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Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
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Last seen: 22 days, 11 hours
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: timelapses]
    #14596472 - 06/11/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

There are good reasons why suicide and euthanasia are taboo in any healthy society. There is a slippery slope all the way from voluntary self-euthanasia to ubasute to widow-burning to Auschwitz.

But when you think about it, suicide is not really different from any other killing. The general rule is that killing humans is wrong, but in some situations killing humans can be justified anyway. That applies to killing yourself too.

Food for thought: When we kill a beloved pet, it's called "being humane", and when we let the same pet suffer in pain until it dies a natural death it's called "being inhumane".

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Rhizoid]
    #14596527 - 06/11/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

True dat. And I have thought about it, a lot.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineNetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: ChronicSmoke]
    #14615459 - 06/15/11 01:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ChronicSmoke said:
News Flash you dont have to kill your self to feel what its like to die.


We all die.:minigun:



But it's possible that I could die without being aware of it, in which case I would never know what it feels like. :omgz:

And of course this is only something I would do if I'd reached a certain point in my life.


--------------------

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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 26 days, 9 hours
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: NetDiver]
    #14616162 - 06/15/11 07:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe you will go unaware exactly when you die, and deprive yourself of an experience you wanted but could never actually have.

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Offline4896744
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Registered: 03/06/10
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: NetDiver]
    #14616986 - 06/15/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

ChronicSmoke said:
News Flash you dont have to kill your self to feel what its like to die.


We all die.:minigun:



But it's possible that I could die without being aware of it, in which case I would never know what it feels like. :omgz:

And of course this is only something I would do if I'd reached a certain point in my life.




If you die without being aware of it, it won't matter because you will be dead. You will also have had a much easier time reaching your ultimate fate than many do.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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OfflineNetDiver
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Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
    #14622024 - 06/16/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh, I know. But right now, I'm curious. :lol:


--------------------

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Offlinedesert father
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Registered: 07/17/10
Posts: 1,102
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: NetDiver]
    #14622044 - 06/16/11 10:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

curiosity killed the cat, yes, but you are a snake.

i admire your bravery, but would it be more courageous to keep your life because of your love for others rather than to kill yourself because of your curiosity?

i understand that i know nothing about you, but does the thought that someone else might suffer grief because of your death mean enough to compel you to change your mind?

i am honestly just curious, not trying to push a belief onto you.


--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: desert father]
    #14622087 - 06/16/11 11:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)


Take the closet homosexual for example; the reason alot of the time they dont come out is because it would hurt their family dramatically.


Wouldn't be more accurate to say the there family chooses to be hurt by their actions?  They could also choose not to be hurt and accept them with love for who they really are.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (06/16/11 02:23 PM)

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: desert father]
    #14622423 - 06/16/11 12:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

desert father said:
curiosity killed the cat, yes, but you are a snake.

i admire your bravery, but would it be more courageous to keep your life because of your love for others rather than to kill yourself because of your curiosity?

i understand that i know nothing about you, but does the thought that someone else might suffer grief because of your death mean enough to compel you to change your mind?

i am honestly just curious, not trying to push a belief onto you.





The same could be said with breaking up or rejecting somebody.

Many times I have seen women/men who cheat and break others hearts, only to be stricken with grief when the person they cheated on rejected them.

Lastly, you cause people sadness on a daily basis. There will always be people who do not benefit from what you love and want to do.

Take the closet homosexual for example; the reason alot of the time they dont come out is because it would hurt their family dramatically.

But at which point does ones own happiness becomes more important than anothers???

You see, that is the major problem when people say 'dont kill yourself because it will hurt others'

What they fail to realize is that what they are saying is 'suffer for other people'.

Hence such a big problem with this thinking.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
    #14623005 - 06/16/11 02:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Alfalfa said:

Take the closet homosexual for example; the reason alot of the time they dont come out is because it would hurt their family dramatically.


Wouldn't be more accurate to say that their family chooses to be hurt by their actions?  They could also choose not to be hurt and accept them with love for who they really are.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinedesert father
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/10
Posts: 1,102
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14624782 - 06/16/11 07:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

like i mentioned i don't know the poster at all, was just curious on his particular opinion on the matter because he was the one who so courageously decided his fate.

you're right, suffering for others is an inevitable part of survival.

you work together, suffer together, you have a better chance at survival.

it is completely subjective, i don't think either decision is the right decision...i've made similar posts on this topic before not necessarily condemning any decision, murder or otherwise, because you never truly know their situation.

another reason i don't think it just to lock anyone away in a jail.

it's the big picture that you have to fix, not the problems within it that causes suffering.

if the way we're living encourages us to rape, kill, commit suicide...there's something wrong with the way we're living.

what do i (anyone else) do about it?

deal with it, because that's our instinct, to survive.


--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"

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Offlinedesert father
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/10
Posts: 1,102
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
    #14624805 - 06/16/11 07:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

idk if you're directing your post at me, but yea, you're right.

they should be accepted for who they are, because are they really any better or worse than you or I?

no, we're all the same, we're all human, and are all guilty of crimes against each other, whether that be lust, jealousy, anger....(not to get judeo on you guys).

but seriously, we should treat each other with respect, especially your family.


--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 days
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
    #14624877 - 06/16/11 08:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Alfalfa said:

Take the closet homosexual for example; the reason alot of the time they dont come out is because it would hurt their family dramatically.


Wouldn't be more accurate to say that their family chooses to be hurt by their actions?  They could also choose not to be hurt and accept them with love for who they really are.




They choose to believe that homosexuality will land you in hell? I doubt that sincerely.

I doubt anyone chooses to believe in hell because we are always looking for ways to make life easier for ourselves and if hell never existed to some people who feel it does, I am sure they would breath a sigh of relief because they would not feel that they could never fail so much that they land themselves to burn for an eternity. Fall into temptation, etc.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14624917 - 06/16/11 08:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

They choose to believe that homosexuality will land you in hell? I doubt that sincerely.


Are you saying we have no choice in what we believe? No free will?  Why do some believe in hell and others not?

I once believed in hell and now I do not.  I also once believed that others could hurt me with their words and deeds (apart from physically harming me) and now I do not. I believe I have a choice in the matter and I exercise it at times.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 26 days, 9 hours
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: desert father]
    #14625060 - 06/16/11 08:35 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"but seriously, we should treat each other with respect, especially your family."

What is respect?

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
    #14625082 - 06/16/11 08:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I don't need respect.  I just need to do my thing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offline4896744
Small Town Girl
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Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: xFrockx]
    #14625108 - 06/16/11 08:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
"but seriously, we should treat each other with respect, especially your family."

What is respect?




Respect is the label humans give to what is basically one human being societies definition of "nice" to another human being. The human performing the "nice" actions would be considered to be respecting the other human. You seem to have a lot of trouble with understanding language don't you?


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
    #14625397 - 06/16/11 09:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

So everyone feels the same actions are nice?

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: Icelander]
    #14625927 - 06/16/11 11:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
They choose to believe that homosexuality will land you in hell? I doubt that sincerely.


Are you saying we have no choice in what we believe? No free will?  Why do some believe in hell and others not?

I once believed in hell and now I do not.  I also once believed that others could hurt me with their words and deeds (apart from physically harming me) and now I do not. I believe I have a choice in the matter and I exercise it at times.




You did, I agree, but does that mean that others do?

Have you ever heard of the saying "You can never realize, what you don't realize you need to know in order to come to realize what you don't?"

Do you believe that free will has more influence over our decisions than education? And since I doubt you do, why do you say that these people who believe in hell and have not been educated otherwise, CAN and have the opportunity to realize that it doesn't exist out of their own free will when clearly education is far more potent in changing peoples minds than their own will?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 days
Re: Suicide compared to a natural death. [Re: 4896744]
    #14625938 - 06/16/11 11:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

xFrockx said:
"but seriously, we should treat each other with respect, especially your family."

What is respect?




Respect is the label humans give to what is basically one human being societies definition of "nice" to another human being. The human performing the "nice" actions would be considered to be respecting the other human. You seem to have a lot of trouble with understanding language don't you?




:facepalm:

I can guarantee that you and I don't have the same definition to respect.

Define it for us instead of whining - this is a forum of deep discussion, you would be naive to think that we all have the same definitions for things like respect.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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