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OfflineShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Icelander]
    #14618527 - 06/15/11 04:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

He comes here and gives me a warning after I hit the whistle on the thread.  What a joke.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14618538 - 06/15/11 04:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If you deserve one you get one or at least that's the theory. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
PhungiPharmer
Male

Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 240
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Therian]
    #14618972 - 06/15/11 06:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Therian said:
I don't have time to read all the posts but why is it that when the rich pay taxes it is stealing, when others do, it is their duty. I remember when I was in Iraq, we were constantly reminded that it was a HONOR and a PRIVILEGE to DIE for our country, But it is a BURDEN for the rich to pay taxes to the country. At the time I would have gladly changed places with the rich. I would have loved to see them bitch then, I wonder if it still would have been a privilege? Why is it that the rich always seemed to be able to circumvent the draft, or if they were drafted they always managed to obtain a cushy position far from any actual armed combat?


Steal a six pack from the grocery store and spend years in jail, steal hundreds of millions and ruin the lives of investors, use your political influence which you have bought and paid for and get off scott free, or on the extremely rare occasion, get placed in a comfortable "white collar" prison with tennis courts and yoga classes. The trade offs don't seem to be so bad when considering the influence associated with extreme wealth.


Why is OK for the rich to steal from the extreme poor?  In my state the governor passed legislation to give corporations another 2 Billion in tax breaks. How does a state pay for this? Easy just cut funding to schools, cut unemployment benefits, and enact new taxes on the retired. Yes, I'm sure corps couldn't survive without breaks paid for by the elderly on fixed incomes, and the unemployed. As a matter of fact the repubs have passed legislation cutting the unemployment benefits to pay for tax breaks for the ultra rich. Who better to pay for their tax breaks than those that cannot find work, and ultimately have their only lifeline, which was paid for THEM while they were working, given to the corps. I know the bankers which have given themselves BILLIONS in bonuses must be starving without taking unemployment benefits from the impoverished. They are flat out stealing from the poor. At least when the gov. has stolen from the SS fund they retirees still got their money, when they gave these tax breaks to the corps, the unemployed got jack shit. Their money was stolen from them and given to the rich.

BTW the corporations don't pay for all the roads and social programs in this country, and no we aren't biting the hand that feeds us. As I have previously stated of the total revenue collected by the federal government, ONLY 7%, yes seven percent is collected from corporations. Also, two thirds, (67%) of all corporations pay NO TAXES AT ALL. NONE. The common misconception that the corps are paying everything while us peons are non paying parasitical leaches is completely false. Do you know any people that made 14 BILLION last year and paid no taxes? Not only did GE pay nothing, they actually got millions back. Sounds like one hell of a return for paying off your congressman.




I want to start by thanking you for your service to this country, it is a very hard and stressful job, not just for you but your loved ones as well.

What you miss though is that it is not the place of our government to provide education, roads, or health care for individuals. The proper role for them is national defense and mitigating contracts, and at a state and local level to provide police. When you say that the wealthy get off easier than others you are correct, it is not because they are rich though, it is because politicians whom want the money they have, are willing to give them breaks for it. The reason this happens is the politicians fault, if we had a proper government this would not happen, regardless of wealth if you commit a crime you would pay for it.

I would like to know the source of your claim that corporations only pay 7% of the nations tax burden, do you forget about all the money they pay in sales tax, property tax, capital gains tax, investment tax, unemployment benefits ( that should not exist ), and charitable donation taxes? The amount of tax they pay on the profits they earn are far beyond what you think.

A tax break is not stealing, it is giving the rightful owners of the wealth they produced the freedom to spend it as they please. Also Social Security is little more than a legalized ponzi scheme. The government has absolutely no way of paying the money currently owed to people through this program without borrowing it from other nations. We should not have S.S., medicare, or medicaid, they are all ponzis perpetrated by the feds for the "GREATER GOOD", what they really mean by that is whomever they see fit. I would like to see these numbers though, especially the one about 67% of corporations paying no taxes, since the vast majority of those would be privatley owned small bussiness made up of regular folks like you and I.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: Icelander]
    #14618985 - 06/15/11 06:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Therian said:
Quote:

Nah dude you're wrong.  What makes you think ill believe any of that?  Now let me twist your words into something that wasn't said.  Dumbass.




Care to elaborate boy genius? What exactly am I wrong about? Yes, why don't you twist my words, like I do your mothers nipples. She tells me if I twist counter-clockwise it will make her infected gutter whore hole tighter. Of course she lied, why did I ever believe her? P.S. tell her thanks for the crabs!  Dumbass!

Moderator edit:  Please do not insult other forum members.  This is prohibited by the rules.

-Johnm214






It's a good thing this forum doesn't have moderators.:thumbup:

Who have balls I mean.:lol:



It's a tough line most of the time but this is clearly over it.  It isn't slyly insinuating that somebody is an idiot nor is it even simply overtly calling somebody an idiot.  The asshole should be banned.  For a little while, anyway.


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14619051 - 06/15/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I have to agree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14619281 - 06/15/11 07:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
He comes here and gives me a warning after I hit the whistle on the thread.  What a joke.





I'm having trouble understanding your objection here.  I am always open to reversing my decisions, but your going to have to actually make a coherent argument that I was incorrect or that there's some reason I should have done something else.  It does seem like you called another poster a dumbass with apparently malicious intent, so I'm fairly certain you've violated the rules.

As for your point that you 'hit the whistle', so what?  What did you think was going to happen when you report a thread to a moderator?  They are going to read it.... If you don't want a moderator looking at your posts, it would be a good idea to not call their attention to the thread they're in :thumbup:

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OfflineShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14619443 - 06/15/11 08:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

closed veil said:
u sir, are the one being absurd.




Right.

What a well thought out and coherent rebuttal.




I bet it took him hours to write that masterpiece.



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OfflineShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: memes]
    #14619474 - 06/15/11 08:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Therian said:
Quote:

Nah dude you're wrong.  What makes you think ill believe any of that?  Now let me twist your words into something that wasn't said.  Dumbass.




Care to elaborate boy genius? What exactly am I wrong about? Yes, why don't you twist my words, like I do your mothers nipples. She tells me if I twist counter-clockwise it will make her infected gutter whore hole tighter. Of course she lied, why did I ever believe her? P.S. tell her thanks for the crabs!  Dumbass!

Moderator edit:  Please do not insult other forum members.  This is prohibited by the rules.

-Johnm214






It's a good thing this forum doesn't have moderators.:thumbup:

Who have balls I mean.:lol:



It's a tough line most of the time but this is clearly over it.  It isn't slyly insinuating that somebody is an idiot nor is it even simply overtly calling somebody an idiot.  The asshole should be banned.  For a little while, anyway.






Until you realize that this guy said what I've been arguing from fifteen pages.  Is this serious? You can't be serious.  You don't really think that I think this dude is a dumbass?  Do you?

Italicized, asshole? Hahaha oooook nothing to see here



Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
Nah dude you're wrong. 



Lemme guess..... DEMOCRAT!



icould tell by your sound debate skills



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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
PhungiPharmer
Male

Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 240
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the "rich" is ok? [Re: johnm214]
    #14620059 - 06/15/11 10:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
He comes here and gives me a warning after I hit the whistle on the thread.  What a joke.





I'm having trouble understanding your objection here.  I am always open to reversing my decisions, but your going to have to actually make a coherent argument that I was incorrect or that there's some reason I should have done something else.  It does seem like you called another poster a dumbass with apparently malicious intent, so I'm fairly certain you've violated the rules.

As for your point that you 'hit the whistle', so what?  What did you think was going to happen when you report a thread to a moderator?  They are going to read it.... If you don't want a moderator looking at your posts, it would be a good idea to not call their attention to the thread they're in :thumbup:




Damn it, calling the people in whom you know are the peace keepers and are there to deal with  these matters actually doing their job. How dare you, lol. Funny how they want you to persecute others, but since they told you about it they should get a pass. I hope you can sleep at night, hahaha. Keep up the good work mods! :smile:

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Therian]
    #14620082 - 06/15/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Therian said:
I don't have time to read all the posts but why is it that when the rich pay taxes it is stealing, when others do, it is their duty. I remember when I was in Iraq, we were constantly reminded that it was a HONOR and a PRIVILEGE to DIE for our country, But it is a BURDEN for the rich to pay taxes to the country. At the time I would have gladly changed places with the rich. I would have loved to see them bitch then, I wonder if it still would have been a privilege? Why is it that the rich always seemed to be able to circumvent the draft, or if they were drafted they always managed to obtain a cushy position far from any actual armed combat?


Steal a six pack from the grocery store and spend years in jail, steal hundreds of millions and ruin the lives of investors, use your political influence which you have bought and paid for and get off scott free, or on the extremely rare occasion, get placed in a comfortable "white collar" prison with tennis courts and yoga classes. The trade offs don't seem to be so bad when considering the influence associated with extreme wealth.


Why is OK for the rich to steal from the extreme poor?  In my state the governor passed legislation to give corporations another 2 Billion in tax breaks. How does a state pay for this? Easy just cut funding to schools, cut unemployment benefits, and enact new taxes on the retired. Yes, I'm sure corps couldn't survive without breaks paid for by the elderly on fixed incomes, and the unemployed. As a matter of fact the repubs have passed legislation cutting the unemployment benefits to pay for tax breaks for the ultra rich. Who better to pay for their tax breaks than those that cannot find work, and ultimately have their only lifeline, which was paid for THEM while they were working, given to the corps. I know the bankers which have given themselves BILLIONS in bonuses must be starving without taking unemployment benefits from the impoverished. They are flat out stealing from the poor. At least when the gov. has stolen from the SS fund they retirees still got their money, when they gave these tax breaks to the corps, the unemployed got jack shit. Their money was stolen from them and given to the rich.

BTW the corporations don't pay for all the roads and social programs in this country, and no we aren't biting the hand that feeds us. As I have previously stated of the total revenue collected by the federal government, ONLY 7%, yes seven percent is collected from corporations. Also, two thirds, (67%) of all corporations pay NO TAXES AT ALL. NONE. The common misconception that the corps are paying everything while us peons are non paying parasitical leaches is completely false. Do you know any people that made 14 BILLION last year and paid no taxes? Not only did GE pay nothing, they actually got millions back. Sounds like one hell of a return for paying off your congressman.




Damn Therian, that was a good post!  :thumbup:

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
:laugh2:  :lolsy:

Nah dude you're wrong.  What makes you think ill believe any of that?  Now let me twist your words into something that wasn't said.  Dumbass.


Moderator Edit:

Please do not insult other forum members, such as by calling them a "Dumbass".  Please review the site and forum rules.

Thank you,

-Johnm214




Johnm214 - If you've been reading ShroomyJohn's posts, you'd know that he actually agrees with Therian's point of view, and simply posted what he "expected" the reply was going to be:

    - :laugh2:  :lolsy:  - zappa
    - "Let me TWIST your words into something that WASN'T said."  - pileus
    - "dumbass"  - lds

I agree with ShroomyJohn - if history is anytthing like the future, that's almost exactly what the upcoming rebuttal will look like.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/16/11 12:42 AM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14620693 - 06/16/11 01:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
What you miss though is that it is not the place of our government to provide education, roads, or health care for individuals in my opinion.




Fixed that for ya.

What you miss is that it is EXACTLY the place of our government if that's what the people want it.  If you don't think these fit under general welfare, please tell us why.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
I would like to know the source of your claim that corporations only pay 7% of the nations tax burden, do you forget about all the money they pay in sales tax, property tax, capital gains tax, investment tax



Good point.  When you take those other things into account, Corporate taxes accounted for about 9 percent of all federal revenue in 2010.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
unemployment benefits ( that should not exist in my opinion)



Fixed that for ya again.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
and charitable donation taxes



:dudewtf:

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Social Security is little more than a legalized ponzi scheme. The government has absolutely no way of paying the money currently owed to people through this program without borrowing it from other nations.



That's not true at all.  They simply need to eliminate the wage cap (stop giving a break to those earning over $106,800), and social security will immediately have a HUGE surplus.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
We should not have S.S., medicare, or medicaid in my opinion



Fixed that for ya yet again.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/16/11 01:37 AM)

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Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14620786 - 06/16/11 02:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Johnm214 - If you've been reading ShroomyJohn's posts, you'd know that he actually agrees with Therian's point of view, and simply posted what he "expected" the reply was going to be:

    - :laugh2:  :lolsy:  - zappa
    - "Let me TWIST your words into something that WASN'T said."  - pileus
    - "dumbass"  - lds

I agree with ShroomyJohn - if history is anytthing like the future, that's almost exactly what the upcoming rebuttal will look like.





Ok, so he was being sarcastic and was mocking what he saw to be a likely reply? 

Is this correct?

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
PhungiPharmer
Male

Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 240
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #14620875 - 06/16/11 02:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
What you miss though is that it is not the place of our government to provide education, roads, or health care for individuals in my opinion.




Fixed that for ya.

What you miss is that it is EXACTLY the place of our government if that's what the people want it.  If you don't think these fit under general welfare, please tell us why.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
I would like to know the source of your claim that corporations only pay 7% of the nations tax burden, do you forget about all the money they pay in sales tax, property tax, capital gains tax, investment tax



Good point.  When you take those other things into account, Corporate taxes accounted for about 9 percent of all federal revenue in 2010.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
unemployment benefits ( that should not exist in my opinion)



Fixed that for ya again.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
and charitable donation taxes



:dudewtf:

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Social Security is little more than a legalized ponzi scheme. The government has absolutely no way of paying the money currently owed to people through this program without borrowing it from other nations.



That's not true at all.  They simply need to eliminate the wage cap (stop giving a break to those earning over $106,800), and social security will immediately have a HUGE surplus.

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
We should not have S.S., medicare, or medicaid in my opinion



Fixed that for ya yet again.




Falcon you just do not get it, majority rule is not the proper role of government. It is not for making the majority comfortable, it is for providing defense and mitigating contracts. Once again I ask you, if 51% say it is ok to have sex with your wife should the feds line up a public gangbang? And please do not respond with that bullshit, no way that would happen response. Regute your own 51% bulshit response, please! IT HAS HAPPENED IN THIS COUNTRY BEFORE, REMEMBER SLAVERY?  You said whatever 51% say is what they should do. So is it ok if we have sex with her? NO, it is still immoral and we would be violating her rights as a human being.

I guess these companies run themselves? The CEO, and the board, the employees pay no federal income tax huh? They are ran all by robots whom do not take wages, right?

So you worked for a company for a year and they should have to pay you for two years in unemployment? Wow, not at all a moocher are you Falcon, do you even believe in working for yourself? Because once again, rich only get richer, and poor get poorer. Like Mark Cuban, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs, all people who started rich and got richer right? They do not pay any taxes, not state, local or federal right?

And why should the people pay on ore than 106000 thousand? They would never get the money they pay in back. Oh that is right you deserve it because you earn them money. They never gave you the opportunity to earn any wealth right? Maybe you should have worked harder and smarter, you would have gotten more in return, but that is right, you earned Siemens HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS! WOW! You should start a business, but you cannot, they only gave you a 25% raise! Cuban saved tips from bartending to start his investments, and he is a billionaire. That does not happen in America though, you said so.

How are they not ponzis? If every person that had paid in asked for the money back right now could the feds pay it? Not even close, they would issue IOUS, you know worthless pieces of paper. Almost like dollars. The idea of a ponzi is take from one investor and pay another with that money. What does the government do differently? NOTHING! You still do not get it, you think that the feds should be like an overgrown mom and dad that have a gun at their disposal to et what they want, stop paying taxes and see how long it takes to be killed, just like jaywalking. DO it and refuse the punishment, you die. Just like not paying the IRS, you do not pay, you refuse to be imprisoned for not giving your life away and you DIE!

Remember how you felt betrayed and like you got fucked on that 25% raise? When you should have gotten what 59%? Or McDonalds should have paid you $10 an hour? Well you should pay me half of what you make, same logic as yours, you can still earn a profit right? No problem since you earn hundreds of millions. Get a life, you need to earn wealth for yourself, not earn it on the back of anothers life. Maybe we can discuss this when me and the 50.9% of americans come over to have sex with your dog, I mean wife, sorry.

I only wish tha you could be a man of the mind, so that you could see the effects first hand of this, yet you never will be. You will always be on the back of others, afraid to stand on your own. But hey that is the American way right?

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OfflineShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14621448 - 06/16/11 08:12 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Didn't you tell him to quit his job earlier, and now you say he's "not working hard enough."


" Get a life, you need to earn wealth for yourself, not earn it on the back of anothers life.

Except, he's not trying to get wealthy off of government assistance.  To even raise the notion that somebody could get wealthy off of government is a farse (except wallpaper street, bailed out banks, big pharmacy etc).  The real problem is that the issue is completely opposite of what you say.  Government would NOT be assisting nearly as many people of people at the bottom were making livable wages.  Did you know that one day of bush era tax cuts would help feed 600,000 people for a YEAR?  One day of the level of taxes these companies are SUPPOSED to be paying.  If ammending tax codes so a company isnt required to pay what they are supposed to isn't the EXACT SAME concept of government assistance you so vehemently oppose, then I would love to be told why.

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
PhungiPharmer
Male

Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 240
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14621941 - 06/16/11 10:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
Didn't you tell him to quit his job earlier, and now you say he's "not working hard enough."


" Get a life, you need to earn wealth for yourself, not earn it on the back of anothers life.

Except, he's not trying to get wealthy off of government assistance.  To even raise the notion that somebody could get wealthy off of government is a farce (except wallpaper street, bailed out banks, big pharmacy etc).  The real problem is that the issue is completely opposite of what you say.  Government would NOT be assisting nearly as many people of people at the bottom were making livable wages.  Did you know that one day of bush era tax cuts would help feed 600,000 people for a YEAR?  One day of the level of taxes these companies are SUPPOSED to be paying.  If amending tax codes so a company isn't required to pay what they are supposed to isn't the EXACT SAME concept of government assistance you so vehemently oppose, then I would love to be told why.




I did say that if he did not think he was being paid enough he should quit, yes I did, earning "wealth" is not getting "wealthy" on government assistance. No notion was raised that anyone gets wealthy from government assistance.

Who cares if Bush tax cuts, i.e. we are not going to steal as much money from you now as we were before, could feed 600,000 for a day? I bet if we took 40% of your personal belongings that we could sell them off and feed a couple villages in Africa, but it is NOT our place to do so. Amending tax codes to allow a company to keep the money they EARNED would be just that. For it to be government assistance then the company would have to be receiving actual dollars from the government, all an amended tax code would do is let them KEEP THEIR OWN MONEY! Do you not understand that?

If someone is not making a livable wage it is usually their fault, and  it is usually one of two things, they are not willing to do the work required or they are not living within their means. Very, very rarely can one not support their own life by working. What would you define as a livable wage Shroomy? Having enough money for a big steak dinner once or twice a month while you drink some ice cold beer, watch tv and have internet access on a personal computer, in a house that you own? DO you need a nice car as well? With a dog and three kids?

If Falcon wanted to start a company like Siemens he would have continued working for them, accumulating the wealth he was creating, and started his own company. Instead he quit, because they gave him a measly 25% raise, how dare they! It is his fault he dose not make as much money as he thinks he is worth, either because his self worth is grossly inflated, or he has not been willing to make himself a more valuable commodity.

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OfflineShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14622358 - 06/16/11 12:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Could feed 600,000 for a YEAR.  One day of normal tax levels.  One day, for one year.  You have a pretty convolutee definition of wealth if you think that food assistance programs are giving "wealth". 

And it is such bullshit to think "if someone wants to make a livable wage they can.  My mom was telling me than when she was young, when her dad was unable to work due to cancer, they had to go on food assistance programs.  You gonna take kids out of school and put them to work?  You want a mother to work 80 hrs a week while her husband is dying of cancer and there are 6 kids to take care of?





Seeing as minimum wage leaves you below the poverty line.... I would ask you what you consider a livable wage?  I guess working 60 hours a week to barely make it above "poverty" is a fair gig, huh?  Not doing the work required?  Maybe like working 120 hours a week so you can make the wage of an "average" American while doing 300% of the work?  While your 3 bosses make that money just to tell you what to do? 



Its also highly misleading to say mark Cuban started on tips.... very very misleading.

You're still talking about gang banging somebody's wife? Have you realized the ridiculousness of the hypothetical situation of somehow convincing 51% of Americans to rape a woman?  I'm sorry you don't like democracy, but that's just how it works.  Find one non-democratic nation you would want to live in.  Then move there because democracy is apparently just too shitty to handle.  Also find one nation without taxes (those dirty theiving governments "stealing" from you), and lets see some quality of life standards they have there.


All it is is red Herring arguments to try to shift the attention from your greedy self and your complete lack of humanity.  You can get rich in America, but you don't ever have to say thanks.  Sounds like all the people I DONT associate with.

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OfflineChuangTzu
starvingphysicist
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14622761 - 06/16/11 01:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
Could feed 600,000 for a YEAR.  One day of normal tax levels.  One day, for one year.  You have a pretty convolutee definition of wealth if you think that food assistance programs are giving "wealth". 




It seems like you're the one with the convoluted idea of wealth.  Wealth is not "richness", it is merely control of resources.  Food and money are both resources and with food assistance programs, control over both is being transferred from one party to another.  This is "giving wealth".

Quote:


And it is such bullshit to think "if someone wants to make a livable wage they can.  My mom was telling me than when she was young, when her dad was unable to work due to cancer, they had to go on food assistance programs.  You gonna take kids out of school and put them to work?  You want a mother to work 80 hrs a week while her husband is dying of cancer and there are 6 kids to take care of?





Why do you presume that anyone wants these things?  You're trying to assert that your method of attempting to alleviate these problems is the only way and that if someone disagrees, then they want these things to occur. 

Quote:


Seeing as minimum wage leaves you below the poverty line.... I would ask you what you consider a livable wage?  I guess working 60 hours a week to barely make it above "poverty" is a fair gig, huh?  Not doing the work required?  Maybe like working 120 hours a week so you can make the wage of an "average" American while doing 300% of the work?  While your 3 bosses make that money just to tell you what to do? 





Who defines the poverty line?  I lived on $5000/year for years.  That is the equivalent of working 40 hours a week at $2.40/hr.  I was hardly in poverty and was actually quite comfortable.  I was also undisciplined and careless.

Quote:


You're still talking about gang banging somebody's wife? Have you realized the ridiculousness of the hypothetical situation of somehow convincing 51% of Americans to rape a woman?  I'm sorry you don't like democracy, but that's just how it works.  Find one non-democratic nation you would want to live in.  Then move there because democracy is apparently just too shitty to handle.  Also find one nation without taxes (those dirty theiving governments "stealing" from you), and lets see some quality of life standards they have there.





There are safeguards in any democracy to prevent mob rule and systematic rights violations (like mom rape) from occurring.  These safeguards include a clear delineation of the powers of the government and the rights of the people.  They often (nearly always) also include a system of representation rather than direct democracy.  Why do these constraints on government power exist?  Because it is widely recognized that unchecked mob rule leads to unjust outcomes.  By constraining the government within these bounds, the potential for crazy ideas based on emotions or fads from having a direct effect on policy is minimized.  In the US, the powers of the federal government were specifically very limited, even more-so than most other democracies in existence today.  Take a glance at the federalist papers some day.

Quote:


All it is is red Herring arguments to try to shift the attention from your greedy self and your complete lack of humanity. 




Those are bold assertions.

Quote:

You can get rich in America, but you don't ever have to say thanks.  Sounds like all the people I DONT associate with.




You sound a bit testy, perhaps?

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 days
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14622806 - 06/16/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.rxpgnews.com/suicide/Poorest_people_are_at_Highest_risk_of_Suicide_1799_1799.shtml

Poor people are at a higher risk of suicide.

Yet, we can watch and say 'let these assholes work for their money, while the CEO who they work for is making an average of 430 times what he/she makes'

Come on, you have to be naive to think that this sort of nonsense is just in a society where the more money you have, the more money you can make.

There is a reason we have instilled into law 'minimum wage' and it has to do with stopping wealthy people from simply getting wealthier.

Likewise, the minimum wage could easily be double in most developed countries and there be no negative consequences to both the society and to those wealthy motherfuckers profits.

Instead of them making 430 times more on average, they make 230 times.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


Edited by AlphaFalfa (06/16/11 02:00 PM)

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OfflineShroomyJohn
Stranger
Registered: 09/13/10
Posts: 1,085
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14622848 - 06/16/11 01:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Your plan is the same "redistribution of wealth" (and really, you're going to call food assistance wealth?) , but instead of flowing down to the vast majority of Americans,  your redistribution makes it surge upward to the elite. 


" There are safeguards in any democracytoprevent mobrule and systematic rights violations (like mom rape) from occurring. Thesesafeguards include a clear delineation of the powers of the government and the rightsofthe people. Theyoften(nearlyalways) alsoinclude a system of representation rather thandirect democracy. Whydothese constraints ongovernment power exist? Because it is widely recognized that unchecked mob rule leads to unjust outcomes. By constraining the government withinthese bounds, the potential for crazy ideas based on emotionsor fads from having a direct effectonpolicyisminimized. Inthe US,the powers of the federal government were specifically very limited, evenmore-sothanmostother democracies in existence today. Takea glance atthe federalistpapers someday." (I don't know why my phone is fucking up pasting that with spaces between words lol)


I agree, but people seem to be double dipping.  The same people that argue states rights argue marijuana should still be illegal because of the federal CSA is in place.  But when they want to detain and deport illegal immigrants they claim states rights (I'm using Arizona as an example here, but the hypocrisy is not limited to one political party or state).  There would he drastic change if our government were truely limited by the powers only granted to them explicitly in the constitution.

" Who defines the poverty line? I lived on $5000/year for years. That is the equivalent of working 40 hours a weekat$2.40/hr. I was hardlyinpovertyand was actuallyquite comfortable. I was also undisciplined and careless."

That is a lie.  A down right lie.  Or a half truth, but even then... the way you represent yourself is completely misleading.  When was this that you supposedly lived "for years" without any assistance whatsoever, on 5000/yr?


Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
http://www.rxpgnews.com/suicide/Poorest_people_are_at_Highest_risk_of_Suicide_1799_1799.shtml

Poor people are at a higher risk of suicide.

Yet, we can watch and say 'let these assholes work for their money, while the CEO who they work for is making an average of 430 times what he/she makes'

Come on, you have to be naive to think that this sort of nonsense is just in a society where the more money you have, the more money you can make.




Unfortunately it isn't naivety.  It is greed.  Their idea of "just" isn't like ours, because "just" is replaced by "just one more dollar and I might be happy"

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Why do so many people think stealing more from the [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14622905 - 06/16/11 02:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Let me see here.  The CEO works and gets paid what his employer agrees to pay him.  As a consequence he pays around half of what he makes in taxes.  The loser junkie bum doesn't work, doesn't pay taxes, breeds with several women/men but demands he/she gets his/her the progeny's needs met.  And the CEO is greedy? 

The free market for labor is never going to be equal because most people are lazy, talentless cyphers.  If they show up at all.  Subsidizing bumitude creates bums.  Daniel Patrick Moynihan, liberal giant, understood this. 

Although I have never been paid to play baseball I do not begrudge the people who make fortunes doing it.  They are way better players than I am.


--------------------

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