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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14617010 - 06/15/11 11:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Indians had no sense or understanding of property rights, what the military did was protect American citizens and property rights.

This one is priceless. :rofl2: Broken treaties anyone?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflinePileusSonofGalt
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Registered: 05/19/11
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: Icelander]
    #14617033 - 06/15/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Even after the treaties had been signed Indians would routinely hunt on land not specified in said treaty, that is an act of aggression. What happened with the Indians was completely handled the wrong way, but they did not own the land, they simply used all the land they wanted. Most tribes were nomadic, and the ones whom did stay settled did not claim to own the land, simply that they lived there. And closed, how can you take something that they themselves did not own? If you say these are not my mushroom supplies and trays, when I take them can you stop me? No, because they are not yours.

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Offlinebroken
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14617053 - 06/15/11 11:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

a treaty can only be made between 2 countries. once the treaties were signed the land belonged to the nation, they did not believe in ppl owning land, but they as a nation, did have the rights of said land promised in the treaty. we invaded their country and took the land. which is something u said we never did. admit u are wrong.


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:willynilly:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14617057 - 06/15/11 11:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:lol: Our way or the highway right.  God created property rights when he created humans and the dinosaurs they ride.

They occupied those lands and maintained territories with other Indians tribes. We made treaties which included phrases like as long as the water flows and the grass grows and we broke them illegally as the courts have sometimes acknowledged. No matter what they may or may not have done.

Actually I can take anything  I want from you by force if I can and that is also a god given right and supersedes property rights. 

And to say our military was only protecting US citizens is really an amazing stretch of the imagination.

So lets just be honest and say we took it cause we could and quit with the bull shit lame justifications.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (06/15/11 11:45 AM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: broken]
    #14617062 - 06/15/11 11:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
your understanding of history is convoluted, and u obviously know nothing of at least two of the events i have listed. also you, contradicted yourself, yet again...

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:... We simply do not and have not ever invaded another country for exploitation, history will back me on this, of mineral rights, property, or people. You are simply wrong in insinuating we do and or have.

Indians had no sense or understanding of property rights, what the military did was protect American citizens and property rights.





so it was OK to take the indians land because they didn't "understand property rights"? we still invaded and took the land, which is something u said we never did. so which is it? stop contradicting yourself.

in the battle of wounded knee we attacked the oglala lakota on their reservation (their country) who where conducting a religious ceremony. at least 150 men, women, and children were killed. in the end, most of the land was taken and their right practice their own religion was outlawed. so much for freedom of religion.

in the great sioux uprising, german settlers where forming a town (mankato, MN) on a indian reservation. also the gov't was not providing the rations promised in the treaty and indians were starving. when the indians tried to drive out the settlers, the US gov't invaded their country. in the end, not only was all the land seized, but also the largest mass execution in US history took place, when 38 men where hung all at once, for protecting their homeland and their people.


let alone what u said about the spanish american war and civil war was completely wrong.

stop contradicting yourself and admit you are wrong on this one.




This is all you got in response to my query?  The Indians, the Confederate slave owners and the Spanish in the Mexican American War.  Did you know that the Indians waged fairly regular wars for conquest against other Indians and that the Spanish, well, how did they get Mexico anyway?  I won't even bother pointing out that the Confederate States of the America were an illegal organization.

You're busted.  You made up bullshit and you can't back it up so you move goalposts.  First it was sweatshops in Vietnam and now this stupidity.


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Offlinebroken
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14617095 - 06/15/11 11:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

what am i busted on? stating historical facts? get lost, u never say anything but: 'your wrong, i'm right!' my daughter is more mature then u, and she isn't even in pre-school.


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:willynilly:

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Offlinebroken
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: PileusSonofGalt]
    #14617103 - 06/15/11 11:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PileusSonofGalt said:
Even after the treaties had been signed Indians would routinely hunt on land not specified in said treaty, that is an act of aggression. What happened with the Indians was completely handled the wrong way, but they did not own the land, they simply used all the land they wanted. Most tribes were nomadic, and the ones whom did stay settled did not claim to own the land, simply that they lived there. And closed, how can you take something that they themselves did not own? If you say these are not my mushroom supplies and trays, when I take them can you stop me? No, because they are not yours.





well, using your logic, Canada could claim Glacier National Park. it doesn't belong to anyone.


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:willynilly:

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14617111 - 06/15/11 11:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What resources did we expropriate through military action from Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Serbia?




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Offlinebroken
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14617129 - 06/15/11 12:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

dood, any thing and every thing i say u will just disagree with, with no proof what so ever. u may be the first user i put on ignore.


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:willynilly:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: broken]
    #14617150 - 06/15/11 12:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Get over it.  Debate or find something else to do.  Don't expect him to be convinced a wit more than you are convinced by his arguments. Which by the way he usually has one and can produce some evidence for his views.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinebroken
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: Icelander]
    #14617174 - 06/15/11 12:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i am debating, and i am finding something else to do. and he has produced no evidence for his views regarding this manor, and simply dismisses the evidence i have provided. that is not debating, it's arguing.


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:willynilly:

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: broken]
    #14617186 - 06/15/11 12:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
dood, any thing and every thing i say u will just disagree with, with no proof what so ever. u may be the first user i put on ignore.



If you say, "Obama is a fucking moron", I will not disagree with you.  If you say, "Frank Zappa was a great musician", I will agree with you.  But when you write utterly nonsensical parrot posts I will hammer you.  The unfortunate thing for you is that almost everything you post is a parroted bit of nonsense gleaned from the more deranged and defective fringe of contemporary thought.  ESPECIALLY the nonsense about the Indians.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: broken]
    #14617192 - 06/15/11 12:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
i am debating, and i am finding something else to do. and he has produced no evidence for his views regarding this manor, and simply dismisses the evidence i have provided. that is not debating, it's arguing.



You haven't presented any evidence to answer my question.  None.


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Offlinebroken
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14617228 - 06/15/11 12:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

no. i have provided historical facts that u dismiss.

the only moron in politics i can think of is GHWB. they are all however, in my opinion, puppets. frank zappa was nothing without the mothers. just as george clinton is nothing without the p-funk.

i have done a lot of reading about wounded knee and the great sioux uprising. i would love for u to prove me wrong. try, provide some facts as i have done.

gotta pack for the MN gathering. i won't be back until sunday, u have lots of time to read up on these events.


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:willynilly:

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Offlinebroken
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14617237 - 06/15/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You haven't presented any evidence to answer my question.  None.





i was clearly addressing PileusSonofGalt, that is why i quoted him.


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:willynilly:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: broken]
    #14617267 - 06/15/11 12:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

frank zappa was nothing without the mothers.


What? What? What?  My God man can you even hear what comes out of your mouth?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinebroken
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: Icelander]
    #14617290 - 06/15/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

musical taste is a strange thing my friend, imagine a world where we all liked the exact same music. rather boring wouldn't u say?

for the record i have 6 frank zappa albums. their ok.


--------------------
:willynilly:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: broken]
    #14617327 - 06/15/11 12:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Doesn't matter if you like Zappa or not. However saying he was nothing without the rest of the band is so fucking wrong. Check out his double album Shut up and Play your Guitar for a taste of his solo genius. 

You said he was nothing without them. :rofl2: 

While I don't disagree with everything you say here, your presentation sucks, you won't often back your claims, and you lose credibility when you go over the edge such as your Zappa statement. Not to mention you are always fucking whining. :hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (06/15/11 12:43 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: Icelander]
    #14617642 - 06/15/11 01:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Doesn't matter if you like Zappa or not. However saying he was nothing without the rest of the band is so fucking wrong. Check out his double album Shut up and Play your Guitar for a taste of his solo genius.




Triple album!
Quote:

 

You said he was nothing without them. :rofl2:




The Mothers were a rotating agglomeration of mostly studio musicians who did exactly as they were told.  By Frank.
Quote:

 

While I don't disagree with everything you say here, your presentation sucks, you won't often back your claims, and you lose credibility when you go over the edge such as your Zappa statement. Not to mention you are always fucking whining. :hissyfit:




I asked a specific question and he gives a nonsense answer that has nothing to do with it.  Because he can't.  Wounded Knee?  That has nothing to do with the US militarily expropriating resources in the places I mentioned.  AIM and Russel Means can go fuck themselves.


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OfflineShroomyJohn
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Re: Please let the Bush tax cuts expire. [Re: broken]
    #14617931 - 06/15/11 02:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
dood, any thing and every thing i say u will just disagree with, with no proof what so ever. u may be the first user i put on ignore.



Quote:

closed veil said:
i am debating, and i am finding something else to do. and he has produced no evidence for his views regarding this manor, and simply dismisses the evidence i have provided. that is not debating, it's arguing.





That's all it ever is, but ill be damned if you're ever wrong you'll be damn sure they'll have mountains of evidence to use against you.  Until that point though it is simply ignoring what you way and claiming your wrong.  Its humorous really:rofl:

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