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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: Cups]
#14562452 - 06/04/11 10:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cups said:
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Grapefruit said:
UG owns all other philosophers and spiritualists. 
So why don't you listen to him?
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Grapefruit said: "Anything I do to help would only add to your misery--that is all. By continuing to listen to me you merely heap one more misery upon those you already have."
I don't read any teachings at the moment but I see UG's philosophy as purpose built minefield of thought. To take a few quotes in explanation.
"My interest is not to knock off what others have said (that is too easy), but to knock off what I am saying. More precisely, I am trying to stop what you are making out of what I am saying. This is why my talking sounds contradictory to others. I am forced by the nature of your listening to always negate the first statement with another statement. The second statement is negated by a third, and so on. My aim is not some comfy dialectical thesis, but the total negation of everything that can be expressed."
"Until you have the courage to blast me, all that I am saying, and all gurus, you will remain a cultist with photographs, rituals, birthday celebrations and the like."
And a Jim Morrison: "Listen, real poetry doesn't say anything; it just ticks off the possibilities. Opens all doors. You can walk through anyone that suits you."
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: soldatheero]
#14562467 - 06/04/11 11:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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soldatheero said:
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UG owns all other philosophers and spiritualists.
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You mean he owns all other philosophers and spiritualists who you know of and whos opinions you agree with.. right? pretty bold claim
Christ, don't take things so seriously. It's just an opinion. Sounds like something in this thread has threatened your self image in some way.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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soldatheero
lastirishman


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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: Grapefruit]
#14562504 - 06/04/11 11:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh so I shouldn't take your opinion seriously, gotcha
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: soldatheero]
#14562543 - 06/04/11 11:12 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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It should be obvious to you that it's just a subjective favourite and I wasn't being serious. It's like critizing someone saying they have a favourite musician. You even left out the symbol when quoting me. Hows that for distortion?
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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JackofSpades
Peace



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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: Grapefruit]
#14562588 - 06/04/11 11:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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@ Icelander, I actually find UG's philosophy comforting. Its so goddamn simple, there isn't any bullshit...Its the stuff like practicing rigid ethics and meditating 15 hours a day for 100 lifetimes that makes me afraid, feeling as if I'm stuck in samsara for what might as well be an eternity. UG's is just like give the fuck up and see the truth in simplicity and forget what everyone tells you, including me!
But yeah, UG is awesome stuff
--------------------
 If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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foliocb
always running



Registered: 07/14/08
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: JackofSpades]
#14562609 - 06/04/11 11:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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JackofSpades said: @ Icelander, I actually find UG's philosophy comforting. Its so goddamn simple, there isn't any bullshit...Its the stuff like practicing rigid ethics and meditating 15 hours a day for 100 lifetimes that makes me afraid, feeling as if I'm stuck in samsara for what might as well be an eternity. UG's is just like give the fuck up and see the truth in simplicity and forget what everyone tells you, including me!
But yeah, UG is awesome stuff 

-------------------- ^v^
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: soldatheero]
#14562970 - 06/05/11 01:29 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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soldatheero said:
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personally and subjectively. IMO the guy is amazingly honest for a teacher. He's not telling you what you want to hear so you can feel ok under your blankets
It's ironic because IMO it is likely that you only like him because his philosophy agrees with yours or you like him because he tells you what you want to hear.
Well there can be truth to that except he's telling me things I never wanted to hear or to be true.
All my life I was hoping and counting on love being the answer. But you don't always get what you want.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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JackofSpades
Peace



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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: Icelander]
#14563163 - 06/05/11 03:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I feel like love/peace is more the reward rather than the solution. I would't count it out but its like making food, you need to work with the ingredients, which can suck (cutting onions always burns the shit out of my eyes) but then you put it all together and you get a super delicious pizza that is
--------------------
 If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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HeartAndMind



Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 1,410
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: Icelander]
#14563342 - 06/05/11 05:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Depends what you mean under word love, seems like you define it as something to happen as you please, which is more desire bound and not what really present moment brings. Most spiritual teachings refer to love as surrendering to present moment, letting it be as it is.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: HeartAndMind]
#14563579 - 06/05/11 08:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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There are moments in my life when I am able to surrender to what is. It's a relief so I understand what you are saying. However there is still no evidence that this is the "meaning" of existence. And in a real sense surrendering is something that happens to you
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (06/05/11 08:15 AM)
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HeartAndMind



Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 1,410
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: Icelander]
#14563831 - 06/05/11 09:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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What evidence you need of your existence? You exist, how else question 'I do not exist' arise? There must be some seeing to advocate thought or saying 'I do not exist'. That aware seeing alone is pure existence. So only you can bring evidence to your existence in that sense, and everyone else to theirs. Because, it's matter of experience.You can't prove it other ways because experience always underlays thoughts and intellectuality.
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And in a real sense surrendering is something that happens to you
Yes, but it happens only if you let it. There's no one else that can do it for you.
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: HeartAndMind]
#14563895 - 06/05/11 09:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Icelander is not asking if he exists. He is asking if love is the "purpose" of existing. Completely different questions.
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HeartAndMind



Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 1,410
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: laserpig]
#14563923 - 06/05/11 10:04 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Pardon my english then.
In that sense I don't think that there's any meaning to existence.
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JackofSpades
Peace



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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: HeartAndMind]
#14564445 - 06/05/11 12:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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HeartAndMind said: Pardon my english then.
In that sense I don't think that there's any meaning to existence.
Bullshit! Whatever meaning I apply to my existence is as equally valid as any theoretical evolutionary goal or the reasonings of any patriarchal god who ruled the universe and told us the point.
The meaning comes from you and from within yourself. This is the basic argument of existentialism
--------------------
 If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: JackofSpades]
#14564467 - 06/05/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sure, if you want meaning... take it and make it. But perhaps that's in conflict with the reality of your interests and it feels like a lie. Who knows? I sure don't. It's your show.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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HeartAndMind



Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 1,410
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: Grapefruit]
#14564521 - 06/05/11 12:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Bullshit! Whatever meaning I apply to my existence is as equally valid as any theoretical evolutionary goal or the reasonings of any patriarchal god who ruled the universe and told us the point.
The meaning comes from you and from within yourself. This is the basic argument of existentialism
Exactly. The meaning is own only, it's not from the world or reality.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: laserpig]
#14564852 - 06/05/11 02:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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laserpig said: Icelander is not asking if he exists. He is asking if love is the "purpose" of existing. Completely different questions.
Right.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P

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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: Icelander]
#14613496 - 06/14/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Open question: is there any difference between the philosophy of U.G. Krishnamurti, and nihilism?
I'm not that familiar with nihilism, but this seems awful close from what I understand.
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JackofSpades
Peace



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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: laserpig]
#14614958 - 06/14/11 10:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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laserpig said: Open question: is there any difference between the philosophy of U.G. Krishnamurti, and nihilism?
I'm not that familiar with nihilism, but this seems awful close from what I understand.
Yes, UG talks about how if a person is living life then they have a purpose, those who are sitting around questioning it are dead in his eyes. He sort of sounds like Nietzsche at times, which is why you might interpret him as not having values but like Nietzsche his values are totally in a person who just does what they do because that is there life and it requires no deeper meaning...at least thats what I got out of it..
--------------------
 If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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AlphaFalfa
imagine


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Re: UG Krishnamurti -- provocative spiritual thinker [Re: laserpig]
#14615543 - 06/15/11 01:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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laserpig said: Thanks to a post by LSDenthusiast, I just learned of a Krishnamurti even more provocative than the Krishnamurti I already knew about. Not Jiddu Krishnamurti, but Uppaluri Gopala Krishnamurti, or UG.
I can't speak for him better than he can, so here are what I consider to be his most potent quotes (taken from Wikipedia). I'm hoping that you might take the time to read some of them, then contemplate on them a bit and tell me what you think, agree/disagree, etcetera. This guy seems well worth a discussion.
On "reality:"
"We have invented reality. You have no way of experiencing reality at all except through the knowledge that society has put in you. There may not be any such thing as reality, let alone 'ultimate reality.' I do have to accept the fact that you are a man, that she is a woman. There it stops. What is this 'reality' you are talking about?" - UG Krishnamurti (paraphrased)
haha, this guy makes no sense. Jeezus fuck....hahahaha. What a gong show!
First we invent reality. Then we have no way of experiencing reality without societies beliefs. Yet we invent it??? If by me he doesn't mean culture, then this guy just compleltley contradicted himself....how can this possibly make sense to anyone????
On thought:
"We don't seem to realize that it is thought that is separating us from the totality of things."
"The only way for anyone who is interested in finding out what this is all about is to watch how this separation is occurring, how you are separating yourself from the things that are happening around you and inside you. Actually there is no difference between the outside and the inside. It is thought that creates the frontiers and tells us that this is the inside and something else is the outside."
" (Questioner:) So we keep coming back to this point that thought itself seems to be the enemy, the interloper... " (UG:) "It is our enemy. Thought is a protective mechanism. It is interested in protecting itself at the expense of the living organism."
" (Q:) You are saying that thought is the thing that causes people's worries... " (UG:)"It's thought that is creating all our problems and it is not the instrument to help us solve the problems created by itself."
On nature:
"The fundamental mistake that humanity made somewhere along the line, was to experience this separateness from the totality of life. At that time there occurred in man this self-consciousness which separated him from the life around. He was so isolated that it frightened him. The demand to be part of the totality of life around him created this tremendous demand for the ultimate. He thought that the spiritual goals of God, truth, or reality, would help him to become part of the 'whole' again. But the very attempt on his part to become one with or become integrated with the totality of life has kept him only more separate. Isolated functioning is not part of nature. This isolation has created a demand for finding out ways and means of becoming a part of nature. But thought in its very nature can only create problems and cannot help us solve them."
"Nature does not imitate anything. It does not use anything as a model."
On the human body:
"When I use the term 'natural state' it is not a synonym for 'enlightenment', 'freedom', or 'God-realization' and so forth. Not at all. When the totality of mankind's knowledge and experience loses its stranglehold on the body, the physical organism, then the body is allowed to function in its own harmonious way. Your natural state is a biological, neurological and physical state."
"When once it throws out everything that has been put in there by your filthy culture, this body will function in an extraordinarily intelligent way. It can take care of everything."
On God:
"To me the question of God is irrelevant and immaterial."
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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