a person who got laid off of a manufacturing job here in the USA so a little kid can do it for cheaper somewhere else? Why do you think people call them "shitty Chinese knockoffs" .... maybe because they can't do a job better, they can do it cheaper.
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ShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14623161 - 06/16/11 02:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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And its the cult of self esteem hurting schools? Really that's what you think it is? I don't know whether to laugh because that is such a joke, or sink into despair when I realize its what you may actually believe.
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love2shpongleIRL
Opiophile



Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 4,784
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14623193 - 06/16/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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In my opinion, to a limited extent it is. When everyone wins no one wins.In life, there are winners and losers and that is a lesson that can be taught at an early age.
-------------------- Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go. T. S. Eliot
Edited by love2shpongleIRL (06/16/11 03:01 PM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14623210 - 06/16/11 03:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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People make minimum wage because that (over inflated as it is) is what they are worth to that business. If that system doesn't work for you, feel free to scrimp and save and then give it all away. It will be yours to do with as you wish. The handout state has turned us into a nation of pathetic whiners.
And yes, the schools have been turning out self-centered, self entitled little twits for years. Many can't even make change for a dollar without the register telling them what to do.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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ShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#14623256 - 06/16/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
love2shpongleIRL said: In my opinion, to a limited extent it is. When everyone wins no one wins.In life, there are winners and losers and that is a lesson that can be taught at an early age.
Agreed, but since you're raised in white suburbia, you are automatically given more opportunity to succeed compared to anybody in a "ghetto"
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: People make minimum wage because that (over inflated as it is) is what they are worth to that business. If that system doesn't work for you, feel free to scrimp and save and then give it all away. It will be yours to do with as you wish. The handout state has turned us into a nation of pathetic whiners.
And yes, the schools have been turning out self-centered, self entitled little twits for years. Many can't even make change for a dollar without the register telling them what to do.
You think minimum wage should be lowered? This is seriously a joke now. Did you complete any post secondary education? The only self-centered, self-entitled twigs being pushed out of schools are the ones that think they are the only one that matters, and that they deserve to be as rich as the next guy, so they fuck over as many people as possible so they can get rich. There is nothing self-centered or self-entitled about not being able to make ends meet at your job. You are so backwards
Edited by ShroomyJohn (06/16/11 03:14 PM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14623280 - 06/16/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomyJohn said:
Quote:
love2shpongleIRL said: In my opinion, to a limited extent it is. When everyone wins no one wins.In life, there are winners and losers and that is a lesson that can be taught at an early age.
Agreed, but since you're raised in white suburbia, you are automatically given more opportunity to succeed compared to anybody in a "ghetto"
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: People make minimum wage because that (over inflated as it is) is what they are worth to that business. If that system doesn't work for you, feel free to scrimp and save and then give it all away. It will be yours to do with as you wish. The handout state has turned us into a nation of pathetic whiners.
And yes, the schools have been turning out self-centered, self entitled little twits for years. Many can't even make change for a dollar without the register telling them what to do.
You think minimum wage should be lowered? This is seriously a joke now. Did you complete any post secondary education?
Ah, the "attempt to insult those who think differently than I do" maneuver.
Well, we all need a talent. Keep working at it. Maybe you'll develop one.
But to answer the portion of your post that isn't an embarrassing look into your mind... I think minimum wage should be eliminated.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14623288 - 06/16/11 03:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomyJohn said:
Quote:
love2shpongleIRL said: In my opinion, to a limited extent it is. When everyone wins no one wins.In life, there are winners and losers and that is a lesson that can be taught at an early age.
Agreed, but since you're raised in white suburbia, you are automatically given more opportunity to succeed compared to anybody in a "ghetto"
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: People make minimum wage because that (over inflated as it is) is what they are worth to that business. If that system doesn't work for you, feel free to scrimp and save and then give it all away. It will be yours to do with as you wish. The handout state has turned us into a nation of pathetic whiners.
And yes, the schools have been turning out self-centered, self entitled little twits for years. Many can't even make change for a dollar without the register telling them what to do.
You think minimum wage should be lowered? This is seriously a joke now. Did you complete any post secondary education? The only self-centered, self-entitled twigs being pushed out of schools are the ones that think they are the only one that matters, and that they deserve to be as rich as the next guy, so they fuck over as many people as possible so they can get rich. There is nothing self-centered or self-entitled about not being able to make ends meet at your job. You are so backwards
Yup. Eliminated.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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ShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#14623301 - 06/16/11 03:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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, high and mighty enough to point out faults and criticize(you did never answer my question), yet low and pathetic enough to come right back and use the same techniques. Brilliant
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ShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14623312 - 06/16/11 03:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nothing to see here people... just radical ideas to send America into third world country status. Move along.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14623321 - 06/16/11 03:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomyJohn said:
, high and mighty enough to point out faults and criticize(you did never answer my question), yet low and pathetic enough to come right back and use the same techniques. Brilliant
Reading not your strength?
I said "Yup. Eliminated."
You are a funny one.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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ShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
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Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#14623352 - 06/16/11 03:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
ShroomyJohn said:
, high and mighty enough to point out faults and criticize(you did never answer my question), yet low and pathetic enough to come right back and use the same techniques. Brilliant
Reading not your strength?
I said "Yup. Eliminated."
You are a funny one.
Once again shifting topic away from the question. Did you ever complete any sort of post secondary education? You evaded the question by calling it a personal attack, and try to continue moving away.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14623432 - 06/16/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You have trouble remembering things frequently?
You asked: You think minimum wage should be lowered?
Was that not the first question you asked? It's the one I answered.
If you meant a specific question you should have said so.
Here's your pre-edit post:
You think minimum wage should be lowered? This is seriously a joke now. Did you complete any post secondary education?
Here's your post-edit post:
You think minimum wage should be lowered? This is seriously a joke now. Did you complete any post secondary education? The only self-centered, self-entitled twigs being pushed out of schools are the ones that think they are the only one that matters, and that they deserve to be as rich as the next guy, so they fuck over as many people as possible so they can get rich. There is nothing self-centered or self-entitled about not being able to make ends meet at your job. You are so backwards
Question 1: You think minimum wage should be lowered?
Question 2: Did you complete any post secondary education?
I didn't realize I was supposed to guess which one you meant.
So now that you've finally been at least a little clear...
Answer 1: No. I don't think it should be lowered. It should be eliminated.
Answer 2: Yes.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14623627 - 06/16/11 04:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomyJohn said: You don't read much do you? Just maybe catch a word here and there of what's being said? Have you ever seen me say I think I deserve any sort of handouts? Why he last two years have I owed money to the government, which I paid even though I didn't have much left after it? There is no way that I am ever going to have to worry about money where I am going, but that doesn't mean I ignore the people that do, as you seem to do. You want to go tell a person who got laid off of a manufacturing job here in the USA so a little kid can do it for cheaper somewhere else? Why do you think people call them "shitty Chinese knockoffs" .... maybe because they can't do a job better, they can do it cheaper.
If they suck people will stop buying them. Yeah, it happens. And yes you did call for a handout. What do you think increasing the minimum wage law would be?
I have sympathy and compassion for the truly unfortunate. I have nothing but scorn for the lazy, the drunk, the incompetent. And in my life almost every single person who is failing is failing due to their own behavior. A few medical hits. That's it. When you subsidize bummitude you get more bummitude.
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ShroomyJohn
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: zappaisgod]
#14623808 - 06/16/11 04:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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That's not true. When something is cheap and replaceable enough, people will buy it. When people have no other choice because they're getting paid shit (or jobless)here in America to buy nothing but cheap because that's all they can afford. It is a viscious cycle.
To call a raise in minimum wage a "handout" is quite insulting to somebody who has never made more than $8.50 in his (my) life. How do you suppose I am supposed to get a proper education (full time student, next semester I will be in class 22hours a week, general rule of thumb is an hour outside per hour inside class to simply "pass" so already 44 hours a week of school at an absolute minimum) while being able to support myself on $7.50-8.00/hr while still maintaining grades? Where in your solution to everything does a person like myself fit?
My last job: fired 4/5 employees instead of giving us raises, while we brought more business in than they had ever experienced . Then hired some new guy with promises of job security and good pay for hard work. Hard work and dedication doesn't pay off when you're not the one profiting from that work and dedication.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14623896 - 06/16/11 05:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh, holy crap. You're still a student? Then what the fuck are you complaining for?
Look, all of us old folks (me, Seuss, Icelander, zappaisgod, luvdemshrooms) started our working careers doing what used to be called Joe Jobs and I guess today are called burger flipper jobs. These jobs paid either below minimum wage, minimum wage, or a bit more than minimum wage. It appears you are no different. This is normal. Average. Nominal. To be expected. Par for the course.
But none of us stayed at that level for long once we were available to work full time. I think I'm the only one of that group (I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong) who wasted no time at college and went straight into the job market after high school. My very first full time job was for Cdn $2.00 an hour at a time when the Canadian minimum wage was $1.65 an hour. I stayed in that job for exactly six weeks, then took a different job for a probationary period which stipulated $3.86 an hour, which six months later become just a hair over $5.00 (I think it was like $5.12, but I wouldn't want to swear to that). So less than a year after entering the full time job market as a total noob with zero job experience, I was making triple minimum wage. Less than fifteen years later, I filed a tax return showing just a hair under a hundred grand in salary and commissions. And that was back when a hundred grand was actually worth something (late Eighties). Your own earning pattern will almost certainly look pretty similar. Perhaps not quite so steep a rise quite so quickly, but for sure you won't still be working minimum wage jobs five years after graduating. Or even a year after graduating.
Patience, grasshopper, patience.
Phred
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ShroomyJohn
Stranger
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Phred]
#14623979 - 06/16/11 05:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, I'm a student trying to make it through college on my own. Still haven't seen any suggestions on why that somehow means its ok to pay me 8.00 an hour. I worked 30-35 hrs a week at my last job. Full time? What's full time? No companies let you get 40 a week with benefits any more. At least not while you're doing the work. If you are somehow lucky enough to stumble into management then you get the full package, while the people doing the work are excluded.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14624065 - 06/16/11 05:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomyJohn said: Yeah, I'm a student trying to make it through college on my own. Still haven't seen any suggestions on why that somehow means its ok to pay me 8.00 an hour. I worked 30-35 hrs a week at my last job. Full time? What's full time? No companies let you get 40 a week with benefits any more. At least not while you're doing the work. If you are somehow lucky enough to stumble into management then you get the full package, while the people doing the work are excluded.
Gee, and why can't you get full time? Do you think that might be because at full time they have to give you benefits?
Now what do you think is going to happen when the government mandates things like a particular type of insurance for full time workers or a particular yearly sallary for full time workers?
That's right, they'll stop hiring full time workers.
How about when they are forced to give people over 20 hours some salary? Yep, you won't even get the hours you're getting now.
What about when they have to pay you 10$ an hour? You'll be out of a job.
I love how you ask "why its ok" to pay you $8.00 an hour, implicitly demanding that this level of compensation be proven justified as if you have some right to an explanation. If you don't like it, why are you still working there? If its because you can't do better than that means others are in the same boat, those with your skill level. These people would love to make $8.00 an hour but you hold that position. If you got paid more, that would be less money available for any of those other people- why should they get screwed over, you've already got a job.
The same type of false-charity is behind the public healthcare nonsense in the US. People claim its a chartiable act (nevermind with somebody else's money), yet they have no great concern about orphanages, food for the hungry, or housing for the homeless, despite the fact that these would be far cheaper to provide. Why? Because they are above those people in economic status and wouldn't benefit from such reforms. So, what do they advocate for "compassion" and "charitable" reasons? That's right: the program that just-so-happens to benefit them. What a shocker.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
#14624097 - 06/16/11 05:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
No companies let you get 40 a week with benefits any more...
...when they know damn well you'll bail on them the instant you have enough money to head back to school for the next semester. The positions that pay more than minimum wage are usually the jobs that will actually damage the business if the person filling the position can't commit to a certain period of time. Hiring new people and dealing with the inevitable productivity losses while the new hire gets up to speed is something most business owners are smart enough to avoid if they can.
What is your point, anyway? Do you really believe that once you are done with school and can commit to, say, a five-year stint at a given company, you'll still be stuck with nothing but a choice between five years of minimum wage existence at Company ABC vs five years of minimum wage existence at Corporation XYZ? Because if you honestly believe that's the way things work in the business world, why not quit school right now and get on with it? Seriously... what's the point of going to school for more years if that's all that's waiting for you? I am not being facetious here.
No... you don't honestly believe that. You believe that once you have your degree, you'll be able to land something better than a minimum wage joe job. My question to you is - why on earth do you believe you are owed something better than that at this stage in your on again off again work history?
Phred
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